What's new

Featured How is the Egyptian Air Force able to operate its fleet of mixed origin?

My-Analogous

SENIOR MEMBER
Feb 9, 2009
6,904
2
5,363
Country
Pakistan
Location
Saudi Arabia
To my brothers I want to stop my activity in pdf and you know why
With the best wishes for all my brothers in pdf and Arabs I'm out good luck my friends
Salam Brother, Please don't hurt and be with us. We are group of community and up and dawn is always there. Do you know when i asked JF27 delays due to corona virus one of our member stated that i am Indian :hitwall:. I born and raised in Karachi and he don't know what is is saying because if i asked delays doesn't mean that i am sabotaging JF17 and it was smart question due to situation. Anyway, i would love to see you around
Three French-made Rafale fighter jets fly with other Egyptian Air Force warplanes, unseen, above Cairo on July 21, 2015. (Khaled Desouki/AFP via Getty Images)

Egypt’s fleet of military aircraft are able to share data and coordinate activity despite their mixed origins, thanks to a locally made command center, according to an Egyptian armed forces expert.

It’s rare to witness an air force flying fighter jets and helicopters of different origins, but Egypt operates aircraft from Russia, China, the United States and European nations.

“When it comes to the Egyptian Air Force in particular, it is definitely not possible for [American-made] E-2C Hawkeye 2000 early warning aircraft in service, for example, to direct the [Russian-made] MiG-29 fighters and exchange data with them, as is the case with the [American-made] F-16 and [French-made] Rafale fighters,” said Mohamed al-Kenany, a military affairs researcher and defense analyst at the Arab Forum for Analyzing Iranian Policies in Cairo.

“However, data is being shared between the different-origin aircraft through the command-and-control centers that are equipped with dedicated systems capable of linking the various radar, aircraft, sensors, reconnaissance and electronic warfare systems, and integrating all the information and data they receive into a unified system named RISC2.”

The Radar Integration and Surveillance Command Center was made by the Egyptian military’s Research and Development Department; Benha Electronics, which is affiliated with the Ministry of Military Production; the Military Technical College; and the Egyptian Air Defense Forces.


The RISC2 is an Egyptian-made system that was introduced during EDEX 2018. (Courtesy of Mohamed al-Kenany)

The RISC2 is an Egyptian-made system that was introduced during EDEX 2018. (Courtesy of Mohamed al-Kenany)

RISC2 was introduced during the 2018 Egypt Defence Expo and is meant to automate control-and-command tasks. The platform is equipped with tools for flight planning, control systems for radars and various monitoring sensors (including models from the United States, Russia, China, France, Britain and Egypt), an automatic flight-tracking system, a network management system, and cybersecurity.

Al-Kenany said in addition to linking aircraft, the system allows the military’s land and sea combat platforms to share data.

“This system enables the dynamic exchange of integrated data with various command-and-control centers, with the next generation of cyber protection systems and firewalls ... as well as the Egyptian surface-to-air missile command center to analyze and assess the risks and air threats, and [determine] the type of air defense systems needed to deal with these threats,” he added.

He hasn’t observed any problems with Egypt’s air defense systems differentiating enemy aircraft from friendly ones. “The various types of IFF [identification friend or foe systems] produced by different companies for Egypt’s armed forces are designed to be compatible with all the systems and equipment operational in the country, and hence identifying their specific frequencies and codes as friendly, which prevents friendly fires,” he explained.

To overcome delays in data sharing, the Air Force looked to the Rafale "to link aircraft of different origins during the flight, since it is equipped not only with Link 16 data links but also with other solutions for non-NATO countries to operate in integrated operational [environments] with all platforms and with friendly combat assets, and airborne command and control, which allows it to operate in harmony with modern Russian fighters operating for the Egyptian Air Force,” al-Kenany explained.

He also pointed to Egypt’s TIBA-1 communications satellite, which was launched onboard an Ariane 5 rocket in November 2019 for government communications and military purposes. He said the satellite will facilitate data sharing between Air Force fighters and helicopter of different origins.

What is Egypt flying?

In terms of Western systems, the Egyptian Air Force currently operates 24 Rafale fighter jets (and wants to double that number), 20 F-16 Block 52 fighters, 10 AH-64D Apache Longbow helicopters (with plans to double its inventory), 15 Mirage 2000 jets, and eight early warning E-2C Hawkeye planes.

From the East, the service operates 46 MiG-29M fighter jets, 46 Ka-52 Alligator armed reconnaissance helicopters, and an unknown number of Mi-24 combat multirole helicopters, which first appeared in Egyptian service in 2018. The Air Force also ordered 24 Su-35S Super Flanker jets but has only received five so far, according to Russian media.

Russian Kamov Ka-52 Alligator attack helicopters fly over the Kremlin and Red Square in downtown Moscow on May 9, 2020. (Kirill Kudryavtsev/AFP via Getty Images)

Russian Kamov Ka-52 Alligator attack helicopters fly over the Kremlin and Red Square in downtown Moscow on May 9, 2020. (Kirill Kudryavtsev/AFP via Getty Images)

Egypt turned to Russia after the U.S. did not approve its request to acquire roughly two dozen F-35 fighter jets, an Egyptian military official told The Associated Press in 2019. The Russian deal for Su-35s was meant to diversify Egypt’s weapon suppliers because the U.S. has previously stopped military assistance over human rights concerns, said another official.

“Moving to diversify sources of military equipment and especially fighter jets is a direct consequence to embargos from specific countries, or monopoly of technology and refraining from technology transfer,” Lebanese Member of Parliament Wehbe Katicha, a retired Army general, told Defense News.

But the mixed fleet hasn’t significantly impacted training between Egypt and NATO members, al-Kenany said.

“Drills have been going on as scheduled between Egypt and NATO countries, but it is worth noting that I’ve never noticed a Russian aircraft in the drills with Western countries, or a Western aircraft in the drill with Russia. The only exception to this was the presence of Ka-52 with the mistral trainings.”


https://www.c4isrnet.com/battlefiel...s-fleet-of-mixed-origin/#.X5pv5IrtHlQ.twitter
They got this idea from Pakistan and we are the founder of such command center
 

The SC

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 13, 2012
20,925
19
21,969
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
Salam Brother, Please don't hurt and be with us. We are group of community and up and dawn is always there. Do you know when i asked JF27 delays due to corona virus one of our member stated that i am Indian :hitwall:. I born and raised in Karachi and he don't know what is is saying because if i asked delays doesn't mean that i am sabotaging JF17 and it was smart question due to situation. Anyway, i would love to see you around


They got this idea from Pakistan and we are the founder of such command center
This was made in cooperation with the US.. I mean the first system called Hors Sky Guard apart from the C4I..this is version 2 made by Egypt alone..
 
Last edited:

Gomig-21

SENIOR MEMBER
Oct 16, 2016
4,797
10
9,173
Country
Egypt
Location
United States
In some cases, psychiatrists advise their patients to write down the things that cause problems for them as a form of relief..
Yeah, 10 minutes on this forum and just about anyone is ready for an hour on the chair with a shrink! lmaooo.

And this RISC2..is V.2 ..
I kinda figured the 2 at the end referred to this being the 2nd version but wasn't 100% since the original version was a little vague to begin with and we didn't really have a full understanding of it.

That also brings me back to that thing you and I were discussing a short while ago and that was the issue the EAF was having with Saudiya and the UAE equipment in Yemen. I mean they were having some pretty serious comms and connectivity issues and it was hard to tell if it was just the result of 2 different an incompatible systems that were being used, one by Saudiy/UAE and the other with the EAF? And that was with the EAF's F-16 and they even had their block 52s there which are equipped with more modern systems than the rest of the upgraded block 40s in the fleet, yet they were having super frustrating problems. Wonder if this had some correlation to those issues they were having?

I wish I could find the article and stories about that whole ordeal. I tried but couldn't locate them and can't remember if they were in Arabic of English either. Do you remember that context?

“When it comes to the Egyptian Air Force in particular, it is definitely not possible for [American-made] E-2C Hawkeye 2000 early warning aircraft in service, for example, to direct the [Russian-made] MiG-29 fighters and exchange data with them, as is the case with the [American-made] F-16 and [French-made] Rafale fighters,” said Mohamed al-Kenany, a military affairs researcher and defense analyst at the Arab Forum for Analyzing Iranian Policies in Cairo.

“However, data is being shared between the different-origin aircraft through the command-and-control centers that are equipped with dedicated systems capable of linking the various radar, aircraft, sensors, reconnaissance and electronic warfare systems, and integrating all the information and data they receive into a unified system named RISC2.”
I wish they had a layman's version of an explanation as to how this whole setup works. For example, is the information instantous or in real time? Is it automated or are there humans interacting to process the information? How effective and efficient is it and would it be in real combat situation where time and things happen very fast. And how different is it from say a traditional system that is already set up through the same linkage in all the aircraft and the flying AWACS? So many questions!

Oh and I'm sure the Protivnik-GE and Resonance-NE is also part of all this information packing and distributing.

To overcome delays in data sharing, the Air Force looked to the Rafale "to link aircraft of different origins during the flight, since it is equipped not only with Link 16 data links but also with other solutions for non-NATO countries to operate in integrated operational [environments] with all platforms and with friendly combat assets, and airborne command and control, which allows it to operate in harmony with modern Russian fighters operating for the Egyptian Air Force,” al-Kenany explained.
So what does that mean when they "looked to the Rafale to link aircraft of different origins during flight sine it's equipped not onl with Link 16 data links, but also with other solutions...."? Did they take the data processing hardware from the Rafale and duplicate it into this ground system? This is pretty interesting, considering both the Rafale and F-16s are hooked up through Link 16. Wonder what he meant by that?

What is Egypt flying?

In terms of Western systems, the Egyptian Air Force currently operates 24 Rafale fighter jets (and wants to double that number), 20 F-16 Block 52 fighters, 10 AH-64D Apache Longbow helicopters (with plans to double its inventory), 15 Mirage 2000 jets, and eight early warning E-2C Hawkeye planes.
So this is pretty interesting, SC Bro. Why are they only mentioning the 20 F-16s blck-52? What happened to the other almost 175 F-16s LOL!? Maybe even more I don't know exactly what the current count is. But they've all been upgraded to block 40 status other than the 52s. Are they not part of this integrated system of aircraft? Strangely interesting.
 

The SC

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 13, 2012
20,925
19
21,969
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
Yeah, 10 minutes on this forum and just about anyone is ready for an hour on the chair with a shrink! lmaooo.



I kinda figured the 2 at the end referred to this being the 2nd version but wasn't 100% since the original version was a little vague to begin with and we didn't really have a full understanding of it.

That also brings me back to that thing you and I were discussing a short while ago and that was the issue the EAF was having with Saudiya and the UAE equipment in Yemen. I mean they were having some pretty serious comms and connectivity issues and it was hard to tell if it was just the result of 2 different an incompatible systems that were being used, one by Saudiy/UAE and the other with the EAF? And that was with the EAF's F-16 and they even had their block 52s there which are equipped with more modern systems than the rest of the upgraded block 40s in the fleet, yet they were having super frustrating problems. Wonder if this had some correlation to those issues they were having?

I wish I could find the article and stories about that whole ordeal. I tried but couldn't locate them and can't remember if they were in Arabic of English either. Do you remember that context?



I wish they had a layman's version of an explanation as to how this whole setup works. For example, is the information instantous or in real time? Is it automated or are there humans interacting to process the information? How effective and efficient is it and would it be in real combat situation where time and things happen very fast. And how different is it from say a traditional system that is already set up through the same linkage in all the aircraft and the flying AWACS? So many questions!

Oh and I'm sure the Protivnik-GE and Resonance-NE is also part of all this information packing and distributing.



So what does that mean when they "looked to the Rafale to link aircraft of different origins during flight sine it's equipped not onl with Link 16 data links, but also with other solutions...."? Did they take the data processing hardware from the Rafale and duplicate it into this ground system? This is pretty interesting, considering both the Rafale and F-16s are hooked up through Link 16. Wonder what he meant by that?



So this is pretty interesting, SC Bro. Why are they only mentioning the 20 F-16s blck-52? What happened to the other almost 175 F-16s LOL!? Maybe even more I don't know exactly what the current count is. But they've all been upgraded to block 40 status other than the 52s. Are they not part of this integrated system of aircraft? Strangely interesting.
I guess the solution to to the inter-comm problem would be in developing a local equivalent to Link-16..
One consequence of that comm problem was the January 2018 signing of a Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) with Washington. This agreement is legally required by the United States for it to supply encrypted communications equipment and systems to allies, enabling them to have real time, direct communications.

https://carnegie-mec.org/2019/02/28/egyptian-military-slumbering-giant-awakes-pub-78238


With the Egyptian Armed forces experience in modern warfare..the RISC2 system must be pretty sophisticated ( Apart from the C5i).. and it will be more so after receiving the Italian Satellite and maybe the French one dedicated to military reconnaissance.. most of the information about its efficacy and efficiency must be some state secret.. Why reveal how it works When USrael is watching everything closely and every move!? ..and the US itself won't even provide Link-16 for the EAF F-16 ..not even for the block 52.. as you can see only the Rafale has that..and happily other equivalent link systems!!!

It is not certain why they mentioned only the 20 Block 52..Most likely because of the avionics compatibility with the Rafale..

Maybe the rest are integrated too but as second line fighters..They are still potent though ..
One thing is for sure.. in case of war those 200 F-16 block 40 will use that Chinese conversion pod or the Russian one for BVR..using Chinese and Russian missiles.. the pods are on the market and not that expensive.. Egypt might already have bought enough of them ..just in case! ..Knowing that the US won't upgrade more than 2 squadrons to the Viper configuration.. and if that ever happens..

* The news also mentioned the Egyptian IFF standardization..

** The multiplicity and diversity of operating aircraft, intuitively, means specialization, the Rafale, the Su, the F-16 and the MiG aircraft with different characteristics, thus different missions..

There will be squadrons of one type of aircraft designated for interception, one type for close bombardment, a new type for air Superiority/supremacy and finally the spearhead of the Silent Death Rafale..

This specialization may create a certain compatibility between the aircraft of each mission, if we assume that the role of the MiG-35 as an interceptor means that about fifty MiG-35s will be used, and this seems an appropriate number to connect them together and from there connects them to the main network as a single block..

There is a great scope for development in the field of communication through the satellite network, a French communications satellite and another Russian imaging satellite, ( with the potential Italian satellite) ..which will include everything in the sea, air and land, and there will be appropriate solutions..
 
Last edited:

Philip the Arab

SENIOR MEMBER
Oct 26, 2018
5,990
6
5,149
Country
Jordan
Location
United States
@Gomig-21
I also read that Egyptian engineers at EDEX 2020 said RISCV2 can integrate a few ESR-32A with SAMs to form a SAM network. This good be good for exports as well to African countries looking to form an air defense network in the future.
 
Last edited:

The SC

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 13, 2012
20,925
19
21,969
Country
Canada
Location
Canada

Gomig-21

SENIOR MEMBER
Oct 16, 2016
4,797
10
9,173
Country
Egypt
Location
United States
I guess the solution to to the inter-comm problem would be in developing a local equivalent to Link-16..
One consequence of that comm problem was the January 2018 signing of a Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) with Washington. This agreement is legally required by the United States for it to supply encrypted communications equipment and systems to allies, enabling them to have real time, direct communications.

https://carnegie-mec.org/2019/02/28/egyptian-military-slumbering-giant-awakes-pub-78238


With the Egyptian Armed forces experience in modern warfare..the RISC2 system must be pretty sophisticated ( Apart from the C5i).. and it will be more so after receiving the Italian Satellite and maybe the French one dedicated to military reconnaissance.. most of the information about its efficacy and efficiency must be some state secret.. Why reveal how it works When USrael is watching everything closely and every move!? ..and the US itself won't even provide Link-16 for the EAF F-16 ..not even for the block 52.. as you can see only the Rafale has that..and happily other equivalent link systems!!!

It is not certain why they mentioned only the 20 Block 52..Most likely because of the avionics compatibility with the Rafale..

Maybe the rest are integrated too but as second line fighters..They are still potent though ..
One thing is for sure.. in case of war those 200 F-16 block 40 will use that Chinese conversion pod or the Russian one for BVR..using Chinese and Russian missiles.. the pods are on the market and not that expensive.. Egypt might already have bought enough of them ..just in case! ..Knowing that the US won't upgrade more than 2 squadrons to the Viper configuration.. and if that ever happens..

* The news also mentioned the Egyptian IFF standardization..

** The multiplicity and diversity of operating aircraft, intuitively, means specialization, the Rafale, the Su, the F-16 and the MiG aircraft with different characteristics, thus different missions..

There will be squadrons of one type of aircraft designated for interception, one type for close bombardment, a new type for air Superiority/supremacy and finally the spearhead of the Silent Death Rafale..

This specialization may create a certain compatibility between the aircraft of each mission, if we assume that the role of the MiG-35 as an interceptor means that about fifty MiG-35s will be used, and this seems an appropriate number to connect them together and from there connects them to the main network as a single block..

There is a great scope for development in the field of communication through the satellite network, a French communications satellite and another Russian imaging satellite, ( with the potential Italian satellite) ..which will include everything in the sea, air and land, and there will be appropriate solutions..
I find it incredibly unfortunate that they weren't using Link-16 prior to 2018 and the signing of the CISMOA or when the Rafales came since all the F-16 would need that to get real time comms and information sharing from all the E-2Cs and grounds systems, even certain armor and AD units would certainly need to be linked in that fashion. If that was the case, that's very disheartening TBH. The supposition was that all of those had been operating in Link-16 especially because of all the USAF & EAF training during Bright Star and other engagements. Even the two other fellas who were participating a lot on the armed forces thread and have stopped a while ago were talking about the F-16s in the EAF operating in that link. Hey, at least they have it all squared away now and that's the important thing.
 

ARCH٤R

FULL MEMBER
Jul 26, 2016
331
0
448
Country
United States
Location
Egypt
I find it incredibly unfortunate that they weren't using Link-16 prior to 2018 and the signing of the CISMOA or when the Rafales came since all the F-16 would need that to get real time comms and information sharing from all the E-2Cs and grounds systems, even certain armor and AD units would certainly need to be linked in that fashion. If that was the case, that's very disheartening TBH. The supposition was that all of those had been operating in Link-16 especially because of all the USAF & EAF training during Bright Star and other engagements. Even the two other fellas who were participating a lot on the armed forces thread and have stopped a while ago were talking about the F-16s in the EAF operating in that link. Hey, at least they have it all squared away now and that's the important thing.
Egypt’s F-16s depend on Teledyne/Egyptian made communications systems and IFFs. If the US doesn’t offer a Link 16 specified to link F-16s with J-7s, MiG-35s and Sukhois then it’s not likely we’ll upgrade our F-16s to have Link-16.
 

CrazyZ

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 3, 2019
3,173
2
3,897
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
I would say the Suez canal is the reason Egypt has such mixed AC fleet. All major powers want to be on good terms with Cairo.
 

The SC

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 13, 2012
20,925
19
21,969
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
I would say the Suez canal is the reason Egypt has such mixed AC fleet. All major powers want to be on good terms with Cairo.
True..but ..It is just one of the reasons..
Egypt’s F-16s depend on Teledyne/Egyptian made communications systems and IFFs. If the US doesn’t offer a Link 16 specified to link F-16s with J-7s, MiG-35s and Sukhois then it’s not likely we’ll upgrade our F-16s to have Link-16.
Link-16 must be in Egypt now after the signing of the CISMOA agreement with the US... but just to link the F-16s together and with the Rafale and Mirage 2k.. not with the Mig-35s and SU-35s.. Linking all of them together is done by the subject of this thread..the RISC2
 
Last edited:

Gomig-21

SENIOR MEMBER
Oct 16, 2016
4,797
10
9,173
Country
Egypt
Location
United States
Egypt’s F-16s depend on Teledyne/Egyptian made communications systems and IFFs. If the US doesn’t offer a Link 16 specified to link F-16s with J-7s, MiG-35s and Sukhois then it’s not likely we’ll upgrade our F-16s to have Link-16.
I think the joint Egyptian and Teledyne system (besides the SCARAB Drones venture) was more of the actual transponders and interrogators that they set up to create a full fledged IFF system within all the aircraft of the EAF including the Russian MiG-21s, Mirages and probably the F-7s also. Where they could actually spot an unknown target on their radar and then the pilot can plug in an interrogator to that aircraft and ask it to identify itself and if it is part of the Egyptian network, it would receive the interrogation signal and that pilot would respond back and identify himself as friendly.

Data linkage under Link-16 is a much broader battlespace management network & communications system but does also include the identification or friednly assets simply becasue only friendly assets will be connected to it and not foes! lol.

LINK-16
It allows for real-time transfer of combat data, voice communications, imagery, and relative navigation information between dispersed battle elements, using data encryption and frequency hopping to maintain secure communications. The system facilitates the exchange of data over a common communication link, allowing participants to obtain and share situational awareness information and interoperate within the battlespace. Link 16 also facilitates the exchange of sensor information, enabling command and control centers—either centralized or distributed—to create Common Operating Pictures (COP). Interoperability provided by Link 16 allows each participant in the communication link to electronically observe the battlespace, identify threats, and acquire targets.



Then when say the USAF or any NATO country (say the Hellenic Air Force and even Navy) come to participate in an exercise, this makes for a much more coordinated program. The difference it would make on facilitating the entire communications between all forces involved, compared to if one of them didn't have it which surprises the heck out of me that this might've been the situation the EAF found itself in Saudiya between it and the RSAF and the UAEAF. And what were they doing during all those Bright Star exercises? The last one they had showed them practicing JTAC exercises with the EAF which was great. How the E-2Cs and the entire lot of F-16s weren't connected to Link-16 is very strange.
 

ARCH٤R

FULL MEMBER
Jul 26, 2016
331
0
448
Country
United States
Location
Egypt
Internal debt, Egypt’s internal debt is massive but isn’t really posing a danger. The Egyptian Government constantly gets loans from the banks and since 2016 and they never failed to pay the the interests of these loans, this money was put into bank certificates that exceed 10% in interest. This time the government isn’t forced to use the money the way the people want since its not taxes and rather have the same freedom as anyone who gets a loan from a bank. @dani191
 

PradoTLC

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 17, 2007
4,145
1
4,838
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Arab Emirates

you are aware of your population country size differences?

besides most of the money was inform of bribes to keep generals happy
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom