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IAF, IN vs PAF: Aircaft Inventory Situation

vishwambhar

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Smaller space to defend means your forces wont be stretched thin
Only in case you are enjoying a number advantage..... You can't do that to large enemy with numbers too in his favour....

Smaller space can be congested with multiple attacks from various directions by an enemy with numbers..... Smaller enemy with lesser numbers will be forced to defend only thus allowing enemy ground forces thrust into its Deep.... Let alone attacking larger territory inside enemies bigger landmass.....
I wish you read and understand your post in view of history of PAF vs IAF .... History including February, 2019 indeed.
If Feb 19 skirmish is a YARDSTICK for you to judge an outcome of full blown war with India then good luck to PAF.....
 

vishwambhar

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Israel is said to be barely 50 miles wide, a jet fighter can cross it in minutes but guess what....smaller airspace means you can concentrate on every mile of it.
You should check how many times Indian airspace gets violated both by China and Pakistan every year without any reaction from the IAF.
Israel won those wars with superior technology with huge western support ( I'm not at all degrading Israel capacity and victory) as well as preemptive strikes on those countries who were really not well trained during that time..... War doctrine Israel used in those war was a surprise for them and something unexpected...... about violations of airspace even India can do that....
 

Huffal

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Only in case you are enjoying a number advantage..... You can't do that to large enemy with numbers too in his favour....

Smaller space can be congested with multiple attacks from various directions by an enemy with numbers..... Smaller enemy with lesser numbers will be forced to defend only thus allowing enemy ground forces thrust into its Deep.... Let alone attacking larger territory inside enemies bigger landmass.....


If Feb 19 skirmish is a YARDSTICK for you to judge an outcome of full blown war with India then good luck to PAF.....
65 and 71 air wars... Thats all i have to say for it
 

vishwambhar

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65 and 71 air wars... Thats all i have to say for it
65-71 India was not which it is today..... Apart from what actually these Air wars did something for you which is so special? Loosing an eastern flank?

You may have scored more air victories but you boast about it when such victories have done something for you like Israel got out of it..... Otherwise it doesn't add any value to it.....
 

Huffal

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65-71 India was not which it is today..... Apart from what actually these Air wars did something for you which is so special? Loosing an eastern flank?

You may have scored more air victories but you boast about it when such victories have done something for you like Israel got out of it..... Otherwise it doesn't add any value to it.....
They blunted your ground forces offensives, which ultimately stopped you from gaining victory. In the east it was 16vs150. In the west no such advantage exists. Learn the difference
 

Keysersoze

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Thank you - It will be equipped with AESA, right?

What are your thoughts on the production numbers? Will it be enough in the face of IAF arming themselves quite considerable and older PAF aircraft needing retirement?
If you take a look at the list you need to account for the fact that a large chunk of those planes either needed replacing years ago (MIG21s-- 104) are due to be replaced like the Jaguars (110)now that the upgrade program is not happening. The IAF sqaudron numbers are dropping like crazy and won't be at full strength for a number of years. The MIG21s were due to be retired 2017 (If not earlier)

In the meantime the PAF is replacing legacy platforms with the JF17
Has 10-12 AEW platforms that could have 2 + planes in the air for 24hrs for extended periods
Has upgraded EW platforms (The IAF found that out in 2019)
Obtained 40 more F16's
Has HARM capability with the MAR/1and Chinese systems
Stand off capability with multiple systems
A2A refueling capability
Better pilot to plane ratios
Fewer types meaning better logistics 4 vs 7

Who do you think has planning to? the country with falling numbers?
 

ziaulislam

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How effectively can China replenish PAF resources that are lost in war? I think this will play an important factor. Even if China does not directly open a front with India, they will fully open their inventory to support Pakistan :unsure:
Thats a big assumption
My guess is china will pressurize pakistan to end the war

The first and foremost imp role of china is regional stability for its own prosperity

India is a big market
 

IblinI

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Thats a big assumption
My guess is china will pressurize pakistan to end the war

The first and foremost imp role of china is regional stability for its own prosperity

India is a big market
55 billion US dollars trade annually is like a tiny drop of water from our total trade, big country yes, but big market, no.
 

Keysersoze

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Only in case you are enjoying a number advantage..... You can't do that to large enemy with numbers too in his favour....

Smaller space can be congested with multiple attacks from various directions by an enemy with numbers..... Smaller enemy with lesser numbers will be forced to defend only thus allowing enemy ground forces thrust into its Deep.... Let alone attacking larger territory inside enemies bigger landmass.....


If Feb 19 skirmish is a YARDSTICK for you to judge an outcome of full blown war with India then good luck to PAF.....
I love the arrogance! I hope it is common amongst Indians!
 

KaiserX

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IAF will not be defending an airspace 5 times that of Pakistan. PAF has no reach in central or southern India and in fact most of the fight will be over the same airspace, contested mostly over Pakistan and some of it over the adjoining areas of India.

What Z-10s? Are you thinking Cobras of 1980s will survive in the field against IA AD? Those 34 Apaches (12 for IA) are better than all the Cobra and the 4 Hinds we have. This doesnt include the HAL LCH they are building or the dozen or so Hinds IAF has or the armed version of their ALH, Rudra.

They also have a huge fleet of 200+ Hips, 15 Chinooks, 120+ Dhruv, not even including their nearly 10-1 advantage in fixed wing transports to support their twice large army.
So India is not 5 times larger than Pakistan? India being 5 times larger means it has larger airspace to defend.

Larger airspace= requires more coverage for the same amount of results.

Fighter jets arent made to be detected. Tactics are there to utilize various entry points into enemy airspace to surprise the enemy and accomplish the mission.

What difference do so many transport helis make for Pakistan you fool? 75% of Pakistans population centers/army resources are within 100 miles of the indian border :D Pakistan has a world class highway/road/rail network that it would utilize to get soldiers/equipment to the frontline.

You act as if IA transport helicopters would dare venture into Pakistan without air cover meaning more targets.

India does not have 200+ Hips nor does it have 34 apaches. Pakistan today has 40+ cobras, 4 Z10s (gifted by China), and 12 Mi35p (with another 5 on order). So your info is wrong from the start :D At the end of the day circ 2025 PA would still be reasonably expected to have according to the current plan:

- 40 Upgraded Cobras
- 4/40 Z10Ms (Depending on whether Ataks orders are delivered)
- 25 MI35P
- 30??? Turkish Atak (Current deal is on hold. If it doenst go through PA will order 36 Z10Ms)

Pakistan will still have close to 100 attack helis. at current rate Pakistan will also have 200+ UCAVs by 2025 and would be considered amongst the worlds top 5 drone powers. Just watch :pakistan:
 

Huffal

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India does not have 200+ Hips nor does it have 34 apaches. Pakistan today has 40+ cobras, 4 Z10s (gifted by China), and 12 Mi35p (with another 5 on order). So your info is wrong from the start :D At the end of the day circ 2025 PA would still be reasonably expected to have according to the current plan:

- 40 Upgraded Cobras
- 4/40 Z10Ms (Depending on whether Ataks orders are delivered)
- 25 MI35P
- 30??? Turkish Atak (Current deal is on hold. If it doenst go through PA will order 36 Z10Ms)

Pakistan will still have close to 100 attack helis. at current rate Pakistan will also have 200+ UCAVs by 2025 and would be considered amongst the worlds top 5 drone powers. Just watch :pakistan:
48 cobras are old and nearing their end of life.

4 z10 i thought were there only for trials and given back afterwards?

30 t129, as much as i hate to say this, it aint haopening :(

25 mil mi35m. 25?i thought only 9.

Z10ME more or less coming yes.
 

Wood

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Thats a big assumption
My guess is china will pressurize pakistan to end the war

The first and foremost imp role of china is regional stability for its own prosperity

India is a big market
Indian demand for Chinese goods may fall in the short term, but the strategic gains (for China) in getting rid of India from Kashmir will more than make up for it. From the Chinese perspective, the trade with India is not as significant as that with ASEAN or US.

Indian consumers depend on low priced goods from Chinese manufactures for affordability. Indian businesses also depend on Chinese imports to sustain their business. As a result, India does not have the typical leverage a big customer could expect to have over China. India may halt imports from China for a brief period, but within months GOI will be under internal pressure to reverse that decision.

I'm sure that the Chinese are aware of this. I think that the Chinese will refrain from directly attacking India; but they will do everything they can to aid Pakistan. They will do so openly.

India's only hope in such a scenario would be to completely rely on US for material support. American support will not come cheap and India will have a heavy price to pay for it.
 
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GriffinsRule

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So India is not 5 times larger than Pakistan? India being 5 times larger means it has larger airspace to defend.

Larger airspace= requires more coverage for the same amount of results.

Fighter jets arent made to be detected. Tactics are there to utilize various entry points into enemy airspace to surprise the enemy and accomplish the mission.

What difference do so many transport helis make for Pakistan you fool? 75% of Pakistans population centers/army resources are within 100 miles of the indian border :D Pakistan has a world class highway/road/rail network that it would utilize to get soldiers/equipment to the frontline.

You act as if IA transport helicopters would dare venture into Pakistan without air cover meaning more targets.

India does not have 200+ Hips nor does it have 34 apaches. Pakistan today has 40+ cobras, 4 Z10s (gifted by China), and 12 Mi35p (with another 5 on order). So your info is wrong from the start :D At the end of the day circ 2025 PA would still be reasonably expected to have according to the current plan:

- 40 Upgraded Cobras
- 4/40 Z10Ms (Depending on whether Ataks orders are delivered)
- 25 MI35P
- 30??? Turkish Atak (Current deal is on hold. If it doenst go through PA will order 36 Z10Ms)

Pakistan will still have close to 100 attack helis. at current rate Pakistan will also have 200+ UCAVs by 2025 and would be considered amongst the worlds top 5 drone powers. Just watch :pakistan:
I think I explained it pretty easily but how about this question ... in time of war, which enemy aircraft would the IAF be putting fighters over Kerala to safeguard its airspace there from?

As for helos we have 0 Z-10s and only 4 Hinds ... and no credible source of more orders yet. And my information on IAF and IA Apaches is very easy to find.

IAF transports wont have to come into Pakistan but move their soliders and equipment to the front line on short notice and move from one area of operation to another. Anyways since you know it all so I am sure everything will just be dandy
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

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An ideal condition is to lease the Bagram air base in Afganistan!!! And, place there the following for a back-up:
AWACS & EW ( ASELSAN HAVA-SOJ type)
Long range AD
Ultra long range radars (Turkish 600km range type)
Tankers
JF-17s and J-10s
HALE UAVs (Bayraktar Akinji type with full loads to complement A2G missions)
 

VkdIndian

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I think I explained it pretty easily but how about this question ... in time of war, which enemy aircraft would the IAF be putting fighters over Kerala to safeguard its airspace there from?
That’s correct analysis. Air Defence is planned based on threat perceptions. Peninsular part of India doesn’t have any Air Threat as of now. Hence, that area doesn’t need need much of air cover as of now. As Chinese Naval Air Arm builds up, it would need to be recalibrated. That work has also started with increase in these capabilities in the Andmans and few Air Bases in the south.

In current situation western and north, north eastern borders remain the main concern.

With current AD capabilities in the region, use of transports in offensive role is almost ruled out. They might be used for special ops but that would be very limited and with adequate control of the air space for that operation.
 

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