• Monday, January 21, 2019

How can The Pakistan Navy enhance its ISR and Kill Chain? (At an Affordable Price)

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by FuturePAF, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. FuturePAF

    FuturePAF FULL MEMBER

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    What are some elements Pakistan Navy can procure or produce that would enhance ISR and Speed up the Kill Chain at an Affordable Price?

    Pakistan is investing Billions into new submarines. They can be thought of as the large sensors and high capacity shooters, but using them will expose them when they are also necessary for long range surveillance to keep the SLOCs open. What smaller, more economical products can the PN procure that would allow it to do its mission without breaking the bank.

    1. China has developed a Ship-borne Over the horizon radar recently that could detect enemy ships up to 1000 km away
    2. Adding long endurance UAVs that can loiter over an area to challenge any intruders endurance; such s enemy submarines

    Combining the new Chinese CH-10 Tilt Rotor UAV with Sonobouy payload bay for ASW
    (further developing the tilt rotor UAV into a seaplane could allow it to operate as an unmanned surface vessel until it is signaled to investigate a suspicious target in Pakistan's EEZ; application include law enforcement, fisheries, search and rescue, etc.)

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0...-31/be9b4ced-a241-4dba-b6cc-d7865a2970bd.jpeg
    http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h358/buglerbilly/buglerbilly010/pod_zpswnahkogp.jpg
     
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  2. Bilal Khan 777

    Bilal Khan 777 PROFESSIONAL

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    i can write 10 pages on how PN can achieve this.
     
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  3. S.Y.A

    S.Y.A SENIOR MEMBER

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    please do so, and upload the pdf. would be grateful.
     
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  4. HRK

    HRK PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    plz do it ... if don't want to go in detail at least post summary of ideas and your understanding about this topic .... I am sure that will be an interesting read ....
     
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  5. Super Falcon

    Super Falcon ELITE MEMBER

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    Main issue for pn is indian aircraft cariers we need potent destroyers with long range sam to take out their air superiority
     
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  6. S.Y.A

    S.Y.A SENIOR MEMBER

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    will be much much better than reading ten pages of this thread in the future, filled with out of the world ideas, and trolling indians.
     
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  7. FuturePAF

    FuturePAF FULL MEMBER

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    Is the Indian objective to achieve a Blockade or is it more than that? They could stay 400 km off the coast and launch fighters to protect their ships as they harass our merchant vessels, but we would find a way to re-flag our merchant ships. Do they intent to use the carrier battle groups to attack in force from two directions against Karachi while a Cold Start force tries to move overland to Karachi? What do we think the Indians actually think they can get done?

    I ask to understand what the center of gravity of their naval strategy actually is, because if it is to use their carriers as the center piece of a blockade, then targeting the carriers will unravel their entire plans. But if they hold their carrier back further; and use their surface fleet, submarines, and land based fighter/bombers to attack Karachi; then targeting the carriers will be misguided. Then in that case attacking their cohesion and sowing confusion in their plans would be a better use of our efforts.
     
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  8. Hakikat ve Hikmet

    Hakikat ve Hikmet SENIOR MEMBER

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    upload_2019-1-10_16-39-31.jpeg [​IMG] upload_2019-1-10_16-42-44.jpeg

    Pak can have a look at the flying whale!!! Akinci (pronounce Akinji) UAVs are really huuuge!!!!!

    @Bilal Khan 777

    Pasham!!! This is really home grown!!! It's the Apple's "garage story" for the Turkish private sector defense industry!!! A matter of great pride for the young Turks...
     
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  9. Itachi

    Itachi FULL MEMBER

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    Please do!

    My take on it:

    1) Increase the number of aircrafts given to PN for ISR (intelligence, surveillance & reconnaissance), sonobuoy, torpedo & AShm launching.

    2) Use of tactical & armed MALE & HALE UAVs for ISR & above purposes.

    3) Use of UUVs (unmanned underwater vehicles) & AUV's (Autonomous Underwater Vehicles) both small & large.

    Can do:
    • Intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance
    • Mine laying, detecting & disarming
    • Anti-submarine warfare
    • Inspection/identification
    • Oceanography
    • Become Communication/navigation network nodes
    • Payload delivery
    • Information operations
    • Time-critical strikes

    4) Introduce IUSS (Integrated Undersea Surveillance System)/ SOSUS (Sound Surveillance System) or make a better one.

    The Chinese have the "Underwater Great Wall" in the South China Sea, you can ask them for help if they already haven't helped with that. Reportedly, they can detect any surface & underwater vehicles arriving & leaving at the US Guam Naval Base. We can do the same all around the Indian Coastline with UUV's, like a underwater IUSS made of UUV's.

    5) Introduce USV's (Unmanned Surface Vehicles). They can carry extra torpedoes & launch them so that the submarines can stay hidden by just relaying data to the USV's. They can also carry SAM's, BM's (Ballistic Missiles), AShm's & more sonobuoys. The last sentence is yet to be implemented or researched by any nation yet, be the first one :D The idea is out here on the internet!

    Hordes of cheap USV's can be produced, armed with SAM's, AShms & CM's and sent into the Indian CBG's & coastlines to wreak havoc. ;)

    We can even enforce a full blockade of their coastlines or just major ports with this idea. :cool:


    [​IMG]

    You can see the DARPA logo on it :D

    DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, US) ACTUV (ASW Continuous Trail Unmanned Vessel):

    [​IMG]


    Picture each of the box in the solar panels as Vertical Launch Tubes ;)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    6) Introduce more Anti-submarine frigates or corvettes like...
    [​IMG]


    7) Introduce Satellite Surveillance of the EEZ and beyond area to such a degree that if any hostile submarine pops up for air, it'll be seen along with in-depth into the water looking satellite surveillance. Enemy ports, harbors & docks can also be easily monitored using this strategy, letting PN know how many ships are out on sea vs any in the port & docks.

    [​IMG]


    The full battlespace:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  10. Itachi

    Itachi FULL MEMBER

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    Had to make another post because of limit on image post per post.

    Another example:

    [​IMG]


    Shore based IUSS:

    [​IMG]

    Getting a GPS fix:

    [​IMG]

    US UUV Projects:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Smaller USV's (good in the marsh lands of Kutch):

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    US Programs:

    [​IMG]


    The Global USV & UUV market outlook:

    [​IMG]

    There's much more to be said but yea....:D
     
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  11. wulff

    wulff FULL MEMBER

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    For enhancing its ISR Capabilities in particular, the following are essential for PN:
    1. Ocean Radar Satellites (SAR Radar Carrying Satellites for pinpoint tracking of the location of enemy surface fleets) & ELINT Satellites
    2. Broad Area Surveillance by HALE UAVs (e.g. Chinese Divine Eagle)
    3. Small SSNs (which are more affordable than large SSNs, similar to the French Barracuda, or the Chinese Rumored small SSN under development) equipped with flank and towed array sonar and capable of tracking enemy strategic nuclear subs and carrier battle groups for long durations)
    4. Underwater Sensor Arrays (like SOSUS/IUSS/Underwater great wall)
    5. Dedicated Surveillance Ships (Underwater Surveying & Mapping Vessels, TAGOS like sonar array towing vessels, ELINT vessels)

    For enhancing its strike capabilities:
    1. Anti Ship Ballistic Missiles (a DF-21D like modification of one of Pakistan's IRBMs)
    2. Small SSNs, again
    3. Long range Twin Engine Maritime Strike + Air Superiority Fighter (J-16)

    What Pakistan does not need is more capital ships: fleets of frigates that have questionable area air defence capabilities and which are sitting ducks for enemy hunter killer submarines and naval strike aircraft in the absence of any undersea and aerial support.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  12. Tank131

    Tank131 FULL MEMBER

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    For cost effective ISR you will need

    1. Long range/loiter UAV im the vein of Global Hawk (22,000km range, 32hr loiter time), but something less ambitious like the Guizhou Soar Dragon (7,000km range, 10hr loiter) will do. These can be used for monitoring SLC, tracking and targeting of enemy vessels and anti-piracy.

    2. Underwater sensor grids including signal and sonar grids laid throughout the EEZ. I would even consider using underwater sleds/platforms to house a few AShM (Similar to those used to test Babur III) tied to ground controls placed at strategic areas in the EEZwhich can be fed targeting info via senspr grid, ships, or aircraft, to help prevent hostile aggression within PAK EEZ.

    3.UUVs. These will be key as pointed out abov.

    4. Development of ANTI-Ship Ballistic Missile possibly based on Shaheen series.

    5. Deployment or AWACs and ASW aircraft. PAKISTAN will have 11 AWACs shortly, which is amongst the most of any nation (top 6 i believe). A number of these will likely focus on the naval theater. It also should pursue a more robust ASW fleet based mostly around something like the Y-8GX6 aka the Y-8Q.
     
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  13. MUSTAKSHAF

    MUSTAKSHAF SENIOR MEMBER

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    Eagerly waiting sir,do tag na cheez.
     
  14. The Accountant

    The Accountant SENIOR MEMBER

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    Underwater sensor grid could be a really effective tool ...
     
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  15. Storm bombardier

    Storm bombardier FULL MEMBER

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    That 's expensive