• Thursday, April 26, 2018

History teaches us not to trust the US,

Discussion in 'Strategic & Foreign Affairs' started by ghazi52, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. ghazi52

    ghazi52 ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    21,422
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Ratings:
    +23 / 29,683 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    History teaches us not to trust the US

    January 03, 2018


    In response to US President Trump's tirade against Pakistan, Foreign Minister Khawaja Asif in a series of tweets reminded the United States of the services Pakistan had rendered during the past several years, particularly in the war against terrorism.

    The foreign minister said, "The history teaches us not to blindly trust the US."

    "You have asked what did we do? A dictator surrendered [before the US] on a single phone call, our country witnessed the worse bloodbath, you carried out 57,800 attacks on Afghanistan from our bases, your forces were supplied arms and explosives through our soil, thousands of our civilians and soldiers became victims of the war initiated by you," he tweeted.

    The minister also highlighted the sacrifices rendered by Pakistanis in the war against terrorism. He also talked about the cost Pakistan paid for its participation in the said war.


    [​IMG]Khawaja M. Asif

    ✔@KhawajaMAsif


    پوچھتے ھو کیا کیا؟ایک آمر نےفون کال پہ سر نڈر کیا،وطن کو بارود و خون سے نہلا یا افغانستان پر اپنے اڈوں سے تمھارے 57800 حملے،ہماری گزرگا ھوں سےتمھارا اسلحہ،بارود گیا،ہزاروں سویلین ،فو جی، بریگیڈیئر،جنرل، جواں سال لیفٹیننٹ آپکی چھیڑ ی جنگ کی بھینٹ چڑھ گئے 1/3

    9:31 AM - Jan 3, 2018

    "We considered your enemy as our own, we filled the Guantanamo Bay, we served you with such an enthusiasm that we left our country with load shedding and gas shortage. We tried to please you on the cost of our economy, we provided tens of thousands of visas as a result of which the networks of Black Water spread across our country," he wrote in another tweet.

    ✔@KhawajaMAsif
    پوچھتے ھو کیا کیا؟ایک آمر نےفون کال پہ سر نڈر کیا،وطن کو بارود و خون سے نہلا یا افغانستان پر اپنے اڈوں سے تمھارے 57800 حملے،ہماری گزرگا ھوں سےتمھارا اسلحہ،بارود گیا،ہزاروں سویلین ،فو جی، بریگیڈیئر،جنرل، جواں سال لیفٹیننٹ آپکی چھیڑ ی جنگ کی بھینٹ چڑھ گئے 1/3

    جوآپ کادشمن،وہ ہمارا دشمن.
    ہم نے گوانٹانامو بے کو بھر دیا. ہم آپ کی خدمت میں اتنے مگن ہوئے کہ پوری ملک کو دس سال تک لوڈشیڈنگ اور گیس شارٹیج کے حوالے کیا، معیشت برباد ہو گئی لیکن خواہش تھی آپ راضی رھیں، ہم نے لاکھوں ویزے پیش کئے
    بلیک واٹر،ریمنڈ ڈیوس نیٹ ورک جگہ جگہ پھیل گئے2/3

    "For the past four years, we have been clearing the debris. Our forces are fighting in an exemplary manner, there is an unending saga of sacrifices. The past teaches us not to blindly trust the US. We are feeling sorry as you are not happy but we will not compromise on our prestige anymore," he concluded.
    جوآپ کادشمن،وہ ہمارا دشمن.
    ہم نے گوانٹانامو بے کو بھر دیا. ہم آپ کی خدمت میں اتنے مگن ہوئے کہ پوری ملک کو دس سال تک لوڈشیڈنگ اور گیس شارٹیج کے حوالے کیا، معیشت برباد ہو گئی لیکن خواہش تھی آپ راضی رھیں، ہم نے لاکھوں ویزے پیش کئے
    بلیک واٹر،ریمنڈ ڈیوس نیٹ ورک جگہ جگہ پھیل گئے2/3
    4 سال سے
    دھائیوں کا ملبہ صاف کر رھے ھیں۔ھما ری افواج بے مثال جنگ لڑ رھی ھے۔قربانیوں کی لا متنا ھی داستاں۔ماضی سکھاتا ھےامریکہ پہ اعتماد میں احتیاط۔ھما ری دہلیز پر اپنی ناکامی کا ملبہ نہ رکھو۔آپ خوش نھیں افسوس ھے ھمارے وقار پہ اب سمجھوتہ نھیں ھو گا 3/3
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. Enigma_

    Enigma_ FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,336
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Ratings:
    +4 / 1,542 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Australia
    And yet we trusted them even knowing that. Clearly we didn't learn anything from history.
     
  3. Iqbal Ali

    Iqbal Ali SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,693
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2017
    Ratings:
    +4 / 5,652 / -3
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Canada
    Time to turn to China, Russia, EU, and South America now.

    Time to look for the alternatives now.
     
  4. ghazi52

    ghazi52 ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    21,422
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Ratings:
    +23 / 29,683 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    Ahsan Iqbal reminds Trump of Soviet-Afghan War, calls it the root cause of modern conflict
    January 03, 2018

    [​IMG]
    Ahsan Iqbal answers Trump's criticism — Dawn News

    Interior Minister Ahsan Iqbal on Wednesday lashed out at the incumbent US administration, saying that no one has the right to label Pakistan a 'liar' given its sizable contribution to the so-called 'War on Terror'.

    In a strongly worded speech, he also reminded US President Donald Trump how the region's terrorism-marred past is actually the US's own doing.

    Speaking at the Police Lines in Islamabad, the interior minister was responding to the US president's recent criticism of Pakistan as a 'lying' and 'deceiving' nation.

    "No one has the right to call Pakistan a liar when it has made the biggest sacrifices in the war against terror," the minister said.

    "The US president's recent remarks are akin to belittling our sacrifices. We are a dignified nation and no one has the right to attack our dignity."

    Iqbal also brought up the Soviet–Afghan War of the late '70s and '80s to remind Trump that the radicalisation of Afghanistan, which the US now detests, actually began at its own behest..

    "I want to remind the US that these thorns are your inventions," said Iqbal. "As soon as the war against the Soviets ended, you withdrew and went home without thinking what your radicalizing of Afghanistan to create an anti-Soviet narrative would lead to. The seeds of the extremist views you used to win that war weren't going to suddenly start producing computer chips: they were going to breed terrorism and extremism."

    "The Pakistani nation is still paying for those seeds that you planted," he said.

    The interior minister further said that the US did nothing for the 3.5 million Afghan refugees Pakistan allowed into its territory during the Soviet-Afghan war.

    "Not one Syrian refugee is given entry into the US but we allowed 3.5m Afghan refugees who had come to Pakistan to fight your war against the Soviets; what did you ever do for them?" he questioned.

    The minister also said that Pakistani forces' anti-terrorism drive is the very reason terrorism remains in check in the region.

    "We are playing an integral role at both international and regional levels to maintain international peace," he said. "We have battled forces that are headquartered in Afghanistan. We have sacrificed our troops in [Operation] Raddul Fasad to rid this region of this menace."

    Iqbal also advised the Trump administration to not let itself get manipulated by India, saying: "If President Trump and company want peace in Afghanistan, they should see it from their own perspective and not India's."

    Reiterating that Afghanistan's stability is of utmost importance to Pakistan, he said: "Pakistan is the only country that shares such a large border with Afghanistan. Hence, I want to respectfully tell President Trump that no one has more at stake in Afghanistan's stability than Pakistan. We not only have brotherly relations with Afghanistan but will also do all we can for its peace."
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  5. khansaheeb

    khansaheeb FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,349
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,264 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    What a sickening portfolio of subservience.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  6. alphapak

    alphapak FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    412
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Ratings:
    +0 / 591 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The Government and Army only trust dollars. Whoever flashes
    money in front of them they will sell themselves even if they
    get humiliated in the process.
     
  7. ghazi52

    ghazi52 ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    21,422
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Ratings:
    +23 / 29,683 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    In case of US action, Pakistan is ready: DG ISPR
    January 3, 2018


    [​IMG]

    DG ISPR Major General Asif Ghafoor.

    In the wake US President Donald Trump’s scathing statement against Pakistan, army spokesperson said on Wednesday the country will not compromise over its dignity, and peace in the region was not possible until issues with India were resolved.

    In his first tweet of the year, Trump said the US ‘foolishly’ gave aid to Pakistan over the course of 15 years but Islamabad remained deceitful by providing safe havens to ‘terrorists’ from Afghanistan.

    Speaking to a private news channel, Major General Asif Ghafoor said that the Pakistani nation’s collective response to Trump’s tweet was a positive sign.

    He noted that Pakistan and the United States were still friends, and the relationship between the two countries went through ups and downs.

    “We are friends and allies and war cannot be fought with allies,” he said. “There are several occasions where Pakistan has sided with the United States… at one time Pakistan had the option to become the ally of Russia but it opted to join hands with the US instead.”

    He said that in case the US took action against Pakistan, it would be responded in accordance with the aspirations of the Pakistani people.

    Ghafoor said India’s destabilising role was the biggest obstacle in regional peace, and it did not want Pakistan to succeed in its war against terrorism.

    The DG ISPR said that the Coalition Support Fund was meant for the war in Afghanistan. “Pakistan and the United States are allies and they need to work together,” he added. “We have taken action against the Haqqani network and its effects will be visible in due time.”

    In response to the US president’s statement, the country’s civil and military leadership on Tuesday showed an unprecedented restraint, saying they would not act in haste despite the onslaught.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. Kabira

    Kabira ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    10,025
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Ratings:
    +11 / 7,854 / -21
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    [​IMG]

    Interestingly as Pakistan-US relations worsen, our people die less and less in the hands of terrorists each year. No more bastard CIA agents in Pakistan either.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  9. ghazi52

    ghazi52 ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    21,422
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Ratings:
    +23 / 29,683 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    US gave Pakistan lies and deceit, not the other way around, says Musharraf

    January 3, 2018


    [​IMG]


    Former president General (retd) Pervez Musharraf says Pakistan has always been sincere to the US in fight against terrorism but it was the US, which betrayed Pakistan every now and then.

    Talking to Express News on Tuesday, Musharraf said the money the US ‘spent’ on Pakistan was only because of the services the Pakistani nation rendered in fighting the war in its own backyard.

    The former military chief emphasised that the US can assist Pakistan in figuring out the targets but any strategy should be led by Pakistan.

    He noted that during his presidency, Pakistan always stood by the US but America would often backtrack on it promises.
    Musharraf defended, as an apt decision, Pakistan’s joining of the war against terrorism September 11, 2001 attacks in New York and Washington.

    “The entire world, including China, was with the US against Taliban. We made the right decision to engage in the war and I still stand by it,” he remarked.

    Musharraf spoke after US President Donald Trump’s abrasive tweet on New Year accused Pakistan of ‘lies and deceit’.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. idune

    idune ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    13,097
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Ratings:
    +4 / 11,545 / -14
    Country:
    Bangladesh
    Location:
    United States
    These are good stats and Pakistani response across the board are in unison. Order of the day need to be that Pakistan needs to be on offensive rather than responding to US statements. Cancel all high level contact and visit from US. Stop or restrict supply through Pakistan. Pakistani central bank already allowed trading with Yuan and that will go long way if US try to be foolish pushing trade transactions. Most important part is to weed out US beneficiary class inside defense forces, institutions and in politics. If there is a need to understand how that can be done Turkey is latest and perfect example. Pakistan can leverage Turkish know how to cleanse its institutions and move on path of true strategic independence.
     
  11. Iqbal Ali

    Iqbal Ali SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,693
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2017
    Ratings:
    +4 / 5,652 / -3
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Canada
    Although Musharraf can be idiotic at times. I do agree with him on this one.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  12. cocomo

    cocomo FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    975
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,369 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    I believe acknowledging one's mistakes is the first step towards correcting them.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  13. SorryNotSorry

    SorryNotSorry FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    953
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    Ratings:
    +0 / 706 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    United States
    For all those looking at China as your next messiah- what lessons do China’s track record of assisting nations/ recent partnerships teach you? Curious to hear what you guys take away from this.
     
  14. RedRock

    RedRock FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    85
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2014
    Ratings:
    +0 / 71 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Hey

    These three statements(underlined above) are very well put. So far the boys have held themselves very well and are holding their own in the game. But, lets not get carried away too much regarding what we will do if they take action. The Rottweiler across the hills is hurt and licking its wounds. It is bound to bite around and unfortunately we are the ones it has turned to. So we get bit a few times, no big deal. Lets not give Trump a reason to show off his military might which he is itching to do(that is what his script says). He is an actor; treat him and his actions as such. A few drones strikes will be all, or probably an incursion by troops(highly doubt that but could be possible). Our response should not be using physical force. Rather we should target the logistics; increase the cost of transferring goods and eventually if they go too far(drones in a major city) then block it all together and shoot down any plane (unmanned) crossing over.

    The reason i am saying not to use force is because i feel this is a bluff. It just has to be, the US still needs us(why? that is too long to discuss here). This behavior by Uncle Sam is just to get into bed with the Indians and to prove to them that the US is completely breaking off from Pakistan. We need to have a massive diplomatic push in the EU because they too have troops there and would not want to see more deaths, more money going down the drain and less help from us). We need to hear some of their heads of states taking our side. So far its just China and Turkey, hopefully it improves by tomorrow or day after.

    Also, i feel the DG ISPR needs to be more candid with the Pakistani public, to let them know of what the Americans could do and that we as a nation need to be CALM and UNITED against this blatant act of BULLYING. The big bully is hurt and its going to throw its weight around; we can handle it, this too shall pass.

    Cheers
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. Iqbal Ali

    Iqbal Ali SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,693
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2017
    Ratings:
    +4 / 5,652 / -3
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Canada
    Nice try dingbat.

    China is hardly a messiah, but a good ally.

    Now shut your mouth.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1