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History of the looting of the Indian army in the war of liberation , and reasons of helping us (Bangladesh)

Atlas

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If a father gave his life to save you, and later his son harasses you, do you then forget the father who saved you but instead level allegations on him?
Again no one saved us or gave their life to save us . I never recognised Indian help , although I was never anti Indian before NRC and CAA! Bangladesh was independent because our countless people shades blood for this freedom. India later came when we already won , and they came to take the cake!

But I am not rejecting that India took refugee and also used soviet veto for us , it was indeed helpful. Sending troops was not necessary, when we already won the war. If they sent troops , at least just after 26 march, we would recognise it!
 

magra

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Again no one saved us or gave their life to save us . I never recognised Indian help , although I was never anti Indian before NRC and CAA! Bangladesh was independent because our countless people shades blood for this freedom. India later came when we already won , and they came to take the cake!

But I am not rejecting that India took refugee and also used soviet veto for us , it was indeed helpful. Sending troops was not necessary, when we already won the war. If they sent troops , at least just after 26 march, we would recognise it!
As I already explained you, India was neither militarily nor diplomatically prepared for war in March.

The ensuing months were used to train and mobilize the army to fight in the east, train Mukti Bahini, gather intelligence, wait for winter, so the frozen Himalayas are a barrier to China, sign Soviet treaty which was crucial in the war, raise world consciousness at various forums against the atrocities committed thus binding the hands of Americans and British to join the war beyond sending few ships.

So whether you recognize or not, the facts wont change. Had you already secured independence, Pak army would have surrendered to BD forces, not to the joint India-BD force headed by General Singh.
 

Atlas

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As I already explained you, India was neither militarily nor diplomatically prepared for war in March.
Then why they suddenly joined just before we won the war? To take the cake indeed, to show it as India Pakistan war , and Indeed to convince people that she is our saviour, so that they can divide and rule people for decade after decade by hanging the help myth of freedom fight time Aid! And the reason was also explained already.


So your explanation has no merit!
Soviet treaty which was crucial in the war,
I recognised this help. Without this help our freedom would be delayed if USA send troops to catch freedom fighters. Although We did not forget Vietnam, so indeed we would be freed, but it would take some more time , and that's all!

thus binding the hands of Americans and British to join the war beyond sending few ships.
They directly involved after India involved uninvited. So there was no Involvement of USA and Britain before India directly attacked Pakistan. So you should try again and in different way ! So they would never join the war if India would not be involved directly
So whether you recognize or not, the facts wont change.
So the fact is, Indian soldiers came uninvited tp burgle our glory. They never won against Pakistan , in 1965 they faced a humiliating defeat , and in 1971 they came to take the cake by attacking a fleeing army . This is the evidence that Indian army is made of cowards. Because cowards do not fight , just join last time to take the spoils of war.

@magra
 
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magra

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Then why they suddenly joined just before we won the war? To take the cake indeed, to show it as India Pakistan war , and Indeed to convince people that she is our saviour, so that they can divide and rule people for decade after decade ny hanging the help of freedom fight time Aid!
To avoid global backlash and labelling India as the aggressor, we waited for Pakistan to attack us. In the meantime, we helped Mukti Bahini and did covert operations. As soon as Pakistan launched air raids on western sector on Dec 3, Indian army formally entered the war.

It would have taken many months or years and many more lives without Indian army entering the conflict.
Western powers knew this and hence only when Pakistan was about the capitulate in the east due to Indian army involvement, they sent ships. They had no need to enter before since you were weakening Pakistan but not enough to win yet.

They directly involved after India involved uninvited. So there was no Involvement of USA and Britain before India directly attacked Pakistan. So you should try again and in different way ! So they would never join the war if India would not be involved directly
Bangladesh govt in exile was operating from Indian soil and you say we entered uninvited. Your logic is funny.

They never won against Pakistan , in 1965 they faced a humiliating defeat , and in 1971 they came to take the cake by attacking a fleeing army . This is the evidence that Indian army is made of cowards. Because cowards do not fight , just join last time to take the spoils of war.
We never lost against Pak. In 1948, we entered Kashmir conflict and drove Pak irregulars back several miles before going to UN for a peaceful solution.

We were at our weakest in 1965 after the 1962 debacle, and after Pak attacked us, we held firm and took the war back to Pak and forced a stalemate. Had the war stretched longer, we would have won as Pak's supply situation was lower than India. But we had no intention to increase bloodshed or capturing Pak's land, as we were in the war to defend our borders.

Funny how you take Pak's side who did not care about you. In 1965, they cared only about west side and left East Pakistan with meager forces to defend.

You are an ungrateful and low-life, if you call your saviors as cowards. And I say this to you only, not to the other Bangladeshis who dont subscribe to your propaganda.
 

Baibars_1260

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And please reply if BD govt ever complained about this loot then or now?
Actually more than the BD government that didn't even exist as a functioning body, the Indian government, and the COAS were themselves concerned about the looting .

See the video by Shekhar Gupta below and scroll to point 10.36.
A senior ( decorated) Major General was dismissed for looting.
If a Major General could loot, it is very likely that there was looting by the rank and file elements also, though to what extent is unknown.

 
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magra

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Actually more than the BD government that didn't even exist a functioning body, the Indian government, and the COAS were themselves concerned about the looting .

See the video by Shekhar Gupta below and scroll to point 10.36.
A senior ( decorated) Major General was dismissed for looting.
If a Major General could loot, it is very likely that there was looting by the rank and file elements also, though to what extent is unknown.

Thank you for chipping in. I will go through this video.

If I consider your statement to be true, it means that any looting which happened had no official sanction and in fact those found looting were punished.
Do not play word game. It was 1965 and Bengali soldiers played major role in that war. For some of your help , read my explanation again that you missed.

Issues between India and BD after 1971

But that help was not necessary . Look at vietnam, USA did not defeat them. So it's better , you do not repeat!

They sent ship to counter direct involvement of Soviet through Indian direct presence
I am sure East Pak soldiers played their role in 1965 war. What I objected to was your statement that India was defeated, which was not the case. Give me any neutral source which says so.

On all the issues after 1971, I said I will discuss only after you take back the unproven allegation of loot. I cant discuss issues with people who insult the Indian army coming to your aid.

It took Vietnam decades to defeat US and millions of lives lost. Did you want to be waiting till 1990s for independence? Half of the BD population would have been residing in WB and Assam till then. What should we have done with them?

When India got to know that US and Britain are sending their ships, India invoked the security pact and asked Soviet help. It was then that Soviets sent their flotilla to counter. It was not the other way round.
 
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Baibars_1260

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Thank you for chipping in. I will go through this video.

If I consider your statement to be true, it means that any looting which happened had no official sanction and in fact those found looting were punished.
Anecdotal accounts of West Pakistanis stranded in Bangladesh give a mixed account of the "looting".
The Indian Army always protected West Pakistanis ( particularly civil servants railway officers, and the families of armed forces personnel ) ,escorting them to safe houses and refugee camps.
When they vacated their posh homes in the upper class districts of Dhaka, example : The Gulshan and Dhanmondi area, those homes would have been looted anyway. So West Pakistani civilians often "gave away ", consumer items like TV sets, audio Hi Fi equipment and kitchen appliances to the Indian troops as a "pay off" or merely gratitude for the protection offered. Pakistan did not manufacture these items at that time so these were high quality imports usually from Japan. Indian Army officers often accepted these "gifts" which were of no use to those heading to internment and POW camps. The Indian Armed forces allowed them to keep small items of value such as jewelry, mementos, family albums. Cash was of no use to these families either.

It is a little known fact that due to linguistic similarities there was much fraternization between Indian Army personnel and the West Pakistani population in Bangladesh especially amongst upper middle class families. The Dhaka Sheraton then known as the Intercontinental which was the staff headquarters of the theater of operations had become a focal point of many "deals".

The Indian policy was neutral to fraternization with the upper and middle class West Pakistanis though it discouraged fraternization with the lower class who were interned in camps under the Red Cross.

It is likely that a significant section of Indian Army personnel returned with souvenirs which wouldn't be classified strictly as looting because this was gifted away under the circumstances then .

There may have been cars gifted away also but because India manufactured only three types of cars ( Ambassador, Premier and one other ) it would have been difficult to maintain these due to lack of spares.

It is ironic that West Pakistanis preferred to give these gifts away to returning Indian army officers rather than leave them behind for Bangladesh. The empty homes in Mohammadpur, Dhanmondi, Lalmatia, Gulshan remained stark reminders of those who had left. These were occupied by squatters for a long time till H.M.Ershad cleared some of them out and the homes were declared government property and auctioned off.
 
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magra

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Anecdotal accounts of West Pakistanis stranded in Bangladesh give a mixed account of the "looting".
The Indian Army always protected West Pakistanis ( particularly civil servants railway officers, and the families of armed forces personnel ) ,escorting them to safe houses and refugee camps.
When they vacated their posh homes in the upper class districts of Dhaka, example : The Gulshan and Dhanmondi area, those homes would have been looted anyway. So West Pakistani civilians often "gave away ", consumer items like TV sets, audio Hi Fi equipment and kitchen appliances to the Indian troops as a "pay off" or merely gratitude for the protection offered. Pakistan did not manufacture these items at that time so these were high quality imports usually from Japan. Indian Army officers often accepted these "gifts" which were of no use to those heading to internment and POW camps.

It is a little known fact that due to linguistic similarities there was much fraternization between Indian Army personnel and the West Pakistani population in Bangladesh especially amongst upper middle class families. The Dhaka Sheraton then known as the Intercontinental which was the staff headquarters of the theater of operations had become a focal point of many "deals".

The Indian policy was neutral to fraternization with the upper and middle class West Pakistanis though it discouraged fraternization with the lower class who were interned in camps under the Red Cross.

It is likely that a significant section of Indian Army personnel returned with souvenirs which wouldn't be classified strictly as looting because this was gifted away under the circumstances then .

There may have been cars gifted away also but because India manufactured only three types of cars ( Ambassador, Premier and one other ) it would have been difficult to maintain these due to lack of spares.
Cant comment on this as this clearly happened under the radar, if it happened, and never was heard before. But what is clear is that there was no official sanction.

As per the video you shared, a decorated Major General was dismissed for bringing just one car. And this was self-identified, we did not wait for anyone to tell us. So clearly any mass-scale looting would not have happened, as that would have clearly been punished.
 

Baibars_1260

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As per the video you shared, a decorated Major General was dismissed for bringing just one car. And this was self-identified, we did not wait for anyone to tell us. So clearly any mass-scale looting would not have happened, as that would have clearly been punished.
Obviously a Major General who was looting himself would look the other way at the rank and file members under his command doing the same thing .

I stand by my anecdotal account, having spoken to those who made it back to Pakistan; which they wouldn't have if the Indian Army had looked the other way or even participated in the plunder. It does go to the credit of the Indian Army that they were able to save, rescue, and safely deliver back to Pakistan 45,000 members of West Pakistani civil, railway, telecommunications, medical personnel , as well private sector executives and their families ( example: Isphahani group). If they got some refrigerators, TV sets, audio Hi Fi, sets in the bargain it was a small price to pay for survival.

There was looting after the Indian Army left when the homes of those who had left were stripped bare, and got occupied by squatters. But that usually happens in a Civil War.
 

magra

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Obviously a Major General who was looting himself would look the other way at the rank and file members under his command doing the same thing .

I stand by my anecdotal account, having spoken to those who made it back to Pakistan; which they wouldn't have if the Indian Army had looked the other way or even participated in the plunder. It does go to the credit of the Indian Army that they were able to save, rescue, and safely deliver back to Pakistan 45,000 members of West Pakistani civil, railway, telecommunications, medical personnel , as well private sector executives and their families ( example: Isphahani group). If they got some refrigerators, TV sets, audio Hi Fi, sets in the bargain it was a small price to pay for survival.

There was looting after the Indian Army left when the homes of those who had left were stripped bare, and got occupied by squatters. But that usually happens in a Civil War.
I am sure when the Major General was punished, Indian army would have done an internal investigation into any looting by the rank and file and given punishment accordingly. We did not hide the fact, as there was no official sanction. Indian army as you have detailed subsequently acted very professionally.

I commend your anecdotal account. It takes courage to praise the enemy.
 

IndiaIsBad

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If it was not for this thread, I would have never learnt that India helped create Bangladesh in 1971 due to national interest. Damn that India, always looking out for its national interests.
 

Atlas

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If it was not for this thread, I would have never learnt that India helped create Bangladesh in 1971 due to national interest. Damn that India, always looking out for its national interests.
You are wrong. India didn't help create Bangladesh. They only shelter our refugees , so that later they could invade us to burgle our glory.

But since 2018 , Bangladesh is decisively out from Indian influence politically and China took the place.

Thanks to Hasina for 2018 sham election.

If India could use influence , the election wouldn't completely rigged!
 

KedarT

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To avoid global backlash and labelling India as the aggressor, we waited for Pakistan to attack us. In the meantime, we helped Mukti Bahini and did covert operations. As soon as Pakistan launched air raids on western sector on Dec 3, Indian army formally entered the war.

It would have taken many months or years and many more lives without Indian army entering the conflict.
Western powers knew this and hence only when Pakistan was about the capitulate in the east due to Indian army involvement, they sent ships. They had no need to enter before since you were weakening Pakistan but not enough to win yet.
I think our timing of entering the war was perfect. Went in, finished it in a couple of days with minimal bloodshed. Correlating it with chess, consolidating it in the middle game and then playing the perfect end-game.
 

IndiaIsBad

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You are wrong. India didn't help create Bangladesh. They only shelter our refugees , so that later they could invade us to burgle our glory.

But since 2018 , Bangladesh is decisively out from Indian influence politically and China took the place.

Thanks to Hasina for 2018 sham election.

If India could use influence , the election wouldn't completely rigged!
You are right. It was bangladeshi bombers, bangladeshi tanks, bangladeshi artillery and bangladeshi aircraft carrier fighting the war
and then it complains about Pakistan meddling in India's internal affairs. the cheek of it.
True man. Instead of simply meddling, Pakistan should divide india into two in a matter of 13 days. That will show them
 

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