How can our pre-Islamic ancestors be claimed to be following Brahmanic or Zorastrian traditions if they ate beef and buried their dead?

[ThunderCat]

The geographical realities of the Gangetic plains were never conducive to such complex developments.

Probably, which is why there's an obsession of the Indus & Vedic peoples amongst some of them and their descendants, the Pakistanis.

 

[El Sidd]

Probably, which is why there's an obsession of the Indus & Vedic peoples amongst some of them and their descendants, the Pakistanis.

That obsession is driven by misplaced religious revanchism along the lines of clash of civilisations in 'final' times. Hence the Indian phull sapport comments in the Israeli media.

Radical doomsday preppers.

 

[ThunderCat]

That obsession is driven by misplaced religious revanchism along the lines of clash of civilisations in 'final' times. Hence the Indian phull sapport comments in the Israeli media.

Which does not encourage Israelis, only annoys them from what i've seen on social media posts.

But not meaning to put like-minded Indians in the same bag. Only the insecure nationalistic ones.

 

[El Sidd]

Which does not encourage Israelis, only annoys them from what i've seen on social media posts.

But not meaning to put like-minded Indians in the same bag. Only the insecure nationalistic ones.

Hope to be proven wrong but manifestation of the thought highlighted resonates across all spectrum of the Indian society.

 

[ThunderCat]

Hope to be proven wrong but manifestation of the thought highlighted resonates across all spectrum of the Indian society.

Totally. I've seen it all. Many Indian minds have been wasted on this government/bollywood cancer culture, probably dating back to the days of the congress.

 

[ThunderCat]

A nation unaware of its past is doomed for the future.

If you want to understand Pakistan’s prehistoric past I’d recommend following “Ancient Pakistan” on Facebook and Instagram.

https://www.facebook.com/AncientPakistan.pk/posts/pfbid0pt7mxDDWuaaLVJ3cT2xw86ggUfMdwdGTghwXyHswCMit4c47FWbjrTvKNFijk4Aal

That post in the screenshot needs to be corrected. Iranians are citizens of modern Iran, distinct from the Iranic peoples which are not necessarily equated with Iran as explained in this video:

 

[TNT]

A nation unaware of its past is doomed for the future.

If you want to understand Pakistan’s prehistoric past I’d recommend following “Ancient Pakistan” on Facebook and Instagram.

https://www.facebook.com/AncientPakistan.pk/posts/pfbid0pt7mxDDWuaaLVJ3cT2xw86ggUfMdwdGTghwXyHswCMit4c47FWbjrTvKNFijk4Aal

I am sure u took that quote out of context. So tell me what use is to me thousands of years old "assertions" that may or maynot be true? Why do i care what Gods they worshipped? As long as i know am on the correct path.

Do you know what the first thing Arabs did after establishing their religion? They looked back in history and interpreted all the greek texts. They also have a deep understanding of their roots, ancestry and history which is embodied in their faith and culture. It's the same with all great civilizations.

We dont have any texts here just assertions based on stones and utlincils. Also when Islam came, it actually destroyed the old barbaric and jahalat based cutoms and culture.

 

[Bleek]

Hinduism is not a uniform religion, it varies between region/locality even in India, it was only formalised into writing and name under the British.

Pakistanis were a mix of many things, mainly Hinduism, Buddhism, ancestor worshippers, etc.

We dont have any texts here just assertions based on stones and utlincils. Also when Islam came, it actually destroyed the old barbaric and jahalat based cutoms and culture.

I always see this argument being used by atheists and Islamaphobes - that Islam eradicated native cultures but it's the most nonsensical argument.

The core of all cultures was kept, their language, traditional clothing, everything, it was only civilised and altered to align with Islamic teaching. Before Islam many regions were practicing extremely barbaric regressive things and Islam forcefully removed that.

People tend to have a narrow view and instantly label it wrong, but look at parts of India today that worship rats and penises, and quite literally abuse women - how else are you supposed to eradicate culturally engrained regressiveness without conquering those people?

It has always been like that throughout history and even today the US does the same via sanctions and threats. It's the same cultural imperialism happening but with different methods.

 

[epebble]

I always see this argument being used by atheists and Islamaphobes - that Islam eradicated native cultures but it's the most nonsensical argument.

The core of all cultures was kept, their language, traditional clothing, everything, it was only civilised and altered to align with Islamic teaching. Before Islam many regions were practicing extremely barbaric regressive things and Islam forcefully removed that.

If you read the pre-Islamic history of Kaaba, it was actually modified from a preexisting Bedouin temple. So, a preexisting culture was both modified and preserved.

Prior to Islam, the Kaaba was a holy site for the various Bedouin tribes throughout the Arabian Peninsula. Once every lunar year, Bedouin people would make a pilgrimage to Mecca. Setting aside any tribal feuds, they would worship their gods in the Kaaba and trade with each other in the city.[18] Various sculptures and paintings were held inside the Kaaba. A statue of Hubal (the principal idol of Mecca) and statues of other pagan deities are known to have been placed in or around the Kaaba.[19] Apart from the paintings of pagan idols decorating the walls, which were destroyed at the behest of Muhammad after his conquest of Mecca,[19] there were also paintings of angels, of Ibrahim holding divination arrows, and of Isa (Jesus) and his mother Maryam (Mary), which Muhammad spared.[20] Undefined decorations, money and a pair of ram's horns were recorded to be inside the Kaaba.[19] The pair of ram's horns were said to have belonged to the ram sacrificed by Ibrahim in place of his son Ismail as held by Islamic tradition

 

[ThunderCat]

Hinduism is not a uniform religion, it varies between region/locality even in India, it was only formalised into writing and name under the British.

Pakistanis were a mix of many things, mainly Hinduism, Buddhism, ancestor worshippers, etc.

“"Hinduism" is largely a fiction, formulated in the 18th and 19th centuries out of a multiplicity of sub-continental religions, and enthusiastically endorsed by Indian modernisers. Unlike Muslims, "Hindus" have tended to borrow more than reject, and it has now been reconfigured as a global rival to the big three monotheisms. In the process, it has abandoned the tradition of toleration which lie in its true origins.” -Pankaj Mishra

"The term Hindu was first imposed on South Asian nations by the
Afghan dynasty of Ghori in the 12th century; this term was never
used in south Asia prior to the Muslim era and is not even found in
early (pre-12th century AD) Brahmanical or Buddhist texts. Such a
term and concept has no historical depth in any social, religious,
ethnic or national sense past the 12th century when Mohammed Ghori
for the first time named his conquered subjects Hindus." [G. Singh,
Sakasthan and India, Toronto, 1999, p. 20]

 

[epebble]

Another way to see various religions on a continuum and not as sudden inventions is to study the similarity between various scriptures. This website shows similarities and differences between older scriptures and Quran:

Bible vs Quran: Similarities And Differences

Bible, Quran, Christianity & Islam: Similarities And Differences: Oneness of God, Creation of Universe, Creation of Man, Divinity of Jesus, Women dressing And Polygamy.

www.thelastdialogue.org

 

[AlKardai]

@Novus ordu seclorum is telling me about a Concubine of Prophet Ibrahim and her descendants being “Ancient Syeds” or “Kshatriya Deva.” I asked him for authentic Islamic sources, he shares a Wikipedia page that contains nothing about Islamic source, but has Christian concepts of her. Then he shares a Jewish page which again makes no sense as our traditions differs, but he wants me to believe it’s Islamic when I cannot find one Islamic source online. Then he provides a weak argument that Durood Sharif contains the family of Ibrahim (as) so it means that his family is “Syed.”
Ibrahim (as) blessed home includes his wife and son, legitimate children’s.

Another Indian is distorting history, specifically Islamic history, and providing personal views and non Islamic sources when I asked him to provide authentic Islamic sources.


Provide authentic Islamic non Indian source to back up your claims. Until I see actual authentic Islamic source verifying your claims, I refused to believe this. As for other Muslims members, please add if you can.

@Sayfullah @Battlion25 @Mirzali Khan @PakFactor @SalarHaqq @salarsikander @lastofthepatriots @AlKardai

Just to clarify, any sources stating that The first wife of Prophet Ibrahim (AS), Hajra (RA) was a concubine, are strictly Christian sources. The Quran or Sunnah does not specify this, though she is referred to as “Ismail’s mother” a lot.

Wikipedia however, states that she was the Prophet Ibrahim’s wife.

This is not my final word on the topic. It is late for me right now, and I’ll answer it further in the morning

 

[epebble]

Just to clarify, any sources stating that The first wife of Prophet Ibrahim (AS), Hajra (RA) was a concubine, are strictly Christian sources

This narration is from the Book of Genesis Chapter 16 and is pre-Christian (i.e., from Hebrew Torah/Old Testament).

Genesis 16 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

 

[Vikramaditya-I]

It's rejected in India. They believe Sanskrit "originated" in India

Where do you think Sanskrit originated? North Africa?

Which confirms my theory if Indus was left alone they would have created their own version of monotheism. The missing link for Pakistan to be able to become a fully fledged civilization.

The Kalash people were left alone, they had a polytheistic faith. In our history, only Sikhism has been something close to a monotheistic faith that originated in India. All the rest are either polytheistic or non-theistic beliefs.

 

[Paitoo]

The 'what-if' analysis of historical events is interesting but one must remember that a small change in historical events can cause a major change thousands of years down the line, to the extent that the present is completely different from the way we experience it today. It can mean for example there is no India or Pakistan as we see them today, and even our own individual existence may be questionable.