• Wednesday, March 20, 2019

How should PN counter the IN Carrier Battle Group

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by Rashid Mahmood, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. Rashid Mahmood

    Rashid Mahmood MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

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    INS Vikramaditya is a modified Kiev-class aircraft carrier which entered into service with the Indian Navy in 2013.

    Originally built as Baku and commissioned in 1987, the carrier served with the Soviet Navy and later with the Russian Navy (as Admiral Gorshkov) before being decommissioned in 1996.The carrier was purchased by India on 20 January 2004 after years of negotiations at a final price of $2.35 billion.The ship successfully completed her sea trials in July 2013 and aviation trials in September 2013.
    vikramaditya.jpg
    She was commissioned on 16 November 2013 at a ceremony held at Severodvinsk, Russia.On 14 June 2014, the Prime Minister of India formally inducted INS Vikramaditya into the Indian Navy.

    INS Vikramaditya is going to be escorted by at least 2 Destroyer, 2-3 Frigates/Corvettes and around 1-2 Submarines, combine the aircraft carrier with all these ships and you get a very effective fighting force.

    INS Vikramaditya is part of Western Fleet therefore it is primarily deployed to contain a Pakistani aggression.

    Destroyers, Frigates and submarines accompanying the carrier are more than capable of sinking enemy submarines and surface vessels.

    INS Vikramaditya could launch Mig-29K to take out key ground facilities, airports and military installments or it could help IAF by attacking Pakistani fighters/interceptors from rear.

    Destroyers and Frigates are also capable of launching Surface to Surface missiles, combine it with MIG's stationed on board the INS Vikramaditya and a little help from IAF, the carrier battle group is more than capable of destroying the entire enemy military infrastructure within hours.





    The reason I posted the above introduction, is that I would like to invite a a productive discussion specifically to operate & counter the IN CBG keeping in view the existing capabilities of both adversaries.
     
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  2. maximuswarrior

    maximuswarrior ELITE MEMBER

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    In time of war a must to take it out ASAP. There must be various strategies in place to deal with this problem effectively.

    Time of peace is the time for preparation.
     
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  3. Enigma SIG

    Enigma SIG FULL MEMBER

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    Its a sitting duck. First thing to go down when war breaks out. Just overwhelm the CIWS with a barrage of standoff missiles from different angles.
     
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  4. CHACHA"G"

    CHACHA"G" SENIOR MEMBER

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    Dear sir , in my view this will be very hard , hardest job in war,,,,, They will protect it with dozens of war ships … So better we go after Indian Navy War ships only one AC cannot do much if our Navy also have their own Air wing and Air protection..
    Drowning IN ships will be more effective then going after highly protected AC .
    We have to build our Navy with time , We cannot match IN in numbers and we don't have too. We just need 12+ T-54 Frigates with 12+ Cov Mig and 4+ Type 52 Destroyers .. total 28 war ships . these will be enough for IN.
    Yes we don't have money , but I am also not saying to have them in 1 year .. take time , keep buying and building 1 each years . in 10 to 12 years we will have our numbers .

    Sir there will be dozens of IN ships protecting it …… It is and it will never going to be sitting duck. Don't forget AC also have 40+ Jest on board and non of PN ships have decent air defence on board ……..
     
  5. Enigma SIG

    Enigma SIG FULL MEMBER

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    Hence the standoff missiles. It's a big target and cannot be missed on any radar. Fire multiple rounds 200 miles apart; from the flank too. Anyway; Indian's are not going to field it knowing well it can be sunk. Phattu hain.
     
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  6. CHACHA"G"

    CHACHA"G" SENIOR MEMBER

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    No they will use it , the will park it 400 miles away , they will use dozens of other War Ships for air defence , at 400 miles they will have enough time to react any Missile attack from PN.. and keep in mind the too can hit back from 400 miles distance …………. But there other Warships wont going to have this leverage . . .
     
  7. lcloo

    lcloo SENIOR MEMBER

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    To take out a CBG, you have to ask two questions, (1) What is the primary offensive weapon of a CBG? and (2) What is the foremost thing that the commander of a CBG is afraid of?

    First one is easy, it is the MIG-29. If you have better fighter jets than MIG-29, half of your worry is gone. As for the second question, I would guess submarine attack worries the CBG commander most.

    It happened during Falkland War where British had to move HMS Hermes and HMS Invincible further out away from South American mainland after receiving reports of Argentine SSK activities in the area.

    Sinking an aircraft carrier is not easy, especially if it has powerful escorts. However, a mission kill would cause the CBG to retreat, thus eliminate the threat from the ocean side.

    A mission kill is achieved when (1) the CBG lose its effective air power (ex. losing 75% to 100% of its fighter jets) and (2) the aircraft carrier is not able to launch and recover its airpower due to damages sustained to its runway, rudder, air-control sensors or the ship is listing due to underwater damage etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
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  8. AfrazulMandal

    AfrazulMandal FULL MEMBER

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    IN will never get clearance to use her ACs.
     
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  9. newb3e

    newb3e SENIOR MEMBER

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    nuke the byach! end of story!
     
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  10. truthseeker2010

    truthseeker2010 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Mig-29 would be taken care by JF-17. For offensive, CM-400 from Air and AIP SSK from below. That is a formidable force, which will make sure IN CBG will remain in port. Otherwise IN will have to shell out most of the ships to protect its CBG, they wont take that risk in a hot conflict.
     
  11. aziqbal

    aziqbal PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Use JF17 with anti ship missiles

    Synchronised in waves

    Have a Midas tanker operating off coast of Oman for refuelling

    3 x anti ship on each thunder

    4 thunders that’s 12 missiles

    4 waves that’s 48 missiles

    Use diversion to strip away Mig29

    Have SSK nearby to finish the job

    Carriers are only good for attacking weak nations with equal foe they end up dead
     
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  12. CriticalThought

    CriticalThought SENIOR MEMBER

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    There is a fundamental assymetry between PN and IN. Per Pakistan's strategic doctrine, strategic assets are made exactly where assymetry makes defence of homeland impossible. If IN turns out in numbers, there is no logical way (barring Unseen Help from Allah the Almighty) for PN to stand a chance against IN.

    Now, if we have the luxury of initiative, then sabotage is a good option to try and put much if IN out of commission. Logistics, infrastructure, fuel, and ammo should be targets, along with any other targets of opportunity. Sabotage here subsumes espionage.

    Next, autonomous, distributed agents for offence tasked with finding and eliminating enemy assets. This saves on manpower and creates a threat the enemy is ill prepared for. Large destroyers and frigates are not designed for large swarm attacks from air, water, and sub-surface. The ones that survive will be softened.

    EW to take out their electronic eyes will be absolutely crucial. This includes space assets. Spoofing in air, surface, and sub-surface will frustrate them.

    I have been of the opinion that a large fleet of FACs should be acquired before larger ships. This provides punching power, and distributed targets for an enemy preparing for major battles.

    I have also written about the need to pose a 360 degree threat to the enemy. Pak military doctrine is woefully limited to a West to East attack vector. This gives the enemy confidence and occasion to display supremacy. Each arm needs to find methods to target Indian East coast with multiple attack elements. This raises the cost of defence for the enemy. Merely relying on missiles is not enough.

    High value targets such as aircraft carrier and nuclear submarines would cause psychological defeat. They must be found and targeted.

    The ability to engage from stand off distances greater than 400 km is necessary. Thought should be given to carrier killer ballistic missiles.
     
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  13. Khafee

    Khafee PROFESSIONAL

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    Bribe Indian navy to sink / crash it.
     
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  14. Maarkhoor

    Maarkhoor ELITE MEMBER

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    No need they do it free like they did with INS Sindhurakshak....they have mastered the art of sinking own ship without farting ohh sorry means fighting.
     
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  15. Zarvan

    Zarvan ELITE MEMBER

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    I have said it before I will say it again we need Frigates like French FREMM class which have VLS for long Range Cruise Missiles and also Submarines like AMUR 950.
    images (10).jpeg
    unnamed (1).jpg
    images (11).jpeg Plus two to three squadrons of Fighter Jets equipped with Missiles which have 1000 KM Range

    @Rashid Mahmood @aziqbal @Tipu7 @Arsalan @Sulman Badshah
     
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