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How the Urdu language and literature slipped into darkness in Bangladesh

Baibars_1260

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Not necessarily, during bengal sultanate, Persian language was on of the official languages..
Thanks, that was educative...
What about the people's language ?
The language of Lalan Fakir, and Titumir... The Bauls
By which time had the language taken shape?
What was the impact of the Bengali Renaissance on the language?
 

bluesky

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No it was not lingua franca in bengal....

In what is bengal it has always been Bengali from the establishment of the sultanate system onward, after that it was farsi and then english. Urdu was imposed only for the 25 years of united pakistan.
- A little correction. Persian was the official language that stayed that way till 1830 AD when the British Indian govt replaced it with English. It shows that both Muslims and Hindus were educated in Persian and they were doing official works in Persian.

- Another correction. Urdu as well as Persian was widely spoken by the literate people of Bengal. This is because many of the Muslim elites migrated to and domiciled in Bengal from different parts of then India including present day Pakistan and Afghanistan as well as from other Muslim countries including Yemen, Qatar, Ethiopia and Eritrea during the period that started in 1198 AD and ended in 1757 AD, a very long 560 years.

- Yet, another correction. The written Bengali we know today did not exist here before 1852 when the first novel in Bengali "Karuna O Phulmonir Bibaran" was published. There is also another named, "Alaler Ghorer Dulal". Before that all were in the poetry (Purbo Bongo Geetiaka) form and not in the form of Prose or Essay. Before 1810, Bengali language/poems had no Full Stop, Coma, Colon, Semicolon and some others that were borrowed from English by the Pundits.

- Bengali language had no grammar before it was researched and introduced by Hindu Sanskrit Pundits teaching in the Fort William College in Calcutta during the1805 to 1810 period. From this point on, Bengali started its literary progress.

- Urdu is basically an Indian (not a Pakistani one) language spoken and written for hundreds of years all over the country and practiced by most people of Lucknow, Delhi, Agra, Lahore and Dhaka like cities.

- Urdu is not a foreign language to us as English is. It is a sub-continent language widely spoken throughout the north Indian belt from east to west. We need to learn Urdu to communicate with other people in this belt.
 
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Baibars_1260

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- Yet, another correction. The written Bengali we know now did not exist here before 1852 when the first novel in Bengali "Karuna O Phulmonir Bibaran" was published. There is also another named, "Alaler Ghorer Dulal". Before that all were in the poetry (Purbo Bongo Geetiaka) form and not in the form of Prose or Essay.
Fascinating...
A beautiful language...
I am fairly familiar with the Devanagari script. I have to wade through the Bengali script which I never fully mastered because its tones and phonetics are so unique.
The consonants have an attached vowel sound to them.
Devnagri " Gh" is "Gher" but the Bengali equivalent is always a "Ghaw" so what would be Ghar ( House) in Devanagari would be "Ghor" or " Ghawr" in Bengali..
If I were write Ghawr in Devanagari I would need to insert a vowel " au" between the "Gh" and "R" sound .

Getting there...😊
 
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Goenitz

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There is this dumb f.....k Pakistani here who can't speak Bangla. Your English is better. Come over and help with information for this piece of "sh...t "
It happens.. An IIT professor was on official visit to my Uni. I asked him for general guidance and pulled my id card (hanging around my neck with strip), saw my name, left it like a pendulum, and turned away his face.
 

Baibars_1260

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is that a threat chater baal?
i've been warned here bigtime because someone accused me of threatning them. let's see what the mods do now
@waz
Figure it out. Explain it to the mods.
@waz .
As a "false flagger" how would I understand the nuances of your language? :enjoy:
This is supposed to be an English language website. The topic of the thread is Urdu in Bangladesh.
Evidence of your knowledge on this topic is yet to be known, since your contribution to the thread is zero.
Please stick to writing in English if its not too much for you.😅😅
 
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Michael Corleone

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Figure it out. Explain it to the mods.
@waz .
As a "false flagger" how would I understand the nuances of your language? :enjoy:
This is supposed to be an English language website. The topic of the thread is Urdu in Bangladesh.
Evidence of your knowledge on this topic is yet to be known, since your contribution to the thread is zero.
Please stick to writing in English if its not too much for you.😅😅
whatever chater baal don't talk to me
 

bluesky

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Fascinating...
A beautiful language...
I am fairly familiar with the Devanagari script. I have to wade through the Bengali script which I never fully mastered because its tones and phonetics are so unique.
The consonants have an attached vowel sound to them.
Devnagri " Gh" is "Gher" but the Bengali equivalent is always a "Ghaw" so what would be Ghar ( House) in Devanagari would be "Ghor" or " Ghawr" in Bengali..
If I were write Ghawr in Devanagari I would need to insert a vowel " au" between the "Gh" and "R" sound .

Getting there...😊
Please note I was not talking about syllables of Bengali language, but was talking about when the essay or prose form of literature was started to be written. Syllables were there because the Poems/Poetries were being composed since many centuries ago.

A language is not all syllables and for the development and composition of this language we will have also to visit the Arakan Royal Court where Poragol Khan and Chuti Khan contributed enormously. When Persian was the Official language in Bengal Royal Court, it was Bengali that was the Official language in Arakan. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.
 
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peagle

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A language is not all syllables and for the development and composition of this language we will have also to visit the Arakan Royal Court where Poragol Khan and Chuti Khan contributed enormously. When Persian was the Official language in Bengal Royal Court, it was Bengali that was the Official language in Arakan. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.
Has Bengali influenced Urdu in any shape or form,
or, vice versa?

Thank you, truly enjoyed reading your contribution,
makes the whole period of our short history even sadder, all the drama, when there was a shared linguistic past.

Stay blessed
 

Baibars_1260

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It happens.. An IIT professor was on official visit to my Uni. I asked him for general guidance and pulled my id card (hanging around my neck with strip), saw my name, left it like a pendulum, and turned away his face.
😀
Was the gentleman by any chance wearing Khakhi shorts? I mean not the designer shorts with front pockets, but the ultra-short ones with the flared ends. Let me guess his shirt. Was it a dirty white, with half sleeves. I can certainly tell you what his cap was like. A Gandhi cap, painted black. Brown shoes, dirty white socks. Now, don't ask me how I know this?

Please note I was not talking about syllables of Bengali language, but was talking about when the essay or prose form of literature was started to be written. Syllables were there because the Poems/Poetries were being composed since many centuries ago.

A language is not all syllables and for the development and composition of this language we will have also to visit the Arakan Royal Court where Poragol Khan and Chuti Khan contributed enormously. When Persian was the Official language in Bengal Royal Court, it was Bengali that was the Official language in Arakan. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.
👍Interesting ! Enjoy reading your posts.
Never knew Bengali was the official language of the Arakan. Would that be modern day Rakhine? So do the Rohingyas speak a dialect of Bengali?
How would you explain the influence of Persian, or non-Sanskrit words in certain Bengali dialects. Example In Sylheti, the use of the word " paani " ( water ) instead of "Jol". Then the word "aboha" ( corruption of the word aab-o-hava ) for climate.

A question that has often puzzled me but no one could tell me.

How would you explain the once presence of pidgin Urdu speakers in old Dhaka ( Nawabpur, Sakharipatti, etc.) . Years back when strolling through those bylanes I could roughly understand what the people were talking. Where did this population come from?
Another point. Will be very sensitive asking this question and please decline to answer if inappropriate ( my apologies in advance).

I noticed the tiny Shia community in Dhaka were bi-lingual. They spoke fluent Bangla in public, but while attending a wedding dinner I was pleasantly surprised to see this Shia community remarkably fluent in Urdu also. They were so fluent with near perfect accents, that I felt I was back in Karachi. What is the reason for the Shia community being bi-lingual? Again ignore this question if inappropriate.
Am going through your earlier posts and may have more questions.
 

Baibars_1260

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Has Bengali influenced Urdu in any shape or form,
or, vice versa?

Thank you, truly enjoyed reading your contribution,
makes the whole period of our short history even sadder, all the drama, when there was a shared linguistic past.

Stay blessed
Very much so...
Example: Kolkata is a melting pot of Urdu and Bengal. Both Urdu and Bengali have borrowed words from each other. The Calcutta Urdu has a lot of Bengali words ( "Bati" for cup, Balish for pillow, deem for eggs, basha, or bari home, mishti, ). Likewise Bengali words for pleasure is Moja ( mazaa) , raasta ( passage), zila ( district); kharab ( ruined), shuroo ( begin), basti ( dwelling), The middle class in Kolkata are purists, but the poor folks have a lot of intermingling with different languages and cultures, because of migrant laborers, so a polyglot half Bangla half Urdu/Hindustani has developed.
 

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