What's new

IAF Chief: Balakot strike redefined use of Air power, IAF inducted new BVR missiles

Myth_buster_1

ELITE MEMBER
Mar 17, 2008
8,500
2
7,893
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Meteor is superior to PL-15 because it uses ramjet engine whereas PL15 still uses older tech of dual pulse engine which means not only Meteor has a superior no escape zone but it also is capable of terminal stage manuevers.

More importantly since next war is going to happen no later than Mar-Apr 2022, which means at that time PAF will have only 16 PL-15 equipped JF-17 BLK3 whereas IAF will have all 36 Rafales.


No new type of missiles were purchased in 2011.
If the war is going to be with only 16 JF and 36 Rafales then yes we will lose, happy?

https://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers
(500) RVV-AE/AA-12 Adder-BVRAAM-2012-2013
 

Wood

FULL MEMBER
Mar 30, 2013
332
0
189
Country
India
Location
Canada
If the war is going to be with only 16 JF and 36 Rafales then yes we will lose, happy?

https://www.sipri.org/databases/armstransfers
(500) RVV-AE/AA-12 Adder-BVRAAM-2012-2013
RVV-AE seems to be export variant of the older models, no? These are the ones with 80 Km range I think. The new ones are RVV-SD, supposedly even keel with C5s.

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/air-to-air-missile/rvv-ae/

But the fact that IAF went for an A2A missle with 80 KM range when its principal adversary had a range of 110K confounds me to no end! :hitwall:

More importantly since next war is going to happen no later than Mar-Apr 2022, which means at that time PAF will have only 16 PL-15 equipped JF-17 BLK3 whereas IAF will have all 36 Rafales.
Where do you get this from?
 

ziaulislam

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 22, 2010
14,706
10
13,882
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Meteor is superior to PL-15 because it uses ramjet engine whereas PL15 still uses older tech of dual pulse engine which means not only Meteor has a superior no escape zone but it also is capable of terminal stage manuevers.

More importantly since next war is going to happen no later than Mar-Apr 2022, which means at that time PAF will have only 16 PL-15 equipped JF-17 BLK3 whereas IAF will have all 36 Rafales.


No new type of missiles were purchased in 2011.
Not necessary ...
Ramjet is a good idea but both USA and china noticed its short coming when compared to dual pulse rocket engines ..and thus both aborted their future super long range ramjet BVRs.

ramjets have low cycle life and difficult to maintain ..

Hence u wont see any more of those being developed by countries with higher R&D /defense budgets
 

Wood

FULL MEMBER
Mar 30, 2013
332
0
189
Country
India
Location
Canada
Not necessary ...
Ramjet is a good idea but both USA and china noticed its short coming when compared to dual pulse rocket engines ..and thus both aborted their future super long range ramjet BVRs.

ramjets have low cycle life and difficult to maintain ..

Hence u wont see any more of those being developed by countries with higher R&D /defense budgets
Actually, US is working on a next generation BVR with Ramjets

https://www.iiss.org/blogs/military-balance/2019/10/aim-260-missile-us-air-force

China is also not to be left beind: https://www.popsci.com/chinas-new-ramjet-engine-triple-range-missiles/
 

kursed

FULL MEMBER
Mar 21, 2007
834
8
2,013
Yes. Before Feb 27th, Su-30s were ‘ram-coated’ so would have been invisible to Pakistani radars. And Su-30s had ‘look first - shoot first’ capability from hundred + miles away given their more powerful Bars radar and more powerful engines. And they were all data linked too. We have all heard these stories before and yet the score at the end of the day was something else. This is what I love about the other side, they underestimate the enemy to the point of fooling themselves into this false sense of security. :)

While in the ‘real’ world, outside of indian forums; the ‘Asian Raptor’ turned into an Amraam dodger. And they were shooting down their own birds.

By the time Rafales and Meteors come and get integrated with IAF, PAF would already have responded at its end too. IAF and their fanboys will then need a new set of excuses.
 
Last edited:

dbc

PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
Feb 1, 2009
4,216
11
4,525
Country
United States
Location
United States
Actually, US is working on a next generation BVR with Ramjets
AIM 260 will not be propelled by a Ramjet engine.

Whatever the case, in 2017, the JATM program office hired Lockheed Martin to develop the new air-to-air missile. Otherwise, there are still few details about the design. Genatempo did say that the AIM-260 will not use a ramjet, the European Meteor air-to-air missile does, and will have a similar form factor to the existing AIM-120, but did not explain how it would then be possible then to achieve a significant increase in range,
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...nd-navys-future-long-range-air-to-air-missile
 

Myth_buster_1

ELITE MEMBER
Mar 17, 2008
8,500
2
7,893
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
RVV-AE seems to be export variant of the older models, no? These are the ones with 80 Km range I think. The new ones are RVV-SD, supposedly even keel with C5s.

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/air-to-air-missile/rvv-ae/

But the fact that IAF went for an A2A missle with 80 KM range when its principal adversary had a range of 110K confounds me to no end! :hitwall:



Where do you get this from?
almost every military equipment is tweaked to customer's needs. Just because its a export variant does not mean it sucks. Take Brahmos for example, its a export version of P-800 but it is not by any means a inferior version.
Also BVR AAM missile range all depends on its accuracy more then range. Phoenix had almost 200km range but it was replaced by more advance AIM-120 which had only 60-70 km range at the time of replacement.
Also in case of Pakistan, it can not use AIM-120 to its full potential because of restriction imposed by US such as the F-16 has to remain inside PAK territory where as R-77 can be used in which ever way.
Also a missile fired off from max range gives foe plenty of time for counter measure where as foe has less time to react when attacked at medium range. It all comes down to tactics then anything else.
 

dbc

PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
Feb 1, 2009
4,216
11
4,525
Country
United States
Location
United States
Some food for thought, the turn radius of a missile weighing 1,500 lb (650 kg) with a 21’ inch diameter at an altitude of 100,000 ft flying at MACH 6 is 68 nautical miles (AoA 2 deg). This turning radius can be reduced to 18.6 nautical miles by pulling > 50 G’s at 50,000 ft. Reference NASA technical paper 2733

Granted the AMRAAM and Meteor are much smaller and weigh less...even so I expect the turning radius of a few miles at max G and max speed? Is that good enough to kill an agile fighter? I don’t think so...

I prefer guile (AMRAAM) over raw speed..
 

ziaulislam

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 22, 2010
14,706
10
13,882
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
wrong
the propulsion of aim 260 is still UNKOWN
it can be ram jet or it can be pulse engine

either way it would e an improvement on meteor design philosophy which wasn't favoured by Chinese or Americans in last 15+ years

RVV-AE seems to be export variant of the older models, no? These are the ones with 80 Km range I think. The new ones are RVV-SD, supposedly even keel with C5s.

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/air-to-air-missile/rvv-ae/

But the fact that IAF went for an A2A missle with 80 KM range when its principal adversary had a range of 110K confounds me to no end! :hitwall:



Where do you get this from?
i doubt this is what happened..IAF budget is 10X times PAF..how can they make such a stupid mistake
this would instantly mean that 76 PAF fighters outgun everything IAF has.. it is frightening prospect seeing that the fourth-gen fleet of IAF is around 350 fighters only..(not counting the very low sortie rate of su30mi per Indian sources)

than SD10 is heavier than aim 120 and is also supposed to match the range of aim 120C(per PAF which is the only country that operates BOTH) put that in equation IAF is outranged by 200+ PAF fighters..

this will explain why air chief flatly refused Modi command to engage and instead recommended missle strikes
 

Wood

FULL MEMBER
Mar 30, 2013
332
0
189
Country
India
Location
Canada
almost every military equipment is tweaked to customer's needs. Just because its a export variant does not mean it sucks. Take Brahmos for example, its a export version of P-800 but it is not by any means a inferior version.
Also BVR AAM missile range all depends on its accuracy more then range. Phoenix had almost 200km range but it was replaced by more advance AIM-120 which had only 60-70 km range at the time of replacement.
Also in case of Pakistan, it can not use AIM-120 to its full potential because of restriction imposed by US such as the F-16 has to remain inside PAK territory where as R-77 can be used in which ever way.
Also a missile fired off from max range gives foe plenty of time for counter measure where as foe has less time to react when attacked at medium range. It all comes down to tactics then anything else.
Sure, I don’t contest with any of this. Just saying that the max range for Indian R-77s that were bought in 2011 is 80 km as given by the manufacturer.

wrong
the propulsion of aim 260 is still UNKOWN
it can be ram jet or it can be pulse engine
If it’s unknown, then we cannot say that Americans have abandoned ramjet propulsion for A2A.

this will explain why air chief flatly refused Modi command to engage and instead recommended missle strikes
This is interesting. Where was this reported?
 

ziaulislam

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 22, 2010
14,706
10
13,882
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
If it’s unknown, then we cannot say that Americans have abandoned ramjet propulsion for A2A.
most reports suggest otherwise..see above link posted
Americans tried ram jet-like Europeans in 1990s..Europe went ahead and put it into development while Americans abandoned it..for the reasons mentioned above..china tried and tested it and felt it wasn't worth it..so that tell you alot of the problem
 

Mighty Lion

BANNED
Oct 3, 2018
1,740
-11
1,297
Country
India
Location
India
Ramjet is a good idea but both USA and china noticed its short coming when compared to dual pulse rocket engines ..and thus both aborted their future super long range ramjet BVRs.
Wrong
Ramjet is superior to dual pulse in every kinematic category except captive flight hours (not much of a problem since it can be solved with more money for maintenance).

By the time Rafales and Meteors come and get integrated with IAF, PAF would already have responded at its end too. IAF and their fanboys will then need a new set of excuses.
Next war will be in mid 2022 when PAF will have only 16 Pl-15 eqpd JFT BlK3 whereas IAF will have all 36 Rafales and Meteors.
On top of that we will have 1000+ RVV-SD & Astra which are superior to PAFs 500 AIM-120C5
 

Pakistani Fighter

ELITE MEMBER
Jul 4, 2011
9,107
-1
7,139
Crap

Wrong
Ramjet is superior to dual pulse in every kinematic category except captive flight hours (not much of a problem since it can be solved with more money for maintenance).


Next war will be in mid 2022 when PAF will have only 16 Pl-15 eqpd JFT BlK3 whereas IAF will have all 36 Rafales and Meteors.
On top of that we will have 1000+ RVV-SD & Astra which are superior to PAFs 500 AIM-120C5
So u are gonna throw all your Rafales towards Pakistan? :lol:
You had 240 SU 30 MKIs+60 above Mig29UPGs. Where were they on 27 Feb and 28 Feb?
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom