• Wednesday, September 18, 2019

how did china build its infrastructure ?

Discussion in 'China & Far East' started by Gandhi G in da house, Nov 18, 2010.

  1. misterme2

    misterme2 FULL MEMBER

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    Good attempt to hide your ignorance, I suggest you read a little more little girl. Built by Indians for an Indian. It took Indian builders, stone masons, artisans to create this work of art. Of course, there is Persian influence. The funny thing is how you view Persia and China as the only sources of knowledge or creativity.. I guess the Brits taught you guys drug addiction and how to make money with drugs thru the Opium Wars. See my point, it is very childish to act such a way. I expect so much more, but why should I. You are a human just like me.
     
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  2. no_name

    no_name ELITE MEMBER

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    Geographically speaking, the central plain is the heart of china, similar to the Ganges plain in India, and is the traditional power seat of china.

    [​IMG]

    The Xia, Shang, and Zhou dynasty was established in and around these areas so for them a unified china consists of these areas under control. They are also known as the nine provinces.

    Up till warring states period this part of china was contended by lords that had become powerful independly of the zhou lord. The state of Qin absorbes land west of the nine provinces but east of tibet then proceed to unify the other states and pushed north/south. After Qin collapsed Han dynasty took over.

    Warring states, Qin is in pink
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    From this point onwards unified china consisits of gaining control over at least the han predominant china proper, consisting of regions inside the black dotted line:

    [​IMG]

    Nowadays China refers to china proper + inner mongolia + outer mongolia +tibet + xinjiang + taiwan. (inner mongolia is a region of contention between china and nomads throughout history, tibet was first controlled by Yuan dynasty, xinjiang has been under chinese influence since han and finally included by qing dynasty, also with outer mongolia which later become independent. Taiwan was first included into the map by qing dynasty after they defeated the remnant ming forces on the island)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
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  3. Martian2

    Martian2 SENIOR MEMBER

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    India doesn't have China-level infrastructure for two main reasons.

    1. India doesn't have the money.

    Modern infrastructure is costly. Basically, a country that has 1 trillion dollars in tax revenues can afford to build new modern infrastructure. In comparison, a country with only 130 billion dollars in tax revenues will have to struggle.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/in.html

    "(Indian) Budget:

    revenues: $129.8 billion
    expenditures: $214.6 billion (2009 est.)"

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

    "(Chinese) Budget:

    revenues: $1.002 trillion
    expenditures: $1.111 trillion (2009 est.)"

    2. India is paying Western prices for her infrastructure. Western prices are much higher than the "China price." Therefore, for the same money, India is receiving a lot less infrastructure than China.

    For example, the major contractors of the Delhi metro are:

    DMRC : Tenders

    DMRC's Major Contractors

    Contract Package-----Company Consortium which the contract package has been awarded

    1. Design and Construction of Civil Works and Ventilation & Air Conditioning
    Works for Metro Corridor (Vishwa Vidyalaya ISBT section) (Contract Package MC1A)

    - Kumagai Gumi Co. Ltd. Japan
    - Skanska International Civil Engineering
    - AB, Sweden
    - Hindustan Construction Co. Ltd. India
    - Itochu Corporation, Japan

    2. Design and Construction Civil Works and Ventilation Air Conditioning for Metro Corridor (ISBT – Central Secretariat) (Contract Package MC1B)

    - Dyckerhoff & Windmann AG, Germany
    - Shimizu Corporation, Japan
    - Larsen & Turbo Ltd., India
    - Samsung Corporation, Korea
    - IRCON International Ltd., India

    3. Design, Manufacture, Supply and Commissioning of Rolling Stock for Metro & Rail Corridors (Contract Package RS1)

    - Mitsubishi Corporation, Japan
    - KOROS, Korea
    - Mitsubishi Electric Corporation, Japan

    4. Signalling / Train Control and Communication System for Metro & Rail Corridors (Contract Package SYS1)

    - Alstom Transport Ltd., India
    - Alstom Transport SA, France
    - Alcatel Portugal SA
    - Sumitomo Corporation, Japan

    5. Traction Power, Power Distribution and SCADA System for Metro Corridor (Contract Package SYS2)

    - IRCON International Ltd. (India)
    - Corba, Spain
    - ELIOP, Spain

    6. Automatic Fare Collection System for Metro & Rail Corridors. (Contract Package SYS4)

    - Alcatel CGA Transport, France

    7. Supply, Installation, Testing and Commission of Tractions Electrification, Power Supply, Power Distribution and SCADA System for Rail Corridor (Contract Package RC-7A)

    - ABB Ltd., India
    - Best & Crompton
    - Engineering Ltd., India

    8. Supply, Installation, Testing and Commissioning of ballast less tract for Rail Corridor (Contract Package RC3)

    - IRCON International Ltd. (India)
    - MVM Rail Pty., Australia
     
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  4. GodlessBastard

    GodlessBastard FULL MEMBER

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    Neither of those reasons are the main reason for India's lagging infrastrcture. There is no shortage of money in India, trust me.
     
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  5. Martian2

    Martian2 SENIOR MEMBER

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    No end to Kalmadi's corruption- TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

    "No end to Kalmadi's corruption
    23 Nov 2010, 0007 hrs IST

    One wonders if Commonwealth Games Organising Committee Chief Suresh Kalmadi remembers the number of scams he has been named in. He might have lost count but we haven’t. Despite his many attempts to hide, divert and dodge all the allegations, TIMES NOW has details of another scam where Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) sources have confirmed to your channel that Kalmadi swindled money to the tune of Rs 450 crore.

    And what’s more CBI will not only probe Kalmadi but will also investigate Delhi Development Authority (DDA) and Municipal Corporation of Delhi’s (MCD) role in the scam. When Union Sports Ministry asked Kalmadi to reduce the budget but still cover the items, Kalmadi palmed off the Rs 250 crore to DDA and MCD for overlays cost, and inflated the remaining budget by Rs 200 crore during CWG, with the fresh scam adding to Rs 450 crore. The latest expose even as Kalmadi's will only add to the pressure on the CBI to arrest Kalmadi. His juniors might be stewing in jail but Kalmadi still walks free leaving many doubting CBI’s real intentions.

    Q1. Why did Suresh Kalmadi not inform Sports Ministry about exceeding budget on overlays expenses by Rs 250 crores?
    Q2. Why was excess 200 crores spent when investigations show that actual prices were much less?
    Q3. Were DDA, MCD officials hand in glove on the overlays scam?"
     
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  6. Water Car Engineer

    Water Car Engineer ELITE MEMBER

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    @no_name

    Thank you for the information..

    Lets go back on topic.
     
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  7. Martian2

    Martian2 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Indian government places a priority on military projects. Civilian infrastructure projects are not as exciting.

    http://www.armybase.us/2009/06/india-to-speed-fighter-jet-deal/

    "India to speed fighter jet deal
    Posted by ThunderBolt on June 7th, 2009

    NEW DELHI - India will soon hold field trials for the purchase of 126 fighter planes in a $10.4 billion contract that is one of the world’s biggest current arms deals.

    Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin Corp’s F-16, Russia’s MiG-35, Sweden’s Saab KAS-39 Gripen and the Eurofighter Typhoon, a consortium of British, German, Italian and Spanish companies, are in the race for the lucrative contract.

    France’s Dassault Aviation was knocked out last month on technical grounds, but could be back after answering queries related to its aircraft, a defence official said.

    “All the paperwork is over and a technical evaluation report on the fighters has been placed with the ministry,” defence ministry spokesman Sitanshu Kar said. “Security concerns are a top priority of the government and things should start rolling once the new defence minister takes charge,” he added.

    Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was due to be sworn in for a second term on Friday and name the new defence minister in his cabinet.

    With a stronger mandate, Singh is expected to push through key decisions including greater military cooperation with the United States which had been stymied because of opposition from his former communist allies.

    “Much of the Congress-led government’s last term was spent on the civilian nuclear deal with the U.S. while its communist allies objected to strategic defence ties,” said Uday Bhaskar, a New Delhi-based strategic analyst.

    India increased its defence spending by nearly a quarter in 2009/10 to $28.9 billion as the government was keen to focus on security following last November’s Mumbai attacks.

    It is looking to spend more than $30 billion over the next five years to modernise its largely Soviet-era weapons systems.


    [​IMG]
    Indian Air Force’s AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) platform touches down at the Jamnagar air base in India, Monday, May 25, 2009 (Indian MoD)

    With elections over, the defence ministry will push for clearing pending projects, including the induction of the Phalcon Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS) aircraft from Israel to track incoming missiles or enemy aircraft.

    A defence team from India will visit Russia next month to speed up delivery of the aircraft carrier Gorshkov for induction into the Indian Navy by 2012.
    (Bappa Majumdar/Reuters)"
     
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  8. ChineseTiger1986

    ChineseTiger1986 ELITE MEMBER

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    India should build many strong economic sectors for civilian purpose instead of obssessing being a military superpower. Look what happened at USSR, history always repeats itself. Now it is not too late to take the reform.
     
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  9. Water Car Engineer

    Water Car Engineer ELITE MEMBER

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    I dont understand.... Its trying to replaces its old tech, similar to many other nations. And it spends 2.5% of its GDP on the military. I am pretty sure USSR spent A LOT more then India.

    India's infrastructure build up is coming too. It plans to spend much more on that then on the military..

    India isnt Eritrea, a nation that spends like 20% of its GDP on the military...
     
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  10. StingRoy

    StingRoy SENIOR MEMBER

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    Don't worry about India's obsession or lack of it for its military. India is targeting to spend $1 Trillion dollars on infrastructure in the next five years which will much overshadow what is spent on the military preparedness.
     
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  11. ChineseTiger1986

    ChineseTiger1986 ELITE MEMBER

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    Of course, upgrading military tech is good, but India simply overspends in purchasing military gadgets around World. Just look at her inventory, it has Russian, American, Brit, French, Israel mark weaponries. That's not very good, you cannot absorb so many different technologies at same time, it would take a while, then those weapons would become outdated once you absorb its technologies.
     
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  12. ChineseTiger1986

    ChineseTiger1986 ELITE MEMBER

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    That's good for your country. With a robust economy, then you can start to think about how to expand your military strength.
     
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  13. justanobserver

    justanobserver SENIOR MEMBER

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    USSR spent close to 20% on defense.

    No, defense spending is based on threat perception. (china got it's ICBMs in the 70s remember)
     
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  14. ChineseTiger1986

    ChineseTiger1986 ELITE MEMBER

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    China developed its own ICBM very early was to contain the threat of USA and USSR.

    USSR had the plan to nuke us in 1960s, and retakeover the control of China. Therefore, we had to develop the ability to nuke back at Moscow and St Petersburg, this would restrict the craziness of USSR warmongers.
     
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  15. Martian2

    Martian2 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Forum members have expressed their dissatisfaction with my first four proposed reasons to explain the difference between China's and India's infrastructures. I believe that I have found the answer. Since China spends twice as much (as a percentage of GDP) on infrastructure than India, it is perfectly understandable that China's infrastructure is increasingly world-class.

    http://www.financialexpress.com/news/china-spends-11-of-gdp-on-infrastructure-india-6/586401/
    "China spends 11% of GDP on infrastructure, India 6%
    Geethanjali Nataraj
    Posted: Thursday, Mar 04, 2010 at 2312 hrs IST"

    Let's do the math.

    China's GDP (i.e. $5 trillion) is four times larger than India's GDP (i.e. $1.2 trillion).

    China's infrastructure budget is 11% of $5 trillion = $550 billion

    India's infrastructure budget is 6% of $1.2 trillion = $72 billion

    As we can see, China's infrastructure budget is 7.6 times larger than India's.

    The last five years of infrastructure improvement in China will require 38 years in India. Hence, I have explained the difference in infrastructure levels between China and India.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
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