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How many of you will agree that India has a big hand in spoiling the relations between Pakistan and the United States

xyxmt

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How many of you will agree that India has a big hand in spoiling the relations between Pakistan and the United States because the Indians have been putting misinformation about Pakistan in the ears of the Americans which has caused more damage to the United States. Has happened. The United States has lost the war today because of blindly believing in Indian propaganda and United States has lost possession of being a superpower i strongly believe it was Pakistan that helped the United States become the sole superpower when it defeated the Soviets.I think America has lost its best friend only because of India.In 1980s, the United States could never have become a solo superpower without the help of Pakistan, because of the Soviet defeat, the United States became alone king of the world, but now Pakistan has decided to stand with China because Pakistan knew that India was giving false information to US and American Were believing Indian lies. This create strong believe in Pakistan that United state is not trust worthy friend as China is for pakistan.By the time the Americans realized this fact, it was too late.today what Pakistan is doing for China, Pakistan did for American in 80z.
Even today, the Americans are not ready to accept the fact that Pakistan has given seventy thousand deaths only for the glory of United States.America has lost a very best friend only because of India.The United States has learned a lesson that India will never shed its blood for the United States way Pakistan has done for USA.In the end I must say United state must punish India for its lies. I think leaving India alone in Afghanistan is a prime example of punishment. Let me know what you guys think

Absolutely 110% disagree
India has her hand in destroying herself and saving Pakistan from US friendship, now they are tasting the fruits of U.S. US friendship which includes fighting US's wars and constantly being criticize. Just looks at what India has gotten after close friendship with US

- loss of trusted friendship with Russia, Russia which has vetoed any resolution against India for last 50 years, US will never do that for India.
- animosity with rising super power China
- Loss of Afghanistan
- Loss of Iran
- Last but not least, US friendship which is considered a big minus in international politics.

What has Pakistan gained from India/US relationship
- Friendship with Russia
- Even stronger relationship with China
- not lost anything with regards to US/Pakistan relationship but has only gained an upper hand, Pakistan has come out stronger in this by not taking dictates from US and instated asking US to do more.

Those were my point if what you say is true, which is not, India is no body to US. The reason for this deterioration is "Absolutely not"
 

Enigma_

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Lol.. sure. They forcibly convert or re-educate muslims and sterilize them in mass camps.
No they bomb their countries, install puppet leaders and kill millions whilst masquerading as their saviours and using institutions to project their crimes on to Muslims.
 

SQ8

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Hardly any Pakistani believes that but that's true. The lobby system in America is what India used along with its educated diaspora on high posts and heavily involved in business.
And that is really the right question to ask.. not many Pakistanis understand that America is a system. A combination state/business whose system you have to understand to get the output you desire. No Pakistani leadership ever understood the system but kept trying bad inputs to it to make it work. Israelis and now Indians do which is why they make American government structures and systems work in their interests. Very soon the Indians will have embedded themselves as well as the Israelis have in the lobbies and state structures that eventually the US could be made to bomb and raza Pakistan while the hapless Pakistanis keep talking about being betrayed at SEATO and CENTO
No they bomb their countries, install puppet leaders and kill millions whilst masquerading as their saviours and using institutions to project their crimes on to Muslims.
Compared to someone like Uday Hussain who was a celebrated and great leader privileged to pick any Iraqi woman from the street - married, unmarried, adolescent or teen and bed her? Or gas them?

Your flag was alongside all those that participated in everything you accuse the US of very rightly. So glad you took part in it as well?
 

Cash GK

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And that is really the right question to ask.. not many Pakistanis understand that America is a system. A combination state/business whose system you have to understand to get the output you desire. No Pakistani leadership ever understood the system but kept trying bad inputs to it to make it work. Israelis and now Indians do which is why they make American government structures and systems work in their interests. Very soon the Indians will have embedded themselves as well as the Israelis have in the lobbies and state structures that eventually the US could be made to bomb and raza Pakistan while the hapless Pakistanis keep talking about being betrayed at SEATO and CENTO
Bomb Pakistan. Your wish lol. You are talking about a country name pakistan which took down 2 supper powers in last 40 years it not a joke.Do you think America will be able to safe itself by fighting with Pakistan? I tell you atomic powers never fight directly with eac other they alway fight proxies. At the moment pakistan is clear winner in this proxy war. I know this was not easy win when you count 70 thousands deaths. Second when your best friend who is next supper power of the world Borders you. Clearly kingmaker
 
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Cash GK

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Absolutely 110% disagree
India has her hand in destroying herself and saving Pakistan from US friendship, now they are tasting the fruits of U.S. US friendship which includes fighting US's wars and constantly being criticize. Just looks at what India has gotten after close friendship with US

- loss of trusted friendship with Russia, Russia which has vetoed any resolution against India for last 50 years, US will never do that for India.
- animosity with rising super power China
- Loss of Afghanistan
- Loss of Iran
- Last but not least, US friendship which is considered a big minus in international politics.

What has Pakistan gained from India/US relationship
- Friendship with Russia
- Even stronger relationship with China
- not lost anything with regards to US/Pakistan relationship but has only gained an upper hand, Pakistan has come out stronger in this by not taking dictates from US and instated asking US to do more.

Those were my point if what you say is true, which is not, India is no body to US. The reason for this deterioration is "Absolutely not"
There was another very important factor which India used l. it was sympathy factor. And now Pakistan is using it rightly when you see 70 thousands deaths and 150 plus billions dollars los to economy. I always say one thing which was advised by my grandfather if your horse is stubborn make it run in cycle when it get tired then ride him. USA was more stubborn then Soviet union took 14 years n usa took 20 years.it was not easy to make them Obedient Now Russia is saying Pakistan is very important partner America will say same thing after sometimes that Pakistani is a very important partner
 

SQ8

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Bomb Pakistan. Your wish lol. You are talking about a country name pakistan took to supper powers in last 40 years not a joke.Do you think that America will be able to save itself by fighting with Pakistan? I tell you atomic powers never fight directly with eac other they alway fight proxies. At the moment pakistan is clear winner in this proxy war. I know this was not easy win when you count 70 thousands deaths. Second when your best friend who is next supper power of the world Borders you. Clearly kingmaker
Trying to make coherence of what you said.
How is America able to save itself and why does it need to save itself from Pakistan or by Pakistan ir anything to do with just Pakistan?

America sees China as an emerging threat and is intertwining India just as much as the Indian lobby here is working hard to intertwine itself for additional benefits. CPEC primarily benefits China and provides it a lifeline in case the Malacca’s and the Spralty’s become difficult for it. So if an enemy that America is trying to squeeze out has a lifeline, will America let that lifeline be? If push comes to shove they will use military force to shut it down in case of an all out war with China. They are publishing scenarios on it and training for it. Gen Tariq Khan has alluded to that in his last interview.

Top it off with another unstable or hawkish American President like Trump and add the many Indians that dot the advisory circles of republicans and state department machinery - and that new year threat from Trump will seem like a trailer.

Pakistan entered the proxy was because its leadership cabal under Musharraf was completely incompetent in terms of negotiation and cowardly in self preservation in trying to get the most out of that situation - call Nawaz Sharif what you want but that gagoo even when selling out nuclear capability to the Clinton Admin tried to land a F-16 production line in Raiwind along with the usual Fauji wishlists.

Meanwhile the Pakistani commando chief executive is boasting about using vietnam type helidrops and peak captures while doing bounties on people in his book while at the end TTP still got a stronghold anyway? So either the Pakistani military leadership were incompetent or liars or both? Was it an American that wanted peace with their brothers in Swat who were using Pakistani troop heads as footballs? Or was it an American that gave the NRO? Was Rehman Malik an American too to give visas freely ? Or was it an American who delayed the command chain response and compromised response to the may 11 raid detection?

America can do nothing to Pakistan which Pakistanis dont allow - unfortunately like the majority of Pakistanis looking to pin blame in everything from car accidents to girls being born instead of boys to overflowing gutters to theft/corruption to letting incompetent leadership be - you too are happy blaming America for looking after its interests and never understanding how to use the system to make those interests work for you.

However, whether I retain frequent visits to this forum or not or even breath in ten years.. there will be new posts on whatever state Pakistan is in then talking of appointed foreign agent civil/
Military leadership and blaming America, India, China or Timbukoo for it.
I don’t agree with many of the current PM’s (seemingly) incoherent actions but I do agree with his premise: Allah does not help any nation that doesn’t help itself - Ill add to it is to even think of helping yourself is to admit you are the cause and cure of your problems and no one else.
 

Cash GK

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Trying to make coherence of what you said.
How is America able to save itself and why does it need to save itself from Pakistan or by Pakistan ir anything to do with just Pakistan?

America sees China as an emerging threat and is intertwining India just as much as the Indian lobby here is working hard to intertwine itself for additional benefits. CPEC primarily benefits China and provides it a lifeline in case the Malacca’s and the Spralty’s become difficult for it. So if an enemy that America is trying to squeeze out has a lifeline, will America let that lifeline be? If push comes to shove they will use military force to shut it down in case of an all out war with China. They are publishing scenarios on it and training for it. Gen Tariq Khan has alluded to that in his last interview.

Top it off with another unstable or hawkish American President like Trump and add the many Indians that dot the advisory circles of republicans and state department machinery - and that new year threat from Trump will seem like a trailer.

Pakistan entered the proxy was because its leadership cabal under Musharraf was completely incompetent in terms of negotiation and cowardly in self preservation in trying to get the most out of that situation - call Nawaz Sharif what you want but that gagoo even when selling out nuclear capability to the Clinton Admin tried to land a F-16 production line in Raiwind along with the usual Fauji wishlists.

Meanwhile the Pakistani commando chief executive is boasting about using vietnam type helidrops and peak captures while doing bounties on people in his book while at the end TTP still got a stronghold anyway? So either the Pakistani military leadership were incompetent or liars or both? Was it an American that wanted peace with their brothers in Swat who were using Pakistani troop heads as footballs? Or was it an American that gave the NRO? Was Rehman Malik an American too to give visas freely ? Or was it an American who delayed the command chain response and compromised response to the may 11 raid detection?

America can do nothing to Pakistan which Pakistanis dont allow - unfortunately like the majority of Pakistanis looking to pin blame in everything from car accidents to girls being born instead of boys to overflowing gutters to theft/corruption to letting incompetent leadership be - you too are happy blaming America for looking after its interests and never understanding how to use the system to make those interests work for you.

However, whether I retain frequent visits to this forum or not or even breath in ten years.. there will be new posts on whatever state Pakistan is in then talking of appointed foreign agent civil/
Military leadership and blaming America, India, China or Timbukoo for it.
I don’t agree with many of the current PM’s (seemingly) incoherent actions but I do agree with his premise: Allah does not help any nation that doesn’t help itself - Ill add to it is to even think of helping yourself is to admit you are the cause and cure of your problems and no one else.
You misunderstood everything. Read my last post and example of horse. Around 200 years before I mean before USA soviet and British who was ruler of this world from Asia to Europe. It was Turkish people. In subcontinent it was babri Turks and in Europe it was ottoman. So they are getting back their power slowly slowly. Asia is rising n India is standing alone and USA is far from Asia. It is long game which is being played for centuries. You need to understand the bloodline of people who live in Central Asia. Then you will know the whole game. USA is very new in supper powers games around 80 years. Guwader sea port Is Checkmate for China n for its rise and if Pakistan is standing with China it is totally other level of game which is above USA head. For deep understanding you need to read the history n mentality of this region
 
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Vapour

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Think the biggest factor is the economies of Pakistan and India since the early 90s, whilst Pakistan stagnated, yes there are a myriad reasons, India gained by at least a factor of 10 in GDP over the last 30 years. This has led to India being able to expend resources both to deteriorate Pakistan and to also enhance itself, being economically sovereign means it can make largely independent foreign policy decisions for the most part. Pakistan, on the other hand, sadly, has to make convenient compromises for the majority of the time and effectively douse fires rather than strategically plan and execute.
 

Vapour

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There's a big gap between an alliance that is built on convenience and a friend. The US was never a friend of Pakistan and it never will be. Their government and people despise Islam and Muslims. Get that through your head.
This is real world, geo-politics, not the kids playground, where you can like or dislike other kids based on your personal whims and wishes. Need to think through such matters with nuance and maturity, otherwise, anyone can see the failings of the US-Pakistan relations and vent out their frustration, but does that lead to meaningful discourse?

The US does and will matter greatly in the years to come and that alone is enough reason for Pakistan to continue engaging with it, not least considering the situation in AFG.
 
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Cash GK

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Trying to make coherence of what you said.
How is America able to save itself and why does it need to save itself from Pakistan or by Pakistan ir anything to do with just Pakistan?

America sees China as an emerging threat and is intertwining India just as much as the Indian lobby here is working hard to intertwine itself for additional benefits. CPEC primarily benefits China and provides it a lifeline in case the Malacca’s and the Spralty’s become difficult for it. So if an enemy that America is trying to squeeze out has a lifeline, will America let that lifeline be? If push comes to shove they will use military force to shut it down in case of an all out war with China. They are publishing scenarios on it and training for it. Gen Tariq Khan has alluded to that in his last interview.

Top it off with another unstable or hawkish American President like Trump and add the many Indians that dot the advisory circles of republicans and state department machinery - and that new year threat from Trump will seem like a trailer.

Pakistan entered the proxy was because its leadership cabal under Musharraf was completely incompetent in terms of negotiation and cowardly in self preservation in trying to get the most out of that situation - call Nawaz Sharif what you want but that gagoo even when selling out nuclear capability to the Clinton Admin tried to land a F-16 production line in Raiwind along with the usual Fauji wishlists.

Meanwhile the Pakistani commando chief executive is boasting about using vietnam type helidrops and peak captures while doing bounties on people in his book while at the end TTP still got a stronghold anyway? So either the Pakistani military leadership were incompetent or liars or both? Was it an American that wanted peace with their brothers in Swat who were using Pakistani troop heads as footballs? Or was it an American that gave the NRO? Was Rehman Malik an American too to give visas freely ? Or was it an American who delayed the command chain response and compromised response to the may 11 raid detection?

America can do nothing to Pakistan which Pakistanis dont allow - unfortunately like the majority of Pakistanis looking to pin blame in everything from car accidents to girls being born instead of boys to overflowing gutters to theft/corruption to letting incompetent leadership be - you too are happy blaming America for looking after its interests and never understanding how to use the system to make those interests work for you.

However, whether I retain frequent visits to this forum or not or even breath in ten years.. there will be new posts on whatever state Pakistan is in then talking of appointed foreign agent civil/
Military leadership and blaming America, India, China or Timbukoo for it.
I don’t agree with many of the current PM’s (seemingly) incoherent actions but I do agree with his premise: Allah does not help any nation that doesn’t help itself - Ill add to it is to even think of helping yourself is to admit you are the cause and cure of your problems and no one else.
Sometime You have to step back to make the long jump
 

Cash GK

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Money buy friends. Simple.
American stupidity was main factor which India used for its befits and India was out smart by Pakistan. In this game first loser was USA and second loser was India. India thought she is smart but when she opened her eyes she was gang rapped by China Pakistan n Russia after party India is trying hard to register the case against those illegal fathers of her kids
 

khail007

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How could such dumb nation became a superpower, which could not analyse the strategic importance of her foreign relation?
IMO the interests of a nation determines the priorities in foreign relations, in present scenario, India is more suited (than Pakistan) to USA to pitch them against China.
 

mudas777

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How many of you will agree that India has a big hand in spoiling the relations between Pakistan and the United States because the Indians have been putting misinformation about Pakistan in the ears of the Americans which has caused more damage to the United States. Has happened. The United States has lost the war today because of blindly believing in Indian propaganda and United States has lost possession of being a superpower i strongly believe it was Pakistan that helped the United States become the sole superpower when it defeated the Soviets.I think America has lost its best friend only because of India.In 1980s, the United States could never have become a solo superpower without the help of Pakistan, because of the Soviet defeat, the United States became alone king of the world, but now Pakistan has decided to stand with China because Pakistan knew that India was giving false information to US and American Were believing Indian lies. This create strong believe in Pakistan that United state is not trust worthy friend as China is for pakistan.By the time the Americans realized this fact, it was too late.today what Pakistan is doing for China, Pakistan did for American in 80z.
Even today, the Americans are not ready to accept the fact that Pakistan has given seventy thousand deaths only for the glory of United States.America has lost a very best friend only because of India.The United States has learned a lesson that India will never shed its blood for the United States way Pakistan has done for USA.In the end I must say United state must punish India for its lies. I think leaving India alone in Afghanistan is a prime example of punishment. Let me know what you guys think
Bro's do we look at ourselves and how our rulers sold and threw themselves at the US feet so cheaply. Do we not understand a simple word meaning "Enemy". If India is our enemy then why are we so surprised what India managed to do to our relations with US, Saudi and UAE. India well planned this wedge, invested in their assets and became relevant. While we sat back made no effort to find out the conspiracy hatched against us and lost control on our rightful recognition of sacrifices. In fact our politicians asked our own ambassador Haqquani to throw dirt on military so they can be saved and how it played out in the US.
India went ahead to isolate us firstly joining hands with the Israeli lobby in the US. Secondly US thought when our rulers can be bought so cheaply why bother to buy our narrative or look after our interests too. Thirdly Indians penetration into decisions making institutions like state department, senate, congress and white house itself didn't helped. At one stage the desk on Afghan/Pakistan affairs was run by an Indian lady. Fourthly appeal of India itself of large country and attraction of big market for goods.
India took advantage of all these factors very effectively and went out to peddle their lies against us. While our treacherous Zardari's, Gillani, and Nora were busy making money where ever it was convenient for them. We even let forego small lobbies once we had at the capital hill hence we absolutely had no voice at all. On the other hand India was arranging paid protestors of 30-40 people at every occasion whenever our officials used to show up in the US about anything to everything against us. Then their disinformation labs were selling those protests stories to the US media. Pakistan officials instead of selling our wares were forced to defend themselves on that trips and our remaining voices were drowned out and media turned on our officials due to stories fed to them by the Indians. On return our officials was smarting themselves and instead of admitting we have got a problem thought as US depends on us due to access to Afghanistan their is nothing to worry about.
Then we never took any interest in the US think tanks and one can see the ratio of Indians in them and what they propagated against us. These think tanks are the major source of inputs for the state department decision making bodies.
Now the question is what we have learned from the Indian tactics and in future how we are going to counter it. Thanks to law of nature US and India have suffered the karma but next time we may not be so lucky if we don't learn to look after own interests.
 

CIA Mole

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The number of indians involved in western politics and corporate is guaranteed to cause further trouble down the road
 

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