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History of the looting of the Indian army in the war of liberation , and reasons of helping us (Bangladesh)

Atlas

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You are right. It was bangladeshi bombers, bangladeshi tanks, bangladeshi artillery and bangladeshi aircraft carrier fighting the war
We almost won the war before India won. Before India came , East Bengal Regiment was using their own weapons that are Pakistani weapons.

Ziaur Rahman looted Pakistani weapon supply and distributed into freedom fighters.

There were also other weapons too from cantonment.

India showed tank ,but if you study the geography of Bangladesh, tanks are useless in most of places.

Our soil is soft and not good for large scale tank battle.

Aircraft carrier later came but that was not necessary. It was show off! Indian naval blockade wasn't necessary to win our warfare.

Pakistan army from former west Pakistan was not familiar with the land of East Pakistan , so there was no reason for them to win the unknown land where civilians under their Eastern command Bengali soldiers Rebelled!
 

IndiaIsBad

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We almost won the war before India won. Before India came , East Bengal Regiment was using their own weapons that are Pakistani weapons.

Ziaur Rahman looted Pakistani weapon supply and distributed into freedom fighters.

There were also other weapons too from cantonment.

India showed tank ,but if you study the geography of Bangladesh, tanks are useless in most of places.

Our soil is soft and not good for large scale tank battle.

Aircraft carrier later came but that was not necessary. It was show off! Indian naval blockade wasn't necessary to win our warfare.

Pakistan army from former west Pakistan was not familiar with the land of East Pakistan , so there was no reason for them to win the unknown land where civilians under their Eastern command Bengali soldiers Rebelled!
You are right. India did nothing. Pakistan was defeated by a rag tag bangladeshi rebels. I am sure all Pakistanis who were part of the war will agree with you.
 

Baibars_1260

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I am sure when the Major General was punished, Indian army would have done an internal investigation into any looting by the rank and file and given punishment accordingly. We did not hide the fact, as there was no official sanction. Indian army as you have detailed subsequently acted very professionally.
We may have deviated from the thread:
I was referring to individual looting or unauthorized acquisitions that did happen. Our Bangladeshi guests here are referring to authorized removal of West Pakistani military assets. An anti-tank gun is far more important than a Sony transistor set. I will let them explain how significant that was. We know that a BD military delegation subsequently visited India in 1972, to discuss return of captured West Pakistani war materiel. It is unclear what the Indian army would have done with most of those assets, even if they had taken them to India. Pakistani and Indian ammunition for example was dissimilar

The Indian Armed Forces acted professionally only as far as West Pakistani civilians and armed forces personnel were concerned according to the Geneva Convention and the Rules of War. There was fraternization, which was the first cause of friction between Bangladesh and India. Even the "Stranded Pakistanis " of the labor class were escorted safely to refugee camps under the ICRC. The Geneva and Mirpur camps are an Indian Army legacy.

It is often forgotten that India inserted itself in a civil war. The Indian campaign was not a recapture of its own territory such as the Soviet recapture of Stalingrad. The then East Pakistan was a constituent territory of Pakistan, with a significant number of bureaucrats, engineers of public works, and all manner of civil servants of West Pakistani origin who has been living in East Pakistan for at least two decades. They had settled homes, wives, school going children . These were middle and upper middle class families and at that time Pakistan was ahead of India in consumerism and with a healthy economy was able to import most appliances, and consumer durables that for India was lower on the priority list. These homes were as fully stocked as any upper class home in South Delhi today. When a family suddenly becomes an alien in the land they will do anything to save their lives and escape. A Toshiba TV or a Volkswagon Beetle left behind is of little consequence. The closest parallel is when Idi Amin of Uganda expelled hundreds of thousands of Gujarati Hindu citizens who were suddenly rendered homeless. There was no civil war or loss of life in Uganda but massive looting and capture of the homes.

Fraternizing with enemy civilians is against the Rules of War which the Indian Army did not follow. Though this worked well for the 45,000 civilians leaving East Pakistan. They left along with the Indian Army to intenment camps in West Bengal and were interned under adequate conditions before being repatriated to Pakistan by air, or by special trains to Wagah. They carried their possessions of value with them to Pakistan.

It is a grey area if the Indian Army was professional or not because it did violate the non-fraternization rule.

On cars:

Looted or "gifted" cars could easily be identified in India at that time where the IA staff cars were all Ambassadors. It was much harder to detect a Sony Cassette Tape Deck in a jawan's home in Pauri Garhwal.
 

Atlas

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On the question of why your General was not allowed, I am guessing it may be because Pakistani forces were fearful of Bangladeshi soldiers killing them in revenge. India had to guarantee Pak soldiers' safety which was part of surrender agreement.
I will reply this part now. Bangladeshi soldiers were actually East Bengal Regiment who were well trained professional soldiers from PMA, not necessarily drunk. So your assumption is actually baseless. They would never harm Pakistani soldiers, no professional army would do it when enemy surrender.

Even kidnappers never kill hostage , but you are accusing our soldiers lower than kidnappers who kidnap to get some money.

But since you are a gentleman Indian unlike others , so I will give you benefit of doubt that you didn't try to insult out freedom fighter by this hilourios assumption.
 

Bilal9

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If the only reason for Indian Army to enter East Pak was to loot and not to liberate, then it could have entered on when 98% was liberated, lets say on Dec 15th and not loose any Indian soldier. Why would India sacrifice 3000 soldiers?
And please reply if BD govt ever complained about this loot then or now?
[/QUOTE]

Since you want logical answers.

1. Do not discount the ineptitude of your generals or the lack of training for your soldiers.
2. Indian Army is not used to fight in our territory or against Pakistani troops.
3. BD Govt. shut the hell up because they know what the answer will be. We have seen enough of the same in the last fifty years. Waste of time.
 

masterchief_mirza

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You are right. India did nothing. Pakistan was defeated by a rag tag bangladeshi rebels. I am sure all Pakistanis who were part of the war will agree with you.
You are intentionally overlooking the terrorist tactics employed by your employees in the mukhti bahini. The major concern of East Pakistani officers was non-Bengali civilians being overrun by MB terrorists under the direction of the IA. This was starting to happen and Pakistani military officers simply could not sustain a war against 2 opponents and ensure civilian safety simultaneously. The liberation of Bangladesh was the world's first example of modern ethnocentric terrorism actually working in the subcontinent, and the organisers of said terror gleefully rewarding themselves.
 

Bilal9

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You are right. India did nothing. Pakistan was defeated by a rag tag bangladeshi rebels. I am sure all Pakistanis who were part of the war will agree with you.
The war was 90% won by ambushes, guerrilla war and attrition.

It is well documented.

Go and do your research.
 

IndiaIsBad

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You are intentionally overlooking the terrorist tactics employed by your employees in the mukhti bahini. The major concern of East Pakistani officers was non-Bengali civilians being overrun by MB terrorists under the direction of the IA. This was starting to happen and Pakistani military officers simply could not sustain a war against 2 opponents and ensure civilian safety simultaneously. The liberation of Bangladesh was the world's first example of modern ethnocentric terrorism actually working in the subcontinent, and the organisers of said terror gleefully rewarding themselves.
So you are saying that India helped create bangladesh?
The war was 90% won by ambushes, guerrilla war and attrition.

It is well documented.

Go and do your research.
So india had no role at all. Pakistan's strong army was defeated completely by bangladeshi rebels right?
 

masterchief_mirza

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So you are saying that India helped create bangladesh?

So india had no role at all. Pakistan's strong army was defeated completely by bangladeshi rebels right?
I'm saying Indian funded terrorism tipped the balance.

Terrorism can work. Of course it can. Sensible western nations still believe in its potential and deploy it if they feel it can have a localised impact and be reasonably controlled. It is also cost effective for rich nations engaged in nation building that are far removed from a conflict theatre.
 

Bilal9

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You have again avoided answering if BD govt ever complained about the alleged Indian looting. If not, we would have to wonder if this allegation is even true.

I already gave my hypothesis on why Osmani was probably not invited to the surrender. Pak forces needed to be protected from BD forces after surrender.
So Osmani himself (or any of his commanders) would have jumped with dagger on Niazi and the surrendering Pak troops?

Better explanation is - India and its Army wanted to hog the limelight and all the glory, as it is still doing today, to lord it over Pakistani psychologically.

Selfish and narrow minded to say the least.

Truth is, Indian Army was forbidden to paratroop down in some local Bangladeshi commands, especially in Tangail Madhupur jungle under Kaderia Bahini.

India wanted to focus on the news, media and pictures, like they always do. And the looting too.
 

magra

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You are wrong. India didn't help create Bangladesh. They only shelter our refugees , so that later they could invade us to burgle our glory.
You have set this in your mind and you would continue to believe this no matter what. You are gone in your hatred. I pity you.

But since 2018 , Bangladesh is decisively out from Indian influence politically and China took the place.
Yours is an independent country and can take independent decisions. Ofcourse, there will be a rivalry for influence in BD between India and China. BD is smart to play on this rivalry and extract benefits from both.

Thanks to Hasina for 2018 sham election.

If India could use influence , the election wouldn't completely rigged!
What are you trying to say? India rigged your election?
 

IndiaIsBad

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I'm saying Indian funded terrorism tipped the balance.

Terrorism can work. Of course it can. Sensible western nations still believe in its potential and deploy it if they feel it can have a localised impact and be reasonably controlled. It is also cost effective for rich nations engaged in nation building that are far removed from a conflict theatre.
Exactly. And actually East Bengal regiment was made by professional soldiers from PMA.

So Indian help wasn't needed.


No they will never agree with me. No professional soldiers want to agree with the humiliating defeat by a rebel force that was made with majority of civilians and few rebel army personnel.

However,you should not be upset. As East Pakistanis ( Bengalis) were fighting for democracy against Pakistani military regime before freedom war stared.

So actually our ancestors were fighting for restoration of democracy that would be beneficial for you too.

And now you have democracy, and nothing is isolated ,but all are continuation of Bengali movement of restoration of democracy in Pakistan prior to our freedom war!
So its your word vs pakistanis then?
 

Atlas

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India rigged your election?
No India wanted to prevent rigging and wanted to throw Bangladesh govt , because it was politically stable.
So its your word vs pakistanis then?
Actually I am using portrait view of mobile now ( I am in bed ,it's 12.47 am) , and I am not seeing flags in the view ! Your nick is indiaisbad , so I thought you are a Pakistani and trolling !

That's why I reply like this . Okay deleted my message. It was a mistake!

I will now reply to an Indian. And my reply is , I replied you already many times in the thread. Read them all. I have nothing more to say!

You have set this in your mind and you would continue to believe this no matter what. You are gone in your hatred.
I have no time to hate India and Indians.

I pity you.
So you better pity yourself and your country and it's propaganda first.

Do pity on your coward burglar Army, it shall be better for you, because you are nurturing the coward Army with your hard earning tax money!
 
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magra

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We may have deviated from the thread:
I was referring to individual looting or unauthorized acquisitions that did happen. Our Bangladeshi guests here are referring to authorized removal of West Pakistani military assets. An anti-tank gun is far more important than a Sony transistor set. I will let them explain how significant that was. We know that a BD military delegation subsequently visited India in 1972, to discuss return of captured West Pakistani war materiel. It is unclear what the Indian army would have done with most of those assets, even if they had taken them to India. Pakistani and Indian ammunition for example was dissimilar
I would like to know more about what you are mentioning about weapons and war machinery being captured and taken to India. Can you please give sources. And what happened to them. Were they returned to Pakistan or Bangladesh or put up in Indian museum, or actually used in Indian army etc?

Fraternizing with enemy civilians is against the Rules of War which the Indian Army did not follow. Though this worked well for the 45,000 civilians leaving East Pakistan. They left along with the Indian Army to intenment camps in West Bengal and were interned under adequate conditions before being repatriated to Pakistan by air, or by special trains to Wagah. They carried their possessions of value with them to Pakistan.

It is a grey area if the Indian Army was professional or not because it did violate the non-fraternization rule.
What exactly do you mean by fraternizing here. What exactly happened. Can you please elaborate on that?
I will reply this part now. Bangladeshi soldiers were actually East Bengal Regiment who were well trained professional soldiers from PMA, not necessarily drunk. So your assumption is actually baseless. They would never harm Pakistani soldiers, no professional army would do it when enemy surrender.

Even kidnappers never kill hostage , but you are accusing our soldiers lower than kidnappers who kidnap to get some money.

But since you are a gentleman Indian unlike others , so I will give you benefit of doubt that you didn't try to insult out freedom fighter by this hilourios assumption.
I do not know if your General was stopped or not. And if yes, what were the reasons. I just hypothized one possible reason. Or it may be a request by Niazi as he may not want to show to the world that they are surrendering to BD forces.

I am not questioning the professionalism of regular BD soldiers. However, Mukti Bahini (irregular) did engage in mass looting and rioting as they were drunk in victory and wanted to exact revenge on W. Pak soldiers. Indian Army was duty bound as per Geneva convention to protect surrendered Pak troops.
 

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