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How do Pakistanis and Indians Perceive Each Other?

Irfan Baloch

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Grew up amongst indians both hindus and Muslims in UK. Never had any threat or intimidation by Hindus. However the Indian muslims of the 90s despised the creation of Pakistan and it's people. They hated Pakistan from the core of their hearts.
However overtime some attitudes have changed. The elderly population still has great deal of prejudices agaisnt Pakistanis.
that is true. specially the events in Indian Gujrat brought some sense into them and made them more realistic about themselves.
 

Bilal9

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But the hindutva doctrine has been so embedded in them that it will not be able to come out for many generations.

In short, many generations of people will be troubled by them, as they try to reach their mythical loony dream of the Akhand Bharat

The concept of akhand bharat itself is as looney as Looney tunes itself.

Except these looney bhakt characters have all drunk the Kow kola Kool aid by now.

1668125982856.png
 

Al_Muhannad

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I was reading through this interesting book about how Pakistanis and Indians have come to perceive each other and their countries over the years, I felt like sharing some interesting excerpts I came across.

"One of my colleagues, Mariam, a twenty-two-year-old graduate from the Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS), told me she had hated India. She had hated it so much that when her father was posted to Delhi as a defence attaché, she had told him, ‘Abba, take us anywhere else in the world, why does it have to be India?’ For months, she and her sisters dwelled in this misery. Her younger sister, Maham, would cry her eyes out every night. She would say, ‘Hum India kyun ja rahe hain? Udhar tou sarey kafir hotey hain . . . woh tou achey nai hotey.’ (Why are we going to India? Only infidels live there. They aren’t good people.) Maham was of a tender age of five."

"Another student I worked with in a school had started crying hysterically when I passed around a picture of a Hindu deity; she was in Class 6, studying in an upper-middle-class school in Lahore that I worked in. When I asked her what happened, she told me her eyes had sinned; that she would now go to hell because of what she had seen."

"Later that year, when I took a few students with me to India for CAP’s Exchange-for-Change programme, one of the Indian schools had received us with garlands and music. The principal had moved forward to place a tika on our foreheads. Three of the Pakistani students had begun to cry; they turned and asked me if this meant they had become Hindu. They said they had heard Hindus would forcibly convert Muslims to their religion; was this their fate too?"

"This time, my question regarding what was special about India was received with pin-drop silence. Then a few children at the back started to snicker. A small girl nervously raised her hand and in a meek voice asked, ‘Shahrukh Khan?’ The others began to roll from side to side with laughter. ‘He’s a Pakistani, stupid! He’s Muslim. Muslims can’t be Indian,’ said one child. Another overconfident student got up from the middle row and declared, ‘India has nothing! They will all go to hell!’

" Adnan, a ten-year-old student of seventh standard, was sitting amongst these children, armed with his own jokes to crack. ‘Indians don’t cut their hair, Ma’am,’ ‘They are dirty people,’ ‘They are cheaters; that’s how they won the cricket match!’ Though not every child participated in the mockery and many perhaps only did so due to peer pressure, for several initial weeks that I returned to the school, I was received with the same sarcastic expressions, crude comments and empty-handed students. Many of the students told me they hated Indians, that they didn’t want to write them any letters. No one in the room had ever been to India and the majority of the students had never met an Indian either. However, the hatred they expressed seemed almost personal, and incredibly powerful."

"These students have been nurtured in a Pakistan that has fought several wars with India; some whose fathers were in the Pakistan Army would have felt the direct impact of the rivalry across the border. They have also heard about Indian soldiers committing atrocities at the LoC, of harassing Muslims in Indian Kashmir. They have been told, just as I was, that India took away not only Kashmir but also East Pakistan. Many recent conspiracy theories state that India is behind the terror attacks in Pakistan, that they are funding terrorist outfits so that Pakistan becomes unstable and eventually collapses under its own weight. These theories are becoming increasingly popular, so much so that auto-rickshaws across Lahore publicly carry signs that read, se rishta kya? Nafrat ka, intikam is our relationship with India, but that of hatred and revenge.) Perhaps it was this relationship that the students were emulating and displaying in their classrooms, too. In fact, it wasn’t just the students; school administrators and teachers also showed similar, though more subdued, sentiments."

"I had toured many schools across Lahore before finding three to work with. Most schools wanted to have nothing to do with an exchange programme that was with India and we had received many rejections. The tagline of the project—‘to celebrate similarities and appreciate differences’ between India and Pakistan—angered most people. A head administrator of one of the largest upper-middle-class private school networks in Pakistan told me that by suggesting such a programme, I was challenging the Two-Nation Theory. Why would we want children to explore the similarities between the two nations when there was nothing similar in the first place? After all, that was why Pakistan had been created, because we were two separate nations that could no longer live together. She told me the project was a waste of time and I should instead initiate it with China. When I told her the cultures of China and Pakistan were very different, she told me I didn’t realize how different those treacherous Indians were from the pure and innocent Pakistanis, and then politely asked me to leave."

"Over time and under the fear of their principal, the students began to jot down their thoughts and ideas. Messages started to pour in and while several brilliant letters and poems were composed, giving us a breath of relief, others were tarnished with disgust and scornful remarks. ‘India is the worst country on earth,’ ‘We hope you die,’ ‘We will never come to India!’


Are we really this hateful, ignorant, and intolerant? Pakistanis would have you believe that we actually "love" India and that it's the evil and hateful Indians that hate us for no reason. That it is just a false perception of us and propaganda. Reading through this book, it seems we are as hateful and ignorant vis a vis our neighbors if not more. I could also share some excerpts from the book about how the Indian students perceived the Pakistanis and what they said.
Classical anglo-saxon propaganda to put onus of Two Nation Theory entirely on Muslims. Problem is not RSS. They openly propagate genocide of Muslims. The real problem is the your nice friendly neighbor who suddenly finds his 5000 billion year old civilisational culture.
Thank God that the Chinese did not allow an institution like Aligarh university to take roots.
 

LeGenD

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This is your former Chief Justice of Pakistan, not any politician, not any other common man; a man of oath and someone who is supposed to be impartial to every single citizen as enshrined in the constitution.

Hear @0:20 onwards.


If a well read, highly educated, experienced sexagenarian, who has seen the world and who is considered to be the wisest of all in Pakistan by virtue of being CJP, possesses such disgust for his own countrymen that he can't even name them, what to even think of the plebeians!
Thanks for the pointer. I shall admit that he talked like an extremist. This does not suit him given his profession.

A person could conceivably be from a Hindu family and believe in Allah. Islam does not prohibit intermingling with any community [Quran 25-63], and also Islam prohibits cutting off family ties.

Makkah Muslims had been forced to leave Makkah for Medinah. Islam is not a cover for nationalism and racism, and must not be used as such. Example, two-nation theory, which is an ideology contradictory to Islam.
Islam does not allow a Muslim to marry a Hindu. This I know for sure given my own knowledge of the subject.

If a relative is Hindu then sure. It is NOT OK to isolate a relative on religious grounds and/or humanitarian grounds. But do not marry a Hindu relative if s/he is not willing to convert: allow a Hindu relative to find a suitable partner otherwise.

Islam allows co-existence with hindu if they are willing to pay jizyah and respect Muslims in a Muslim-majority society. But a Muslim should not marry a Hindu. Muslims are supposed to follow Islamic teachings and preserve Islamic identity.

Two Nation Theory have sociopolitical basis to it. You can clearly see in India the evidence of HOW influential extremist Hindu look down upon Muslims and work to suppress them on a broader level.

I recall following chapters:

1. Babri Masjid Saga
2. Suppression of Muslims in Gujrat*
3. Suppression of Muslims in Kashmir

*Entirely justified on the account of Naroda Patiya massacre. Modi's political role in facilitating communal riots and victimization of Muslims on mass scale in Gujrat is conveniently overlooked. A crime is used as the basis to instigate suppression of Muslims on state level. Modi was supposed to control the situation and punish culprits.

But the problem is broader in its scope. INDEPENDENT ANALYSIS for reference:


Why one of the finest Indian Muslim scholars Zakir Naik was forced to flee from India? Is he a criminal?

Talks of inter-faith harmony are welcome but people are unpredictable. Ideals are peaceful, history is violent.
 

Novus ordu seclorum

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Thanks for the pointer. I shall admit that he talked like an extremist. This does not suit him given his profession.


Islam does not allow a Muslim to marry a Hindu. This I know for sure given my own knowledge of the subject.

If a relative is Hindu then sure. It is NOT OK to isolate a relative on religious grounds and/or humanitarian grounds. But do not marry a Hindu relative if s/he is not willing to convert: allow a Hindu relative to find a suitable partner otherwise.

Islam allows co-existence with hindu if they are willing to pay jizyah and respect Muslims in a Muslim-majority society. But a Muslim should not marry a Hindu. Muslims are supposed to follow Islamic teachings and preserve Islamic identity.

Two Nation Theory have sociopolitical basis to it. You can clearly see in India the evidence of HOW influential extremist Hindu look down upon Muslims and work to suppress them on a broader level.

I recall following chapters:

1. Babri Masjid Saga
2. Suppression of Muslims in Gujrat*
3. Suppression of Muslims in Kashmir

*Entirely justified on the account of Naroda Patiya massacre. Modi's political role in facilitating communal riots and victimization of Muslims on mass scale in Gujrat is conveniently overlooked. A crime is used as the basis to instigate suppression of Muslims on state level. Modi was supposed to control the situation and punish culprits.

But the problem is broader in its scope. INDEPENDENT ANALYSIS for reference:


Why one of the finest Indian Muslim scholars Zakir Naik was forced to flee from India? Is he a criminal?

Talks of inter-faith harmony are welcome but people are unpredictable. Ideals are peaceful, history is violent.
We didn't discover Islam in the 20th century. Quran is the final Revelation and my guide. I don't subscribe to ideologies and middlemen, neither do my family and ancestry.
 

Vapnope

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Not kaffirs need to be eliminated but some of your text books are peppered with Anti-hindu religiophobia.
These are your own people reading it out...
Exactly, no official book says that Non muslims should be eliminated which was being claimed by the person whom i quoted.

What do you think of Pakistani Hindus then?
Pakistani Hindus are our brothers and should be considered equal citizens of Pakistan with equal rights. Unfortunately, state discriminates against her own citizens based on religion.
 

langda khan

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Lmaooo, @LeGenD @lastofthepatriots take a look at this bharati lmao

The ideology of Hindutvadis is to create a hindu rashtra within India, turning muslims and people of other religions into second class citizens at most.

Their ideology has already spread abroad, leading to clashes amongst muslim communities abroad. (Where they got their teeth kicked in, may I add)

And although it focuses on cultural hegemony, it can be greatly likened to fascism and ethnic absolutism.
This is why it is classed as extremism, and is the same reasons why a lot of people hate it too.

I am afraid its more than that cause Pakistanis are way more intact with our culture, and way of life anywhere we go in the world, the concept of son soil in our society is big, which basically means love for the land as your ancestors are part of the land you live now

If it indeed was just culture, and love for land then we are in it more than anyone else and don't need a new ideology as it is who we are

But Hindutva is not about that its, its just hatred for the Muslims, their way of life, as an ideology (before someone brings Pakistan into the convo, yes I am not saying we are a f-ing land of kumbah-ya, pretty obvious)

I am not talking about you people. Or even the Bangladeshis for that matter. For better or worse you are now a different people and represent to us what our Muslim population would be without a Hindu and non Muslim population interface living among and with them.

I am just educating you about a country and a people that is mine and not yours. So you should listen. Just as I would to you when you speak about Pakistan. Being a Pakistani in America with some ikka dukka Hindu friends and work colleagues does not make you an expert on us. I believe.
 

AlKardai

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I am not talking about you people. Or even the Bangladeshis for that matter. For better or worse you are now a different people and represent to us what our Muslim population would be without a Hindu and non Muslim population interface living among and with them.

I am just educating you about a country and a people that is mine and not yours. So you should listen. Just as I would to you when you speak about Pakistan. Being a Pakistani in America with some ikka dukka Hindu friends and work colleagues does not make you an expert on us. I believe.

No, it seems that we’re the ones who have been educating you in the topic of hindutva, because you clearly still think it’s a land of immaculate green hills and hopping bunnies.

In your previous message, you said that the Hindutvadi ideology is one that is excellent for the community- and one that cares for everyone to the point that it would be a shame to be without it.

I agreed with the cultural hegemony, but said that I disagree with the creation of the supreme Hindu rashtra, and the turning of Muslims and other faiths into second class citizens.

You still haven’t replied to that point I made.

And it’s very narrow of you to think that our behaviour resembles the behaviour of the Muslim population within the country, as most of us are not even from India, nor are acclimatised to the same kind of cultural Input.

Furthermore, this assumption can be made to Hindutvadis however, due to their ruling power and class all following its teachings, as well as a rapidly growing part of their population. The Indian media is peddling Hindutvadi propaganda, and so Is Bollywood. That is why we can take the ideologies of Hindutvadis out of an anecdotal context, and within a genuine one, that isn’t even a microcosm anymore.
 

Novus ordu seclorum

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No, it seems that we’re the ones who have been educating you in the topic of hindutva, because you clearly still think it’s a land of immaculate green hills and hopping bunnies.
People from India don't need to be educated about the existence of Hindutva ideology. What is your point.
 

AlKardai

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People from India don't need to be educated about the existence of Hindutva ideology. What is your point.

Quite the opposite actually. People in India, especially the non-Hindus, must be educated on the teaching of Hindutvadis, so that they know that they’ll eventually turn into second class citizens at best, if they support the RSS ideology
 

Novus ordu seclorum

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Quite the opposite actually. People in India, especially the non-Hindus, must be educated on the teaching of Hindutvadis, so that they know that they’ll eventually turn into second class citizens at best, if they support the RSS ideology
I don't support any ideology. Ideologies don't define who we are. Everyone has their own brain.
 

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