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History of the looting of the Indian army in the war of liberation , and reasons of helping us (Bangladesh)

LeGenD

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The post was based on someone's analysis in a group al and unortunately the post is deleted.

But in order to keep the thread alive , I have posted another reference from a book of Barrister Moinul Islam. I hope this will be considered as stroger evidence.

Post #354 , and also a news from BBC where it clearly said that Indian army destroyed almost all documents of our libration war. Please take a look at post #375. Both posts has connection, as if India would not desytroy documents , we surely would get more numbers of concrete evidences.

Thanks and regards.

@LeGenD
You need to revisit your opening post.
 

Atlas

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Indians did many things off the book. I thought they kept the Mercedes s class niazi used... well they lost it and don’t have any documentation of its last known location... they suspect it could have been scrapped too. When inquired why the car was taken to india, the reason given was to fix something.... well if they are going to take a broken car from a war torn country why is it unbelievable for some to believe they looted many other things is beyond me.
a small example is why did we have to buy arms after the war for military when east pakistan already had good enough number in their armory for EBR and miscellaneous units (I think Punjab) who were stationed before or during the war?
They had to destroy all documents so that they can divide and rule us through some of their moles and fifth columnist.

But there is a sayig in Bangla and that is ,"Allahr Mar, Duniyar bar" .

That's the reason their own poltical parties raised question of the destruction of these documents.
You need to revisit your opening post.
Brother, i said that this link is not working anymore. So I am sure this article is deleted. And that's why I posted another stronger reference from book of Barrister moinul Hussein (check post #354) that also support the OP. You can add this post to OP for the reference of the thread regarding the looting of Indian army. Here is the post of stronger evidence ( please consider adding it to OP), please take a look at the post bellow.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hist...ng-us-bangladesh.703423/page-24#post-13012391

Also please take a look at post #375 that is related, and based on BBC news ,about destruction of document of war by Indian army.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hist...ng-us-bangladesh.703423/page-25#post-13014250


Also read about Moinul Hussen here. He is a well known man.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainul_Hosein
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainul_Hosein

@LeGenD
 
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Bilal9

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This question should be directed to your govt / military. Why do you think they never raised this point?
He asked you a straightforward question and you answered it with another question.

Obviously you are dancing around the issue because you don't have an answer.

Just say it.
 

leonblack08

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Leon,
I must reply, even though I had exited this sub-forum. I do wish to clarify the following.
I have no bias or vitriol against the people of Bangladesh. Nor do I have any bias or vitriol against the language and culture of the people of Bangladesh. My understanding of Bengali culture may be imperfect, but then I wouldn't completely understand so many other cultures such as Malay or Indonesian from countries so far removed geographically from my land. So if I have misunderstood I do apologize. I stand by to be educated on your language and culture.

2. I am not enamored of the Indian Armed Forces. Since they are the prime enemy to my nation I have to dispassionately appreciate the strength of the Indian Armed Forces which in conventional terms does outmatch my nation's capabilities. Through sheer grit, courage and expert handling of our resources and with help from our ally China we are able to hold a much larger adversary off balance. But even we know that in a full fledged war it is likely to go nuclear in a very short time . Bangladesh has no need to fight India or the Indian armed forces, and the hypothetical war game I listed was only for a reality check of not only our Bangladesh guests but also a few delusional Pakistani members who believe a war with Bangladesh and India could happen to Pakistan's benefit. If you check the earliest post I made I actually congratulated our Bangladesh guests on their boldness and caring for their country's defense.



Of course there are diverse opinions amongst Bangladeshis. I have personally visited Bangladesh and met all three types you listed.On PDF however you will find a majority of those who believe that Islamic brotherhood binds Bangladesh and Pakistan and both must stay united to face India.
Far less than Bangladeshis, I am more concerned about my own countrymen falling into a completely wrong mode of thinking.


I admire yours and other's restraint in putting up with a whole lot of insults my countrymen hurl at you and your people. They refuse to recognize that Bangladesh is a sovereign independent nation and Bangladeshis are its proud citizens.
Likewise such people do not accord the same status to their own nation Pakistan either. It is an amorphous concept of brotherhood that is proposed which is destructive to both our people's sense of national identity and pride. It is that which I am fighting.
I congratulate you on your 13 years with PDF. By contrast I have been here for only 5 months.

There are differences between our nations but moving forward if we simply acknowledge that we are Bangladeshis First or Pakistanis First it will help us understand each other better.

We want our Bangladesh guests on their sub-forum here. I would however suggest that based on our flags we restrict each other to a read only mode, and stop posting on each other's sub-forum. This way we will still know what our Bangladeshi guests are saying without interrupting their conversations.
Fair enough.

I do agree with most of your points, but there are some points I disagree with.

But let's leave it at that and end this discussion in a civil manner. Salam!
 

Bilal9

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You need to revisit your opening post.
@LeGenD bhai if you are talking about the last Facebook link in the first post then that one has been deleted.

It was either deleted by Facebook themselves at the request of Bangladesh govt. (under Digital Security Act - which Bangladesh Govt. does frequently) or the govt. asked posters to take it down, and they complied.

But I consider it highly credible as every older male family member I have my parents' age (all of whom were trained technical professionals employed with various utility services in 1971 as young employees) saw it with their own eyes .

If you go to a street corner in Dhaka today and ask anyone if Indian Military did any looting, they will all corroborate it, especially older generation who were alive in 1971 - and are still alive. This is well-established and people who try to say otherwise as India-shills, will lose their credibility instantly.

It is the divine will of Allah that all lies will be uncovered at some point. Lies and deceit by disbelievers will not be victorious.

Bangladesh Govt. is trying to ape the same Modus Operandi like Modi Govt. (who are trying to control what gets posted on Social Media in India). If a govt. is trying to cover up something or some action, than obviously there is some doubt as to the legitimacy of their actions.

India passed a new Indian law on this recently. just like Bangladesh Digital Security Act. The two administrations are one and the same in philosophy.


The bots employed by both govts. are numerous in PDF today (some in this thread) and their propaganda is proof of who their backers are.

I believe that this thread should be pinned for posterity so we can gather more proof and archive them there.
 
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Bilal9

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Indeed it is topic here. But you did not answer anything but singing hymns for India and defaming various freedom fighters., and keep provocation.



But this thing is going to be satisfactory.



যুদ্ধের দলিল নিয়ে ভারতে বিতর্ক

ভারতে বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধের সময়কার অনেক গুরুত্বপূর্ণ দলিল নষ্ট করে ফেলার খবর ফাঁস হওয়ার পর এ নিয়ে সেখানে রাজনৈতিক বিতর্ক শুরু হয়েছে

কেন এবং কিভাবে এসব দলিলপত্র ধ্বংস করা হয়েছে তা তদন্তের জন্য আজ ভারতের কয়েকটি রাজনৈতিক দল দাবী জানিয়েছে ।

বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধে অংশগ্রহণকারীদের এক সম্বর্ধনার আয়োজন করতে গিয়ে সম্প্রতি জানা যায় যে ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনীর পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় কমান্ডের কর্মকর্তারা এসব নথি ধবংস করে ফেলেছেন


ক্ষমতাসীন কংগ্রেস এর এক মুখপাত্র আজ বিবিসিকে বলেছেন যে বাংলাদেশের যুদ্ধের গুরুত্বপূণ দলিল ধ্বংসের এই ঘটনায় তারা বিস্মিত।


কংগ্রেসের অন্যতম মুখপাত্র শাকিল আহমেদ বলেন, ১৯৭১ সালের যুদ্ধ ছিল ভারতীয় ইতিহাসের অত্যন্ত গুরুত্বপূর্ণ এক অধ্যায়। পাকিস্তানী বাহিনীর ৯০ হাজার সদস্য ঐ যুদ্ধে ভারতীয় বাহিনীর কাছে আত্মসমর্পন করে৻ এরকম আত্মসমর্পনের দ্বিতীয় কোন নজির সম্ভবত বিশ্বের ইতিহাসে নেই৻ তারপরও এরকম একটি ঘটনার ঐতিহাসিক দলিল নষ্ট করে ফেলায় তারা বিস্মিত।

উল্লেখ্য এসব দলিলপত্র যখন ধ্বংস করা হয় তখন কংগ্রেসই ছিল ভারতের শাসন ক্ষমতায়।

ভারতের প্রধান বিরোধী দল বিজেপিও এই ঘটনায় বিস্ময় প্রকাশ করেছে এবং কিভাবে এরকম ঘটনা ঘটতে পারলো তার তদন্ত দাবী করেছে৻।বিজেপির একজন নেতা তথাগত রায় এর পেছনে কোন ষড়যন্ত্র থাকতে পারে বলে সন্দেহ প্রকাশ করেছেন।

ভারতের একটি কমিউনিষ্ট দল সিপিআইও এ ঘটনার নিন্দা করে বলেছে, দলিলপত্র ধ্বংস করা ঠিক হয়নি।


কোলকাতায় রাখা ছিল দলিলপত্র

বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধে সময়কার এসব দলিল কলকাতায় ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনীর পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় সদর দপ্তরে রাখা ছিল। যুদ্ধ শেষ হওয়ার পরপরই তা কুটি কুটি করে ছিঁড়ে ফেলা হয়।

৭১ সালে বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিযুদ্ধ চলাকালীন পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় কমান্ডের চিফ অব স্টাফ লেফটেন্যান্ট জেনারেল জে এফ আর জ্যাকব একাত্তর সালের যুদ্ধের এসব অমূল্য দলিল নষ্ট করার বিষয়টি নিশ্চিত করেছেন।

জেনারেল জ্যাকব বিবিসি বাংলাকে বলেন যে ১৯৭৪ সালে তিনি যখন পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় সদর দপ্তরে প্রধান হিসেবে দায়িত্বভার গ্রহণ করেন সে সময় তিনি বাংলাদেশ যুদ্ধের বিভিন্ন দলিলপত্র দেখতে চেয়েছিলেন। কিন্তু, তখন তাঁকে জানানো হয় যে সেসব দলিল নষ্ট করে ফেলা হয়েছে।

তবে কার নির্দেশে এসব দলিল নষ্ট করে ফেলা হয়েছিলো সে সম্পর্কে তিনি কিছু জানাতে অপারগতা প্রকাশ করেন।

এসব দলিলাদি ধ্বংস করে ফেলার বিষয়টি এতো দিন তা গোপন রাখা হয়েছিল।

১৯৭১ সালে বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিযুদ্ধে অংশগ্রহণকারীদের জন্য সংবর্ধনার আয়োজন করতে গিয়ে কলকাতায় ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনীর পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় সদর দপ্তরের কর্মকর্তারা দলিলাদি ধ্বংস করে ফেলার এই স্পর্শকাতর বিষয়টি জানতে পারেন।

বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিবাহিনীর বিভিন্ন শিবির কোথায় ছিল এবং অন্যান্য তথ্য-উপাত্ত সংগ্রহ করতে গিয়েই এ ব্যাপারটি প্রকাশিত হয়ে পড়ে।

বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিবাহিনী সম্পর্কে বিভিন্ন তথ্য জানতে গিয়ে পূর্বাঞ্চলীয় সদর দপ্তর দেখে এ সংক্রান্ত অনেক তথ্য অথবা দলিল, যেগুলো সংরক্ষিত থাকার কথা ছিল, সেগুলো নেই। এরপর দলিলগুলো খুঁজতে সর্বাত্মক উদ্যোগ নিলেও সেগুলো আর পাওয়া যায়নি।

Google translate -

Controversy in India over war documents

Political controversy has erupted in India after reports surfaced of the destruction of many important documents during the Bangladesh War of Independence.



Several political parties in India today demanded an investigation into why and how these documents were destroyed.

While organizing a reception for the participants in the Bangladesh War of Independence, it was recently learned that the documents were destroyed by the officers of the Eastern Command of the Indian Army.

A spokesman for the ruling Congress told the BBC today that it was "shocked" by the destruction of important documents in the Bangladesh war.

Shakil Ahmed, one of the spokespersons of the Congress, said the 1971 war was a very important chapter in Indian history. The 90,000 members of the Pakistani army আত্ম surrendering to the Indian forces in the war ৻ are perhaps the second instance of such surrender in the history of the world বিস yet they are amazed at the destruction of the historical record of such an event.

Note that when these documents were destroyed, the Congress was in power in India.

India's main opposition party, the BJP, has expressed surprise at the incident and called for an investigation into how it happened. A BJP leader has expressed suspicion that there may be a conspiracy behind the verdict.

The CPIO, a communist party in India, condemned the incident, saying it was not right to destroy the documents.

Documents were kept in Kolkata

These documents from the Bangladesh War of Independence were kept at the eastern headquarters of the Indian Army in Calcutta. As soon as the war was over, it was torn to pieces.

During the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971, the Chief of Staff of the Eastern Command, Lieutenant General JFR Jacob, confirmed the destruction of these invaluable documents of the 1971 war.

General Jacob told BBC Bangla that when he took over as head of the Eastern Headquarters in 1974, he wanted to see the various documents of the Bangladesh War. However, he was then informed that the documents had been destroyed.

However, he declined to say on whose orders the documents were destroyed.

The destruction of these documents had been kept secret for so long.

While organizing a reception for the participants in the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971, the officials of the Eastern Headquarters of the Indian Army in Calcutta came to know about the sensitive issue of destruction of documents.

The matter came to light when the various camps of the Bangladesh Liberation Army were located and other information was collected.

Going to the Eastern Headquarters to know various information about the Liberation Army of Bangladesh, there is not much information or documents in this regard which were supposed to be preserved. After that every effort was made to find the documents but they were not found.

Source -https://www.bbc.com/bengali/news/2010/05/100510_mh71documents

@Shorisrip , @Bilal9 , @Homo Sapiens , @leonblack08 , @Michael Corleone and other Bangladeshi brothers may be interested to to read it too!

@magra , if you know Bengali you will understand it very clearly. If not then only google translation is your friend.
Thanks for posting this @Atlas bhai.

I did read it and this piece easily dovetails with the rest of the pieces in the overall puzzle of the large picture.

A lot of pre-planned activity happened in 1971 in the hands of the Indian Military (besides the looting and their accepting Niazi's surrender) and they destroyed all evidence so nothing incriminating can be found after the fact.

Indians had enough time to plan detailed the RAW-led saajish from 1947 until 1971.

This stinks pretty bad....
 

Atlas

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Thanks for posting this @Atlas bhai
My pleasure bhai.
I did read it and this piece easily dovetails with the rest of the pieces in the overall puzzle of the large picture.

A lot of pre-planned activity happened in 1971 in the hands of the Indian Military (besides the looting and their accepting Niazi's surrender) and they destroyed all evidence so nothing incriminating can be found after the fact.

Indians had enough time to plan detailed the RAW-led saajish from 1947 until 1971.

This stinks pretty bad....
I whole heartedly agree @Bilal9 bhai. 😍
 

The Ronin

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Sorry for the typos.

@LeGenD the three threads @Atlas is showing to you, have no connection with each other at all. Especially the last one #375 with BBC link is only about destroyed documents on 1971 war by Indian, nothing about the looting. @Atlas just is just using the article to make a connection and the original thread credible somehow.

In his #293 thread @Atlas said, "The amount really isn't the main topic I believe. Even if it was 1 lakh , they had no right to take.". By saying that @Atlas is practically admitting that he has no document to back his claim and making us question his own article's credibility. Same thing he is doing in #375 thread.

@Bilal9's calling it "highly credible" in his #395 thread just because his family member saw it with their own eyes. For this kind of allegation posted on international forum, can we really take them into account? Is this thread really credible just because someone's family member saw it "all"? If his family members really saw it all why it is being brought up so suddenly after 50 years? Why didn't they do anything then?

Also he is saying that the link @Atlas provided in the first thread doesn't work because the DefRes group removed the original article because of DSA. But that wasn't the case at all cause that group often post anti-Indian and anti-Pakistan article based.

The admin/mods usually use credible data so if this article about the loot got removed then it must be because the admin/mod panel felt the same about this article's credibility like me. Also in #390 @Atlas said, " if India would not desytroy documents , we surely would get more numbers of concrete evidences." Aren't these lame and hilarious excuses? It's like saying Myanmar/Iraq destroyed every documents on Rohingya genocides/WMD so UN/USA can't prove now anything.

To prove the number/amount given in the article and to debate, enough credible evidence should be presented but these two couldn't provide any credible so far. Like the first article, @Bilal9 can't say anything specific about where the loot happened except Adamjee jute mill. But in my previous post i proved him wrong.

To counter @Atlas's #1 and #354 threads and prove his ridiculous allegations wrong and contradictory ; Me, @magra @Baibars_1260 , @MilSpec were trying to argue logically with facts and documents particularly in our #94, #135, #306 and #371 threads.

But instead of doing the same and bringing any credible evidence, data and document to completely prove and back the allegations, claims and theories were made; the whole thread got totally got derailed with more ridiculous allegations, off-topic and rants. Even @Shorisrip corrected one more preposterous allegation made by @Atlas in his #356,#358,#374 threads.

Unable to bring anything substantial anymore and refusing to accept any logic, facts and documents because of their stubbornness @Atlas and @Bilal9 just resorted to mudslinging and calling us false flagger, Indian and it's supporter, both explicitly and implicitly in their #138, #375 and #388 threads just because some of us didn't believe and argued about it.

Specially in #388 @Bilal9 is way outta line, implicitly and tactfully calling me Indian, false flagger, traitor, Indian lover and boot-licker. By saying "a Bangladeshi" he is referring to me as i am the only Bangladeshi kept arguing against this allegations. He already said that i am "defending Indian Govt. looting" in #311. just because i disagreed with him.

It's a common last resort attack technique among some Bangladeshis who have love/hate for Pakistan and India to label people as BAL/India and Pakistan/BNP/Jamat supporter and tell them to go and live in India/Pakistan if someone disagrees with them. Like some fanatics call people infidel and say they will burn in hell just because they believe in god or their new fatwas. And @Bilal9's even saying that in his #395 thread, "people who try to say otherwise as India-shills, will lose their credibility instantly." To prove my point further notice #42 in another thread where he directly calls me " a non-Muslim, a Hindu or a 100% AL functionary. Probably all of the above, and a diehard Hindutvabadi Hindu as well." because i mocked fanatics in BD.

Not only that in #311 and #388 he directly threatened me and dragged @waz twice already to give me warning/strike point or ban to just shut me up. This is the same guy giving DSA as a excuse to you and here he is, trying to silence me somehow. Isn't that hypocrisy? Look like these two will use dirty method to keep playing their make-believe game here somehow. I don't think we can have any sane, logical and civilized discussion anymore.

Indeed it is topic here. But you did not answer anything but singing hymns for India and defaming various freedom fighters., and keep provocation.
your Bangladeshi defender
Well we have come to a point where we now discover some of us Bangladeshi citizens posting in PDF not only possess strong opinions but strong love for Indian Govt.

We always had this. Some Bangladeshi folks just love to love India simply because they don't possess an independent mindset or backbone and love to tow someone else's culture. Or rationalize it under some strange pretext. This has always seemed to be anathema to me, this self hate among some Bangladeshi Muslims, trying to ape India's majoritarian Hindu culture.
To the "India-lovers" among us "supposed" Bangladeshis (I have no way to verify either way) I say this - the very patriotism one claims as a Bangladeshi national, becomes completely moot when one tries to support the INTERESTS of Indian govt. under the guise of "objectivity".

If a Bangladeshi tries to whitewash obvious Indian Govt. wrongs (in 1971 or after), the results for me, are the same.

In other countries (even India itself), such people are called "Deshdrohi". We in Bangladesh rationalize it instead.


Time has come to reconsider this line of thinking.
If one was born in Bangladesh, bred in Bangladesh, gained one's education and livelihood in Bangladesh, and calls oneself a "Bangladeshi", but has in one's mouth the taste of Indian boots - I do NOT consider that an honorable trait.
Lastly - do all of us have to love India?
Do all of us in Bangladesh have to become India lovers just because some are??
If one supports Indian hegemony initiatives in Bangladesh as a Bangladeshi, then one can no longer be considered Bangladeshi in my book. As simple and plain as that. One needs to look in the mirror...
For me - if someone loves India so much, they can go to India and leave us alone. Be happy and stay there.
I believe now that you are either a non-Muslim, a Hindu or a 100% AL functionary. Probably all of the above, and a diehard Hindutvabadi Hindu as well.
People have mouths and they can use them to form opinions however they like.

Doesn't make them right all the time.

And doesn't make me whatever they say either.

I decide who I am, not anyone else.

Have some himmat, some conviction and a backbone - about who you are. Don't let others dictate that.


I am surprised you are realizing this just now - being an adult? :-)
OMG!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: So now it finally came to this. The LAST RESORT!! :lol: :lol: Why don't you two just say the word "Indian Dalal" to my face? ইনিয়ে বিনিয়ে বলার দরকার কি? Why the sudden lack of guts? Looks like i may have to change my signature like @DalalErMaNodi. 😂😂 (Edit:- Looks @Bilal9 finally gathered enough courage to directly say the shit to me) 😂

@Atlas i swear, i laughed straight five minutes when you said "your Bangladeshi defender" :rofl::rofl::rofl: Ufff!! My stomach hurts!! :rofl::rofl::rofl: FYI i am actually good at goal-keeping. 😉

Keep it up, you are doing great at making yourself look like even more ridiculous and proving that this thread is nothing but a propaganda. 👏👏👏 :victory1::victory1: There's nothing to "whitewash" as i tried to answer every crap line by line. I can't agree with people who are accusing a country, driven by their blind hatred, unverified reports and agenda.

If some people decide to live in a illusion based of rumor and crappy facebook post there's nothing i can do. Thank you for proving the advice you gave me four/five years ago, finally coming outta your shell and showing your true color. All these crap i had to listen and reply to just because i didn't play your make-believe game. :lol::lol:

যেখানে দেখিবে ছাই, উড়াইয়া দেখ তাই।
পাইলেও পাইতে পার, "মিথ্যা পতাকাওয়ালা"। :rofl: :rofl:

What a shameless, pathetic hypocrite some people are. Calling someone Indian dalal here but saying the opposite to defend himself elsewhere. Well, i guess someone swallowed his own spits from the ground. I didn't need to go though all this trouble to reply.

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Indeed it is topic here. But you did not answer anything but singing hymns for India and defaming various freedom fighters., and keep provocation.
Well, the main topic here is the loot. And "why India helped us" is in the last half of the shitty article to make the acquisition valid and use peoples emotion. And i did answer your question. You can check my previous two threads, i even talked about some issues with @magra there and even here. Not my fault if you can't read and have bad eyesight. Who did i defame and provoke? :what: If i sing hymn for India then who do you sing hymn for when you blame India for killing our intellectuals? :what: Oh. wait i got my answer already. Looks like you have been awarded with Ashik-E-Pakistan title already. Congratulation. 😂

@Atlas has been more consistently pro-Pakistani than some of us. Which in my mind is pro-Bangladeshi essentially.
What a nice definition of pro-Bangladeshi. :rofl::rofl:

if India would not desytroy documents , we surely would get more numbers of concrete evidences.
But this thing is going to be satisfactory.
It was either deleted by Facebook themselves at the request of Bangladesh govt. (under Digital Security Act - which Bangladesh Govt. does frequently) or the govt. asked posters to take it down, and they complied.
But I consider it highly credible as every older male family member I have my parents' age (all of whom were trained technical professionals employed with various utility services in 1971 as young employees) saw it with their own eyes .
which is as well known and ubiquitous in Bangladesh as the air we breathe
Are you weaving stories in thin air?
Are you kidding me?! :rofl: That's how you make a thread "highly" credible?! :lol: So you mean to say that your evidence was stored in India and now because it's destroyed you can't prove about the loot? How do you even know that some of those destroyed documents were about this loot? That's not how you prove a allegation. :lol: Is that what you do when traffic police ask for your driving licence? "Oh. sorry officer i left it at my home and rat destroyed it." :lol:

Also Facebook's community standards don't work that way, those idiots don't even remove most of the post for violating community standards. More importantly DefRes is such group which often post ant-India and anti-Pakistan post and their articles are based on more credible data and research. So if your post got remove then obviously they too realized it's a propaganda.

And if DSA was a problem @Atlas would've been in trouble long ago. There are lot more people keep criticizing govt than the ones get punished by DSA. Most people criticize, abuse and troll govt in Facebook including me. How many of us got punished by DSA? And just because some of us criticize them from abroad doesn't mean we and our identities are really safe. If i am not wrong this forum is monitored by govt too.

So these two have to be the LAMEST EXCUSES ever. 😂 And then you two get pissed at me because i laugh at your ridiculous posts. Yeah, it's quite clear who weaves stories in thin air. 😂 Choose a better lie to hide behind plz. :lol:


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Since you were given the privilege (not a right) to post in PDF, I hope you will be responsible enough to use that privilege with moderation and not a disrespectful attitude, just because it does not suit your agenda. That privilege can be taken away, so use caution when you post in a disrespectful manner.
Respect begets respect.
I have always treated you with kindness and respect until this thread.
And you have treated me so far mostly with derision and disrespect.
We can all have our opinions, but be careful insulting people or their opinions.
@waz bhai what do we do about this accusation?
Insulting another member is considered cause for a ban. Please don't use Gali or call people names. @waz bhai I will leave this to your discretion.
@waz and @Slav Defence bhais please decide.
Why do you keep calling @waz as if he owes you some kinda favor and obliged to do anything you ask? 😂 Doesn't look like he actually cares about your childish tantrums. Read the thread again. I wasn't calling @Atlas names in that part, the Ram Chagol part was for the imbecile who originally wrote that in DefRes.

And Ram Chagol isn't even a slang, it's a synonym for idiot. If i really have to use slang i can use lot worse word than Ram Chagol. I believe you called them "incendiary" before which my fellow Japanese civil engineer had to listen. I am surprised that you brought this up now after all that. It's quite hypocritical like the way you are acting and using DSA as an excuse to at the same time here.

Like i said before i didn't disrespect you. If i disrespected you; you can report or show me the part where i did. I didn't need to disrespect someone who is already disgracing himself. Well, it doesn't matter now anyway. I don't need to respect you anymore after those things you just burped outta your mouth. I can now say anything i want.

I am not the one stubbornly hiding behind lies, being hypocritical, giving ridiculous excuses, saying people ape Hindu tradition and culture because of their dress-up, trying to get mods attention to give warning/strike or ban people, implicitly threatening them and calling them Indian, false flagger, traitor, Indian lover and boot-licker just to silence them. So obviously i am not the one who has agenda here and peddling lies!! You can drop the "victim" act now. :-)

You can believe what you like, I could care less.
Doesn't look like you do after those things you said. If i can believe what i like then why did such an extent to attack me that way? It won't matter if you keep your opinion to yourself but when you openly accuse someone based on your opinion, obviously there will be argument but not like the one you're doing though.

Sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and it goes to their head.
Best examples are you two here. 😏

Lastly - do all of us have to love India?
Do all of us in Bangladesh have to become India lovers just because some are??
For me - if someone loves India so much, they can go to India and leave us alone. Be happy and stay there.
Did i ask you to love India? 😂:rofl: No need to divert the topic. I know you proudly and fluently speak in Urdu and cheer for Pakistan. So i know very well know where your love lies. You have no right to tell people where they should live or not. Do i tell you to go to the country you love and stay there? It's disgusting to see that you used this cheap line to get at me.

You live in Bangladesh, you don't see how negatively Bangladeshis react to Indian involvement in ANYTHING?
If you go to a street corner in Dhaka today and ask anyone if Indian Military did any looting, they will all corroborate it, especially older generation who were alive in 1971 - and are still alive. This is well-established and people who try to say otherwise as India-shills, will lose their credibility instantly.
Strange i thought i am a Indian/false flagger. How can i be a Indian/false flagger and live in Bangladesh and Japan at the same time? 🤨 Yeah, I see how people react but not the way you're exaggerating here. Most of them are on facebook but i don't see any relevance with the main topic here.

Do you still think you have any credibility after the way you talked? :rofl: Did you do any kind of survey to say that everyone know about the looting?! :rofl: Not once in my life, not even in মাইনকার চিপা, i saw any people talk about this except my father and even he contradicts his own statement as i said in my previous thread. And people don't have leisure time or mental illness to waste their time talking about some rumored looting.

Go ahead and ask few people the loot, especially elderly ones and come back here. Ask them if they really saw anything their own eyes and what they really saw. I highly doubt their statements will be credible. Forget the looting, i even watched some clip where people can't even answer properly about who died in 21st February, why do we observe that day, which day is independence, victory or int'l mother language day.

Yeah, "people who try to say otherwise as India-shills, will lose their credibility instantly", will be marked as "Indian, false flagger, traitor, Indian lover and boot-licker" and burn in hell for eternity. :rofl:

We have known this for fifty years.
Yeah, you know everything for fifty years. :cheesy: :lol: How old are you anyway?

The very govt. in whose hands these decisions lie - is controlled by Indian whims. Enough said.

India makes sure Bangladesh govt. does not encourage local hospital or medical institutes don't get the policy support they need. We have known this for fifty years. Pakistan is not controlled by India, so they have homegrown medical care even better than ours. Plain truth everyone can see.
"Enough said" :lol: Corruption and incompetence in every Bangladeshi sectors but it's India's fault that our hospitals don't get the policy support they need for 50 years. :lol: How's India making sure of that? You can't clap with one hand. How many Bangladeshis need medical care every year? How many among them can really afford time and money to go to India? According to my cousin it takes at least 30k to visit India for medical treatment. According to the Indian Bureau of Immigration, of the 10,557,929 foreign visitors in India, 2,256,675 were Bangladeshi tourists, and 225,668 had medical visas.

Do these 225,668 Bangladeshis are all who are in need of medical care? If India makes sure Bangladesh govt. does not encourage local hospital or medical institutes don't get the policy support they need, does that benefit India when the rest of the Bangladeshis in need of medical treatment?

India's spending $30 billion when Bangladesh is spending only $3.4 billion, less than 1% of GDP in this FY. Difference between Pakistan and Bangladesh's health sector isn't much big, even in some sector we are ahead of them. One country has 216.6 million and other has 163 million people.

If Indian influence is the problem why there's such little difference between Pak-BD health sector? Why's is our allocation for health sector is slowly rising and why Bangladesh is ahead of India, Pakistan, Nepal and Afghanistan in providing access to quality healthcare to citizens then?

There are 3 hospital beds per 10,000 people and 5.5 doctors and 2.1 nurses for every 10,000 people whereas it's recommended by WHO, the figures to be 10 and 30 respectively which was 3.05 doctors and 1.07 nurses for every 10,000 people in the past. There were 0.26 physicians per 1,000 people which rose to 0.47 in 2015.

Over 60 per cent of the country’s population in rural communities don't have easy access to specialist treatment. 80% of the population seeking medical care through the informal sector as comprising pharmacies, retail medicine (drug) shops and traditional healers. Does India benefit from these people by influencing our govt?

Does not having policy support stop us getting more than one nebulizer for more than 60 people in one ward or clean hospital environment specially in loo of public hospitals? Why our doctors don't go to their posts in village/remotes areas?

Why a ward boy has to treat/operate/deliver on patient? Why our ambulance service is controlled by syndicate? Why hospitals steal money during equipment procurement? Why do they buy these when they don't have the manpower and leave them unused? Why do they even buy them when they already have the machines they need? Why hospital insist on unnecessary C-section?

Why there are syndicates controlling public hospital seats? Why do we have to bribe them for a seat or even for carrying the patient in stretcher/wheel chair every time? Why do we have to pay even a janitor cleaner before being discharged?

According to the 2017 National Household Survey conducted by Transparency International Bangladesh, 42.5 per cent of the recipients of health services from public institutions said they had been victims of irregularities and corruption while receiving those services. 19.8 per cent of respondents had paid bribes; the average amount paid was BDT 498 (about £4.45).

Numerous real/fake private hospitals, medical and diagnostics centers ran by real/fake doctors and ripping off people without proper supervision from govt. During Covid-19 there were shortage of ICU and still is. In 2020, some people had to run from one hospital to another and die in ambulance cause they failed get admitted or treated by doctor. The hospitals didn't check them because they didn't have corona certificate even though they had different problems. During that time people couldn't travel outside BD.

Are all of these India's fault? Even the improvements? Do any of these problems help India to get one more Bangladeshi patient? Our shortage of budget, manpower, lack of supervision, lack of guts and vision of our corrupted and incompetent officials in health ministry have nothing to do with these problems?

Everything has India's influence? Is a policy stopping us to solve some of these problems? Even if we form a policy, can we really implement it properly? Do we really implement other existing policies properly? If it's India's fault to get 225,668 Bangladeshi patients then whose fault is it when people go to Malaysia, Singapore, UK, Thailand etc?

Feels like this is just another overly exaggerated chest-thumping about India's influence like the imaginary loot. @Destranator @Homo Sapiens i may need corrections. Some of these data are quite old.

https://businessperspectives.org/im.../article/assets/7208/PPM_2016_02cont2_Ali.pdf (this one is actually a good read)
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Everything Indian Govt. ever does or ever did (overtly and covertly controlling Bangladesh policy to de-fund independent Bangladeshi cultural movies, drama and bringing in Indian actors, cultural influencers using their local proxies, e,g,, popularize Hindi language, dialog, movies, songs, clothes among women and children) is geared toward keeping Bangladesh completely dependent on Indian culture, thoughts and products.
Even South Indians have better self respect for themselves and their own culture (opposed to Hindi culture invasion) than we Bangladeshis do, and they are Indian citizens, not citizens of a separate country like us.
Similar problem here. And this one is even worse. Don't blame the govt like you did previously cause it's not govt's responsibility to spoon fed us in every problem when we are the one don't do anything to compete. Did you read the article you provided properly? LOL, the writer seems crying just like you. He admitted two times why this is happening.

  • Globalization has opened many ways to explore extraneous cultures, and gives Bangladesh an amazing opportunity to know about foreign cultures. Bangladeshi people used to follow Western culture, but as of now they are very keen on learning and practising Indian culture.
  • Bangladeshi people have their own culture and customs, but their TV channels are not making or trying to make quality programs. As a result they are becoming very fond of Indian programs.
Then he decides to blame Bangladeshis at the end. 😂 I guess these statements contradicts your's. Shall i consider your statement null and void? 🤨

Will you blame India for this? India is just selling its products. It is you; the Bangladeshi people who will decide whether you will adopt this foreign custom, forgetting your own culture, or not.
I could say he ended the discussion by telling all the reasons in that two points above. But few things i would like to add and elaborate.
  • First of all, yes our gutless incompetent guys in the ministry won't ban these channels; political reason or not. People tried to keep them banned multiple times. Even if these channels get banned, people can still watch them on internet. If BTRC bans them too, people can watch them with VPN like they do for Al Jazeera, PDF and other banned websites.
So like the article you provided says, in this era of globalization when everyone have smartphones in their hands, your crying, whinning can't stop people from doing what they want. There's no need to for India to use any local proxies if their contents are easily accessible like this.
  • Like the article says our "TV channels are not making or trying to make quality programs". Our TV channels mainly focused on news and talk shows. Their programs are not viewer friendly. The Bangladeshi viewers are mostly women and children who stays at home most of the time. But there are very few programs for them and TV-channels makes mix of programs (পাচমিশালি-জগাখিচুড়ি).
The time for programs are not properly scheduled. People don't want to see news, talks shows, crime patrol/watch type programs at 9am with family. Also TV-channels show more advertisement than actual programs. There was a time when people could at least watch some good quality program on Eid but now TV-channels can't even even telecast a good short-film/drama for on hour in valentine's day.

On the contrary, Indian TV-channels are making only one type of programs including shitty drama-serials for target viewer. Instead of watching Bangladeshi Tv-channels, people now prefer to watch local and foreign online streaming services like Youtube, Iflix, Bioscope, Hoichoi, Netflix etc and download contents from FTP, torrent servers.
  • Our film industry suck!! How many good movies we make every year? If i remember correctly only "No Dorai". Check every tv-channels on holiday. All movies they telecast are old. If shitty actors like Shakib, Ananta Jalil, Opu, Pori Moni, Misha, Bubli, Her Alam, Kazi Maruf exists then we don't need India to destroy our film industry. Our own actors can do that.
99.9% Bangla movies are so crappy that we don't need separate comedy movie anymore. The writer in your article talks about films like Jibon Theke Neya, Abar Tora Manush Ho, Aguner Poroshmoni, Hangor Nodi Grenade, and Stop Genocide and says these were way ahead of Indian Bangla movies. The audacity to say such thing with few good Bangla movies based on war and language movement is shocking!! 😂

Did this guy see any Indian-Bangla movies of that time before saying that? 😂 Maybe we don't make good movies always but there are movies like "Chitra Nodir Par", "Joyjatra", "Matri Moyna", "Amar Bndhu Rashed", "Ghetu Putro Komola", "Television", "Monpura", "Aynabaji" etc. Another problem is the environment of our cinema halls. All the cinema halls are in poor state except Star Cineplex, Blockbuster and probably Shaymoli cinema hall.

They are dirty, their seats are broken and old, they have old and poor air
conditioning, sound and projectors, all of their audiences are third class rickshawalas, they sell tickets in black, electricity gets cutt off during show and the cinemas they show are MASHALLAH!! I will leave few more details untold. Similar situation with local drama/serials. Last good drama (i don't know if it falls into this category or not) i watched was a web series name "Taqdeer".

The stories, scripts, SFX and dialogues are utter crap. They mainly make cinemas and dramas on three themes; love, language-liberation-victory day, feminism and secularism. Same old concepts used as new in commercial films. ( I don't know what cultural movies are you talking about). If they get success on one new concept, they starts to use it over and over again until people get bored. There are very few good directors like Amitav, Faruqi, Rahat, Adnan, Gazi etc exist now but they are too focused on making ad for corporate clients. Only three good actors are Chanchal, Joya and Mosharraf. I barely see the old ones in any programs.

Unlike Indian movies we have almost non-existent sponsors line, it takes more budget to make a good movie but our sponsors don't have enough good will to spend and/or deep pocket. There are lots of good novel, story books written by old and new writers, even new young people are making their own comics similar to American and Japanese.

But our producers and directors can't and don't think about them or new genre. There are lot's of good skilled people in SFX but they are not being utilized properly at all. You blame India for ruining our industry but they are the ones sometimes casting our actors in their movie/drama and showing our shows/sponsoring on their streaming service like "Taqdeer". Can't say the same about our local streaming services. Even Pakistani people work at Bollywood.
  • Our music industries is in worst situation among all of them. How many good songs our artist make every year? This year Shunno's two tracks are gaining popularity. Our music industry died in 2012 IMO. Thanks to youtube, i-tunes, amazon, spotify and MP3 converter people can easily listen any music they want.
But there was a time when people would buy CD and artist like Habib, Balam, Arnob, Artcell, Black, Warfaze, Hridoy, Aurthohin rocked people for few years, at least a decade. We have some world-class/good musicians, sound engineer but they don't continue to make good songs/music after few album. Pritom, Backstage club, Popeye Bangladesh and few new guys make few good songs sometimes but not like before.

And people play Indian songs in haldi night/marriage cause there isn't any Bangladeshi songs like them. Pritom made one song but didn't gain much popularity. Doesn't mean people don't play Bangladeshi songs in their wedding. So what they listen now?

"O Murshid" By Taheri , "Buk Chin Chin Korche" type cringey songs, even writing these names gives me cringe. Sometime our song and signers become meme content. Singers become actors instead of focusing their career in music. That's the situation in BD. So you can't do anything about what listen. Just because they once sang "Alta Banur Biye" in weeding doesn't mean they will keep doing it. People didn't like when first Rock/Metal song came out but now look how big their fan base is.
  • Our good contents don't get much promotion. Sometimes we don't hear about good contents because there's not trailer/ad/news coverage like Hollywood/Bollywood does. Many of us have to rely on people to listen about a good content. When "Aynabazi" was released, there was long line for ticket in front of cinema hall. I even failed to find a ticket in Star and Shaymoli. I had watch the movie in Balaka and the experience was horrible. I think i talked about it above.
  • Last thing is the language. Most of the Bangladeshis are not good at English. Specially the one who listen/watch these Indian contents. Unlike English and other languages, they don't need to learn or use subtitle for Hindi as both Bengali and Hindi sounds similar sometimes and has same origin. And most Bangladeshi women watch Indian-Bangla serials now.
So in this era of competition, if you fail to compete people will move/shift to anything good enough to find. Like the writer said, it up to us. If people think our hospitals, TV programs, cinemas, songs are not good, they can watch/visit, systems/contents from other countries. Crying not gonna stop that.

People watched and cheered in Ind-Pak cricket match in the past and now they care about only our national cricket team. Similarly people only care about EU club football leagues and Brazil-Argentina-Germany in WC instead of caring about our national team and local leagues. Do you mind then?

It seems the writer and you agree about globalization but only have infinite "CHULKANI" about Indian cultural aggression. If you cry this much about Indian culture then i bet you must be banging your head against wall when you see Western culture has changed and still changing our way of life since the British era. You must be worried about Japanese, Korean and other culture too. :rolleyes:

Tell me Billy boy do you only cry about these cultures too? 😏 Do you cry when our girls wear Pakistani/Kashmiri shawl and people listen Pakistani songs, buy Pakistani chicken and Basmati rice? No, you only cry when people buy "Pakhi", "Karina" dress which can easily manufactured locally with "Indian" tag. I see you talked about "Saas-Bahu" sometimes. :cheesy: Isn't that a Hindi serial? :cheesy: If you hate Indian content that much how do you know that name? :cheesy:

If Bollywood makes good movies like "Padmaavat", "Piku", "Pa", "Delhi-6" etc, anybody will watch. Not only Bangladeshi. Our are not even close to Korean movies let alone Bollywood. Crying doesn't helps you achieve recognition. Regarding "India Govt overtly and covertly controlling Bangladesh policy to de-fund independent Bangladeshi cultural movies, drama", except few times Bangladesh govt always funded local movies and dramas and the number of movies, dramas funded by govt has increased including the budget.

সরকারি অনুদানের সিনেমা তৈরির বাজেট এখন এক কোটি।
২০২০-২১ অর্থবছরে ২০টি চলচ্চিত্রকে অনুদান দেওয়া হবে।
প্রতিটি পূর্ণদৈর্ঘ্য ছবি সর্বোচ্চ ৭৫ লাখ এবং স্বল্পদৈর্ঘ্য ছবি পাবে ২০ লাখ টাকা।

We always had this. Some Bangladeshi folks just love to love India simply because they don't possess an independent mindset or backbone and love to tow someone else's culture.
Obviously you are dancing around the issue because you don't have an answer.
Says the guy who is doing exactly the same thing!! :rofl::rofl: Talking about about independent mindset when he, himself doesn't like when people follow Indian culture and bash others just because they don't give damn about his crying. :rofl: :rofl:

Having Bangladesh' foreign, trade and military policies being decided by India is not a matter of honor for me personally. I will always have an opinion for that topic.
" Bangladesh’s foreign and domestic policies are heavily influenced by the region’s major powers, particularly India."
Military cooperation with India is a non-starter, especially when Bangladesh is firmly in the China camp. Everyone knows this.
You went through all that to show me this "one line" from an article on counter terrorism in 2013, just to prove your point? 🤨 Read the line and your previous thread again. If our foreign and domestic policies are heavily influenced/decided by India, then why this line says "power" in plural form? The reason is obvious.

The American who wrote the report deliberately refrained from acknowledging the huge Chinese influence. Even if this guy and you try to portray BD subservient to India like some other guys in PDF do sometimes, the ground reality doesn't change at all. China is Bangladesh's major development partner in various sectors besides Japan. And military policies being decided by India?! Don't make me laugh!!

What military policies was ever decided by India? They still cry about $500 million loan and offer their military platforms. Have we take them? Have we forgotten how they cried about two old Chinese subs and submarine base? Again you contradict your own statement. Too hard to remember what you burped earlier?

"Military cooperation with India is a non-starter, especially when Bangladesh is firmly in the China camp. Everyone knows this."

I can show you multiple articles including new ones against your article, even from the Indian and it's ally sources which contradict your claim and say China has more influence than India and cry about it. Even you were cheering in those articles.


The video is only one of many, many corroborated accounts from many, many sources in Bangladesh.
Still trying to label it as loot by Indian military even though i debunked your propaganda? 😂 Who has agenda here you said? 🤣

First study what racism is and how you judge racist actions. I never judged Indians (other than a few jokes), my beef was always with Indian Govt.
I believe now that you are either a non-Muslim, a Hindu or a 100% AL functionary. Probably all of the above, and a diehard Hindutvabadi Hindu as well.
Go study yourself what racial profiling is.


There has to be some other reason.
No other reason. Your BSF is either poorly trained or can't follow int'l law properly and can't keep promise just like Indian govt. One of our DG once said that the BSF jawans get deployed in Indo-BD border come from Kashmir where tension is always high. That's they act so aggressive. So he proposed to BSF to keep those jawans in HQ for sometimes before shifting them to Indo-BD where situation is moderate.

River water dispute - something like Indus Water Treaty signed between Indo-Pak needs to be done here. I am not sure where the diplomats are on that.
India-BD signed Farakka treaty in 1996. The treaty wasn't followed by India. India also open all sluice gates when the dam reaches full capacity during Monsoon season, causing flash flood on this side.

NRC/CAA - This is just for internal vote bank politics. It wont affect BD as no way we can push people into BD who dont have BD citizenship docs.
It's already affected. It doesn't remain as internal vote bank politics if your politicians constantly attack Bangladeshis and insult them. It affects people of both countries and bilateral relation. BSF once tried to push in a mental patient in BD including Rohingyas.


We have no skin in the game as refugees are not entering India. Also, we have limited leverage with Myanmar. China can do a lot more to convince Myanmar.
India call BD it's closest friend and yet it stays neutral on UN resolution against Myanmar. The least India could do is at least vote in favor of those resolution.

US and Canada are not adversaries despite US being much stronger military power. We should aim for such a relationship.
US-Canada doesn't have issues like India-BD has. Two parties are different.

I remember the pic posted from back then but it was used to argue how it’s practically impossible to operate tanks in bd to which I whole heartedly disagree. Shiromoni is no tank friendly town
No, we were arguing about operating heavy tank with more than 50 tons weight.
 

Atlas

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@The Ronin , post #354 supported my evidence. The writings of Barrister Moinul Hussein.

Post #375 is just a relation , since India destroyed all documents , so probably they also hide their looting documents too.

I see you become too much desperate ( also defensive).

That's why you awarded me! :omghaha: (okay calm down :lol: )
Looks like you have been awarded with Ashik-E-Pakistan title already. Congratulation. 😂
Ps : However, no more argument with you, as I already provided evidence from Barrister Moinul Hussein! Now you can deal with him if you want. :lol:
 
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magra

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No other reason. Your BSF is either poorly trained or can't follow int'l law properly and can't keep promise just like Indian govt. One of our DG once said that the BSF jawans get deployed in Indo-BD border come from Kashmir where tension is always high. That's they act so aggressive. So he proposed to BSF to keep those jawans in HQ for sometimes before shifting them to Indo-BD where situation is moderate.
Situation on Indo-Pak border is much more tense compared to Indo-BD border. Yet we dont hear of border killing of civilians (due to them attempting to cross) on Indo-Pak border. The logic that the same BSF jawans dont do such thing at Indo-Pak border but then do it on Indo-BD border does not sound consistent.

India-BD signed Farakka treaty in 1996. The treaty wasn't followed by India. India also open all sluice gates when the dam reaches full capacity during Monsoon season, causing flash flood on this side.
If you are claiming that India is violating a signed treaty, then why is BD not approaching international body? We constantly hear Pak approaching such bodies to complain about India.

It's already affected. It doesn't remain as internal vote bank politics if your politicians constantly attack Bangladeshis and insult them. It affects people of both countries and bilateral relation. BSF once tried to push in a mental patient in BD including Rohingyas.

Any Rohingyas which entered India came via BD. Even BD does not dispute this fact. Hence India feels that these should be sent back to BD. Aside from Rohingyas though, my statement holds true that we cannot push people into BD unless we can prove that they are BD citizens.

India call BD it's closest friend and yet it stays neutral on UN resolution against Myanmar. The least India could do is at least vote in favor of those resolution.
Any such resolution is vetoed by China. Hence, India's vote in favor would have no effect. It would only lead to lesser influence over Myanmar.

US-Canada doesn't have issues like India-BD has. Two parties are different.
There are no major issues between India and BD. We can slowly resolve all issues to have a US-Canada type relationship.
 

fallstuff

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Indians looted all Pakistani Military equipment along with everything else they could fit in those trucks as war booty.
 

Destranator

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Sorry for the typos.

@LeGenD the three threads @Atlas is showing to you, have no connection with each other at all. Especially the last one #375 with BBC link is only about destroyed documents on 1971 war by Indian, nothing about the looting. @Atlas just is just using the article to make a connection and the original thread credible somehow.

In his #293 thread @Atlas said, "The amount really isn't the main topic I believe. Even if it was 1 lakh , they had no right to take.". By saying that @Atlas is practically admitting that he has no document to back his claim and making us question his own article's credibility. Same thing he is doing in #375 thread.

@Bilal9's calling it "highly credible" in his #395 thread just because his family member saw it with their own eyes. For this kind of allegation posted on international forum, can we really take them into account? Is this thread really credible just because someone's family member saw it "all"? If his family members really saw it all why it is being brought up so suddenly after 50 years? Why didn't they do anything then?

Also he is saying that the link @Atlas provided in the first thread doesn't work because the DefRes group removed the original article because of DSA. But that wasn't the case at all cause that group often post anti-Indian and anti-Pakistan article based.

The admin/mods usually use credible data so if this article about the loot got removed then it must be because the admin/mod panel felt the same about this article's credibility like me. Also in #390 @Atlas said, " if India would not desytroy documents , we surely would get more numbers of concrete evidences." Aren't these lame and hilarious excuses? It's like saying Myanmar/Iraq destroyed every documents on Rohingya genocides/WMD so UN/USA can't prove now anything.

To prove the number/amount given in the article and to debate, enough credible evidence should be presented but these two couldn't provide any credible so far. Like the first article, @Bilal9 can't say anything specific about where the loot happened except Adamjee jute mill. But in my previous post i proved him wrong.

To counter @Atlas's #1 and #354 threads and prove his ridiculous allegations wrong and contradictory ; Me, @magra @Baibars_1260 , @MilSpec were trying to argue logically with facts and documents particularly in our #94, #135, #306 and #371 threads.

But instead of doing the same and bringing any credible evidence, data and document to completely prove and back the allegations, claims and theories were made; the whole thread got totally got derailed with more ridiculous allegations, off-topic and rants. Even @Shorisrip corrected one more preposterous allegation made by @Atlas in his #356,#358,#374 threads.

Unable to bring anything substantial anymore and refusing to accept any logic, facts and documents because of their stubbornness @Atlas and @Bilal9 just resorted to mudslinging and calling us false flagger, Indian and it's supporter, both explicitly and implicitly in their #138, #375 and #388 threads just because some of us didn't believe and argued about it.

Specially in #388 @Bilal9 is way outta line, implicitly and tactfully calling me Indian, false flagger, traitor, Indian lover and boot-licker. By saying "a Bangladeshi" he is referring to me as i am the only Bangladeshi kept arguing against this allegations. He already said that i am "defending Indian Govt. looting" in #311. just because i disagreed with him.

It's a common last resort attack technique among some Bangladeshis who have love/hate for Pakistan and India to label people as BAL/India and Pakistan/BNP/Jamat supporter and tell them to go and live in India/Pakistan if someone disagrees with them. Like some fanatics call people infidel and say they will burn in hell just because they believe in god or their new fatwas. And @Bilal9's even saying that in his #395 thread, "people who try to say otherwise as India-shills, will lose their credibility instantly." To prove my point further notice #42 in another thread where he directly calls me " a non-Muslim, a Hindu or a 100% AL functionary. Probably all of the above, and a diehard Hindutvabadi Hindu as well." because i mocked fanatics in BD.

Not only that in #311 and #388 he directly threatened me and dragged @waz twice already to give me warning/strike point or ban to just shut me up. This is the same guy giving DSA as a excuse to you and here he is, trying to silence me somehow. Isn't that hypocrisy? Look like these two will use dirty method to keep playing their make-believe game here somehow. I don't think we can have any sane, logical and civilized discussion anymore.













OMG!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: So now it finally came to this. The LAST RESORT!! :lol: :lol: Why don't you two just say the word "Indian Dalal" to my face? ইনিয়ে বিনিয়ে বলার দরকার কি? Why the sudden lack of guts? Looks like i may have to change my signature like @DalalErMaNodi. 😂😂 (Edit:- Looks @Bilal9 finally gathered enough courage to directly say the shit to me) 😂

@Atlas i swear, i laughed straight five minutes when you said "your Bangladeshi defender" :rofl::rofl::rofl: Ufff!! My stomach hurts!! :rofl::rofl::rofl: FYI i am actually good at goal-keeping. 😉

Keep it up, you are doing great at making yourself look like even more ridiculous and proving that this thread is nothing but a propaganda. 👏👏👏 :victory1::victory1: There's nothing to "whitewash" as i tried to answer every crap line by line. I can't agree with people who are accusing a country, driven by their blind hatred, unverified reports and agenda.

If some people decide to live in a illusion based of rumor and crappy facebook post there's nothing i can do. Thank you for proving the advice you gave me four/five years ago, finally coming outta your shell and showing your true color. All these crap i had to listen and reply to just because i didn't play your make-believe game. :lol::lol:

যেখানে দেখিবে ছাই, উড়াইয়া দেখ তাই।
পাইলেও পাইতে পার, "মিথ্যা পতাকাওয়ালা"। :rofl: :rofl:

What a shameless, pathetic hypocrite some people are. Calling someone Indian dalal here but saying the opposite to defend himself elsewhere. Well, i guess someone swallowed his own spits from the ground. I didn't need to go though all this trouble to reply.

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Well, the main topic here is the loot. And "why India helped us" is in the last half of the shitty article to make the acquisition valid and use peoples emotion. And i did answer your question. You can check my previous two threads, i even talked about some issues with @magra there and even here. Not my fault if you can't read and have bad eyesight. Who did i defame and provoke? :what: If i sing hymn for India then who do you sing hymn for when you blame India for killing our intellectuals? :what: Oh. wait i got my answer already. Looks like you have been awarded with Ashik-E-Pakistan title already. Congratulation. 😂



What a nice definition of pro-Bangladeshi. :rofl::rofl:








Are you kidding me?! :rofl: That's how you make a thread "highly" credible?! :lol: So you mean to say that your evidence was stored in India and now because it's destroyed you can't prove about the loot? How do you even know that some of those destroyed documents were about this loot? That's not how you prove a allegation. :lol: Is that what you do when traffic police ask for your driving licence? "Oh. sorry officer i left it at my home and rat destroyed it." :lol:

Also Facebook's community standards don't work that way, those idiots don't even remove most of the post for violating community standards. More importantly DefRes is such group which often post ant-India and anti-Pakistan post and their articles are based on more credible data and research. So if your post got remove then obviously they too realized it's a propaganda.

And if DSA was a problem @Atlas would've been in trouble long ago. There are lot more people keep criticizing govt than the ones get punished by DSA. Most people criticize, abuse and troll govt in Facebook including me. How many of us got punished by DSA? And just because some of us criticize them from abroad doesn't mean we and our identities are really safe. If i am not wrong this forum is monitored by govt too.

So these two have to be the LAMEST EXCUSES ever. 😂 And then you two get pissed at me because i laugh at your ridiculous posts. Yeah, it's quite clear who weaves stories in thin air. 😂 Choose a better lie to hide behind plz. :lol:


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Why do you keep calling @waz as if he owes you some kinda favor and obliged to do anything you ask? 😂 Doesn't look like he actually cares about your childish tantrums. Read the thread again. I wasn't calling @Atlas names in that part, the Ram Chagol part was for the imbecile who originally wrote that in DefRes.

And Ram Chagol isn't even a slang, it's a synonym for idiot. If i really have to use slang i can use lot worse word than Ram Chagol. I believe you called them "incendiary" before which my fellow Japanese civil engineer had to listen. I am surprised that you brought this up now after all that. It's quite hypocritical like the way you are acting and using DSA as an excuse to at the same time here.

Like i said before i didn't disrespect you. If i disrespected you; you can report or show me the part where i did. I didn't need to disrespect someone who is already disgracing himself. Well, it doesn't matter now anyway. I don't need to respect you anymore after those things you just burped outta your mouth. I can now say anything i want.

I am not the one stubbornly hiding behind lies, being hypocritical, giving ridiculous excuses, saying people ape Hindu tradition and culture because of their dress-up, trying to get mods attention to give warning/strike or ban people, implicitly threatening them and calling them Indian, false flagger, traitor, Indian lover and boot-licker just to silence them. So obviously i am not the one who has agenda here and peddling lies!! You can drop the "victim" act now. :-)



Doesn't look like you do after those things you said. If i can believe what i like then why did such an extent to attack me that way? It won't matter if you keep your opinion to yourself but when you openly accuse someone based on your opinion, obviously there will be argument but not like the one you're doing though.



Best examples are you two here. 😏





Did i ask you to love India? 😂:rofl: No need to divert the topic. I know you proudly and fluently speak in Urdu and cheer for Pakistan. So i know very well know where your love lies. You have no right to tell people where they should live or not. Do i tell you to go to the country you love and stay there? It's disgusting to see that you used this cheap line to get at me.




Strange i thought i am a Indian/false flagger. How can i be a Indian/false flagger and live in Bangladesh and Japan at the same time? 🤨 Yeah, I see how people react but not the way you're exaggerating here. Most of them are on facebook but i don't see any relevance with the main topic here.

Do you still think you have any credibility after the way you talked? :rofl: Did you do any kind of survey to say that everyone know about the looting?! :rofl: Not once in my life, not even in মাইনকার চিপা, i saw any people talk about this except my father and even he contradicts his own statement as i said in my previous thread. And people don't have leisure time or mental illness to waste their time talking about some rumored looting.

Go ahead and ask few people the loot, especially elderly ones and come back here. Ask them if they really saw anything their own eyes and what they really saw. I highly doubt their statements will be credible. Forget the looting, i even watched some clip where people can't even answer properly about who died in 21st February, why do we observe that day, which day is independence, victory or int'l mother language day.

Yeah, "people who try to say otherwise as India-shills, will lose their credibility instantly", will be marked as "Indian, false flagger, traitor, Indian lover and boot-licker" and burn in hell for eternity. :rofl:



Yeah, you know everything for fifty years. :cheesy: :lol: How old are you anyway?



"Enough said" :lol: Corruption and incompetence in every Bangladeshi sectors but it's India's fault that our hospitals don't get the policy support they need for 50 years. :lol: How's India making sure of that? You can't clap with one hand. How many Bangladeshis need medical care every year? How many among them can really afford time and money to go to India? According to my cousin it takes at least 30k to visit India for medical treatment. According to the Indian Bureau of Immigration, of the 10,557,929 foreign visitors in India, 2,256,675 were Bangladeshi tourists, and 225,668 had medical visas.

Do these 225,668 Bangladeshis are all who are in need of medical care? If India makes sure Bangladesh govt. does not encourage local hospital or medical institutes don't get the policy support they need, does that benefit India when the rest of the Bangladeshis in need of medical treatment?

India's spending $30 billion when Bangladesh is spending only $3.4 billion, less than 1% of GDP in this FY. Difference between Pakistan and Bangladesh's health sector isn't much big, even in some sector we are ahead of them. One country has 216.6 million and other has 163 million people.

If Indian influence is the problem why there's such little difference between Pak-BD health sector? Why's is our allocation for health sector is slowly rising and why Bangladesh is ahead of India, Pakistan, Nepal and Afghanistan in providing access to quality healthcare to citizens then?

There are 3 hospital beds per 10,000 people and 5.5 doctors and 2.1 nurses for every 10,000 people whereas it's recommended by WHO, the figures to be 10 and 30 respectively which was 3.05 doctors and 1.07 nurses for every 10,000 people in the past. There were 0.26 physicians per 1,000 people which rose to 0.47 in 2015.

Over 60 per cent of the country’s population in rural communities don't have easy access to specialist treatment. 80% of the population seeking medical care through the informal sector as comprising pharmacies, retail medicine (drug) shops and traditional healers. Does India benefit from these people by influencing our govt?

Does not having policy support stop us getting more than one nebulizer for more than 60 people in one ward or clean hospital environment specially in loo of public hospitals? Why our doctors don't go to their posts in village/remotes areas?

Why a ward boy has to treat/operate/deliver on patient? Why our ambulance service is controlled by syndicate? Why hospitals steal money during equipment procurement? Why do they buy these when they don't have the manpower and leave them unused? Why do they even buy them when they already have the machines they need? Why hospital insist on unnecessary C-section?

Why there are syndicates controlling public hospital seats? Why do we have to bribe them for a seat or even for carrying the patient in stretcher/wheel chair every time? Why do we have to pay even a janitor cleaner before being discharged?

According to the 2017 National Household Survey conducted by Transparency International Bangladesh, 42.5 per cent of the recipients of health services from public institutions said they had been victims of irregularities and corruption while receiving those services. 19.8 per cent of respondents had paid bribes; the average amount paid was BDT 498 (about £4.45).

Numerous real/fake private hospitals, medical and diagnostics centers ran by real/fake doctors and ripping off people without proper supervision from govt. During Covid-19 there were shortage of ICU and still is. In 2020, some people had to run from one hospital to another and die in ambulance cause they failed get admitted or treated by doctor. The hospitals didn't check them because they didn't have corona certificate even though they had different problems. During that time people couldn't travel outside BD.

Are all of these India's fault? Even the improvements? Do any of these problems help India to get one more Bangladeshi patient? Our shortage of budget, manpower, lack of supervision, lack of guts and vision of our corrupted and incompetent officials in health ministry have nothing to do with these problems?

Everything has India's influence? Is a policy stopping us to solve some of these problems? Even if we form a policy, can we really implement it properly? Do we really implement other existing policies properly? If it's India's fault to get 225,668 Bangladeshi patients then whose fault is it when people go to Malaysia, Singapore, UK, Thailand etc?

Feels like this is just another overly exaggerated chest-thumping about India's influence like the imaginary loot. @Destranator @Homo Sapiens i may need corrections. Some of these data are quite old.

https://businessperspectives.org/im.../article/assets/7208/PPM_2016_02cont2_Ali.pdf (this one is actually a good read)
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Similar problem here. And this one is even worse. Don't blame the govt like you did previously cause it's not govt's responsibility to spoon fed us in every problem when we are the one don't do anything to compete. Did you read the article you provided properly? LOL, the writer seems crying just like you. He admitted two times why this is happening.

  • Globalization has opened many ways to explore extraneous cultures, and gives Bangladesh an amazing opportunity to know about foreign cultures. Bangladeshi people used to follow Western culture, but as of now they are very keen on learning and practising Indian culture.
  • Bangladeshi people have their own culture and customs, but their TV channels are not making or trying to make quality programs. As a result they are becoming very fond of Indian programs.
Then he decides to blame Bangladeshis at the end. 😂 I guess these statements contradicts your's. Shall i consider your statement null and void? 🤨



I could say he ended the discussion by telling all the reasons in that two points above. But few things i would like to add and elaborate.
  • First of all, yes our gutless incompetent guys in the ministry won't ban these channels; political reason or not. People tried to keep them banned multiple times. Even if these channels get banned, people can still watch them on internet. If BTRC bans them too, people can watch them with VPN like they do for Al Jazeera, PDF and other banned websites.
So like the article you provided says, in this era of globalization when everyone have smartphones in their hands, your crying, whinning can't stop people from doing what they want. There's no need to for India to use any local proxies if their contents are easily accessible like this.
  • Like the article says our "TV channels are not making or trying to make quality programs". Our TV channels mainly focused on news and talk shows. Their programs are not viewer friendly. The Bangladeshi viewers are mostly women and children who stays at home most of the time. But there are very few programs for them and TV-channels makes mix of programs (পাচমিশালি-জগাখিচুড়ি).
The time for programs are not properly scheduled. People don't want to see news, talks shows, crime patrol/watch type programs at 9am with family. Also TV-channels show more advertisement than actual programs. There was a time when people could at least watch some good quality program on Eid but now TV-channels can't even even telecast a good short-film/drama for on hour in valentine's day.

On the contrary, Indian TV-channels are making only one type of programs including shitty drama-serials for target viewer. Instead of watching Bangladeshi Tv-channels, people now prefer to watch local and foreign online streaming services like Youtube, Iflix, Bioscope, Hoichoi, Netflix etc and download contents from FTP, torrent servers.
  • Our film industry suck!! How many good movies we make every year? If i remember correctly only "No Dorai". Check every tv-channels on holiday. All movies they telecast are old. If shitty actors like Shakib, Ananta Jalil, Opu, Pori Moni, Misha, Bubli, Her Alam, Kazi Maruf exists then we don't need India to destroy our film industry. Our own actors can do that.
99.9% Bangla movies are so crappy that we don't need separate comedy movie anymore. The writer in your article talks about films like Jibon Theke Neya, Abar Tora Manush Ho, Aguner Poroshmoni, Hangor Nodi Grenade, and Stop Genocide and says these were way ahead of Indian Bangla movies. The audacity to say such thing with few good Bangla movies based on war and language movement is shocking!! 😂

Did this guy see any Indian-Bangla movies of that time before saying that? 😂 Maybe we don't make good movies always but there are movies like "Chitra Nodir Par", "Joyjatra", "Matri Moyna", "Amar Bndhu Rashed", "Ghetu Putro Komola", "Television", "Monpura", "Aynabaji" etc. Another problem is the environment of our cinema halls. All the cinema halls are in poor state except Star Cineplex, Blockbuster and probably Shaymoli cinema hall.

They are dirty, their seats are broken and old, they have old and poor air
conditioning, sound and projectors, all of their audiences are third class rickshawalas, they sell tickets in black, electricity gets cutt off during show and the cinemas they show are MASHALLAH!! I will leave few more details untold. Similar situation with local drama/serials. Last good drama (i don't know if it falls into this category or not) i watched was a web series name "Taqdeer".

The stories, scripts, SFX and dialogues are utter crap. They mainly make cinemas and dramas on three themes; love, language-liberation-victory day, feminism and secularism. Same old concepts used as new in commercial films. ( I don't know what cultural movies are you talking about). If they get success on one new concept, they starts to use it over and over again until people get bored. There are very few good directors like Amitav, Faruqi, Rahat, Adnan, Gazi etc exist now but they are too focused on making ad for corporate clients. Only three good actors are Chanchal, Joya and Mosharraf. I barely see the old ones in any programs.

Unlike Indian movies we have almost non-existent sponsors line, it takes more budget to make a good movie but our sponsors don't have enough good will to spend and/or deep pocket. There are lots of good novel, story books written by old and new writers, even new young people are making their own comics similar to American and Japanese.

But our producers and directors can't and don't think about them or new genre. There are lot's of good skilled people in SFX but they are not being utilized properly at all. You blame India for ruining our industry but they are the ones sometimes casting our actors in their movie/drama and showing our shows/sponsoring on their streaming service like "Taqdeer". Can't say the same about our local streaming services. Even Pakistani people work at Bollywood.
  • Our music industries is in worst situation among all of them. How many good songs our artist make every year? This year Shunno's two tracks are gaining popularity. Our music industry died in 2012 IMO. Thanks to youtube, i-tunes, amazon, spotify and MP3 converter people can easily listen any music they want.
But there was a time when people would buy CD and artist like Habib, Balam, Arnob, Artcell, Black, Warfaze, Hridoy, Aurthohin rocked people for few years, at least a decade. We have some world-class/good musicians, sound engineer but they don't continue to make good songs/music after few album. Pritom, Backstage club, Popeye Bangladesh and few new guys make few good songs sometimes but not like before.

And people play Indian songs in haldi night/marriage cause there isn't any Bangladeshi songs like them. Pritom made one song but didn't gain much popularity. Doesn't mean people don't play Bangladeshi songs in their wedding. So what they listen now?

"O Murshid" By Taheri , "Buk Chin Chin Korche" type cringey songs, even writing these names gives me cringe. Sometime our song and signers become meme content. Singers become actors instead of focusing their career in music. That's the situation in BD. So you can't do anything about what listen. Just because they once sang "Alta Banur Biye" in weeding doesn't mean they will keep doing it. People didn't like when first Rock/Metal song came out but now look how big their fan base is.
  • Our good contents don't get much promotion. Sometimes we don't hear about good contents because there's not trailer/ad/news coverage like Hollywood/Bollywood does. Many of us have to rely on people to listen about a good content. When "Aynabazi" was released, there was long line for ticket in front of cinema hall. I even failed to find a ticket in Star and Shaymoli. I had watch the movie in Balaka and the experience was horrible. I think i talked about it above.
  • Last thing is the language. Most of the Bangladeshis are not good at English. Specially the one who listen/watch these Indian contents. Unlike English and other languages, they don't need to learn or use subtitle for Hindi as both Bengali and Hindi sounds similar sometimes and has same origin. And most Bangladeshi women watch Indian-Bangla serials now.
So in this era of competition, if you fail to compete people will move/shift to anything good enough to find. Like the writer said, it up to us. If people think our hospitals, TV programs, cinemas, songs are not good, they can watch/visit, systems/contents from other countries. Crying not gonna stop that.

People watched and cheered in Ind-Pak cricket match in the past and now they care about only our national cricket team. Similarly people only care about EU club football leagues and Brazil-Argentina-Germany in WC instead of caring about our national team and local leagues. Do you mind then?

It seems the writer and you agree about globalization but only have infinite "CHULKANI" about Indian cultural aggression. If you cry this much about Indian culture then i bet you must be banging your head against wall when you see Western culture has changed and still changing our way of life since the British era. You must be worried about Japanese, Korean and other culture too. :rolleyes:

Tell me Billy boy do you only cry about these cultures too? 😏 Do you cry when our girls wear Pakistani/Kashmiri shawl and people listen Pakistani songs, buy Pakistani chicken and Basmati rice? No, you only cry when people buy "Pakhi", "Karina" dress which can easily manufactured locally with "Indian" tag. I see you talked about "Saas-Bahu" sometimes. :cheesy: Isn't that a Hindi serial? :cheesy: If you hate Indian content that much how do you know that name? :cheesy:

If Bollywood makes good movies like "Padmaavat", "Piku", "Pa", "Delhi-6" etc, anybody will watch. Not only Bangladeshi. Our are not even close to Korean movies let alone Bollywood. Crying doesn't helps you achieve recognition. Regarding "India Govt overtly and covertly controlling Bangladesh policy to de-fund independent Bangladeshi cultural movies, drama", except few times Bangladesh govt always funded local movies and dramas and the number of movies, dramas funded by govt has increased including the budget.









Says the guy who is doing exactly the same thing!! :rofl::rofl: Talking about about independent mindset when he, himself doesn't like when people follow Indian culture and bash others just because they don't give damn about his crying. :rofl: :rofl:





You went through all that to show me this "one line" from an article on counter terrorism in 2013, just to prove your point? 🤨 Read the line and your previous thread again. If our foreign and domestic policies are heavily influenced/decided by India, then why this line says "power" in plural form? The reason is obvious.

The American who wrote the report deliberately refrained from acknowledging the huge Chinese influence. Even if this guy and you try to portray BD subservient to India like some other guys in PDF do sometimes, the ground reality doesn't change at all. China is Bangladesh's major development partner in various sectors besides Japan. And military policies being decided by India?! Don't make me laugh!!

What military policies was ever decided by India? They still cry about $500 million loan and offer their military platforms. Have we take them? Have we forgotten how they cried about two old Chinese subs and submarine base? Again you contradict your own statement. Too hard to remember what you burped earlier?

"Military cooperation with India is a non-starter, especially when Bangladesh is firmly in the China camp. Everyone knows this."

I can show you multiple articles including new ones against your article, even from the Indian and it's ally sources which contradict your claim and say China has more influence than India and cry about it. Even you were cheering in those articles.




Still trying to label it as loot by Indian military even though i debunked your propaganda? 😂 Who has agenda here you said? 🤣




Go study yourself what racial profiling is.




No other reason. Your BSF is either poorly trained or can't follow int'l law properly and can't keep promise just like Indian govt. One of our DG once said that the BSF jawans get deployed in Indo-BD border come from Kashmir where tension is always high. That's they act so aggressive. So he proposed to BSF to keep those jawans in HQ for sometimes before shifting them to Indo-BD where situation is moderate.



India-BD signed Farakka treaty in 1996. The treaty wasn't followed by India. India also open all sluice gates when the dam reaches full capacity during Monsoon season, causing flash flood on this side.



It's already affected. It doesn't remain as internal vote bank politics if your politicians constantly attack Bangladeshis and insult them. It affects people of both countries and bilateral relation. BSF once tried to push in a mental patient in BD including Rohingyas.




India call BD it's closest friend and yet it stays neutral on UN resolution against Myanmar. The least India could do is at least vote in favor of those resolution.



US-Canada doesn't have issues like India-BD has. Two parties are different.



No, we were arguing about operating heavy tank with more than 50 tons weight.
Oi miya ato boro thesis lekho kano? Ekhane ashi binodon er jonne kintu tomar thesis porte giye matha aulae jae o_O
Ekhane ashi mobile browser e kintu tomar thesis bujhte laptop e asha lagbe. Dhur.
 
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nahtanbob

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১৯৭১ সালের মুক্তিযুদ্ধে বীর মুক্তি বাহিনী যখন দেশের ৯৫-৯৯ শতাংশ অঞ্চল মুক্ত করে ফেলেছিল, ঠিক তখন ৩রা ডিসেম্বর ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনী লুটপাট করার জন্য বাংলাদেশে প্রবেশ করে। তারা ১৬ ডিসেম্বরের পর বাংলাদেশ জুড়ে নজির বিহীন লুটপাট চালিয়েছিলো। ৯৩ হাজার পাকিস্তানী সৈন্যদের ফেলে যাওয়া বিপুল পরিমাণ অস্ত্রশস্ত্র ও গোলাবারুদ- যার মূল্য ওই সময় ছিলো ২৭ হাজার কোটি টাকা, তার সবই ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনী ১৫টি বিশাল জাহাজে করে বাংলাদেশ থেকে লুট করে নিয়ে যায়। অথচ সেই অস্ত্রের মালিকানা ছিলো পুরোপুরি বাংলাদেশের।
শুধু তাই নয়, বাংলাদেশের শত শত মিল কারখানার যন্ত্রপাতি, ব্যাংক, স্কুল, কলেজ, বিশ্ববিদ্যালয়, ঘর-বাড়ির গৃহস্থালী জিনিসপত্র পর্যন্ত বাদ যায়নি লোভী ভারতীয় লুটেরাদের হাত থেকে। এসব সম্পদ ও দ্রব্যাদির তখনকার মূল্য ছিলো আনুমানিক ৯০ হাজার কোটি টাকা। শৌচাগারের বদনাগুলোও বাদ দেয়নি ভারতীয় লুটেরার দল। এছাড়াও যুদ্ধকালীন ও যুদ্ধ পরবর্তীকালীন সময়ে বিভিন্ন আন্তর্জাতিক সংস্থার প্রদত্ত বিপুল পরিমাণ অর্থ ও অন্যান্য সাহায্যও লুট করে নিয়ে যায় আমাদের পরম মিত্র (!!!) ভারত।
বাংলাদেশে ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনীর লুন্ঠনের ব্যাপারে আজিজুল করিম ‘হোয়াই সাচ এন্টি-ইন্ডিয়ান ফিলিংস এমং বাংলাদেশী?’ শিরোনামে এক নিবন্ধে ১৯৭৪ সালের ডিসেম্বরে প্রকাশিত ভারতীয় মাসিক ‘অনিক’-এর রিপোর্টের উদ্ধৃতি দিয়ে লিখেছেন, “ভারতীয় সৈন্যদের লুণ্ঠিত মালামালের মূল্য ছিল প্রায় ১শ’ কোটি মার্কিন ডলার।”
বাংলাদেশে ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনীর লুণ্ঠনের ব্যাপারে ‘বাংলাদেশ পাস্ট এন্ড প্রেজেন্ট’ পুস্তকে সালাহউদ্দিন আহমদ লিখেছেন, “যুদ্ধ শেষ হয়ে যাবার পর ভারতীয় সৈন্যরা পার্বত্য চট্টগ্রামে অধিক সময় অবস্থান করতে থাকায় ভারত সমালোচিত হতে থাকে। অভিযোগ করা হয় যে, ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনী ট্রাক বহরে করে বাংলাদেশ থেকে বিপুল পরিমাণ অস্ত্রশস্ত্র ও সাজসরঞ্জাম সরিয়ে নিয়ে যায়। ফলে ভারত বাংলাদেশকে আত্মমর্যাদাশালী রাষ্ট্রের পরিবর্তে একটি তাঁবেদার রাষ্ট্রে পরিণত করতে চায় এমন একটি আশঙ্কা থেকে বাংলাদেশের প্রতি ভারতীয় নীতির বিরুদ্ধে উত্তেজনা ও সংশয় সৃষ্টি হয়।”
মুক্তিযোদ্ধা ও লেখক জয়নাল আবেদীনের ‘র এন্ড বাংলাদেশ’ শিরোনামে লেখা একটি বইয়েও বাংলাদেশে ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনীর লুন্ঠনের বর্ণনা দেয়া হয়েছে। বইটিতে তিনি লিখেছেন, “পাকিস্তানি সৈন্যদের আত্মসমর্পণের পর ভারতীয় সৈন্যদের ব্যাপক লুটতরাজ দেখতে পেয়ে ভারতের প্রকৃত চেহারা আমার কাছে নগ্নভাবে ফুটে উঠে। ভারতীয় সৈন্যরা যা কিছু দেখতে পেতো তার উপর হুমড়ি খেয়ে পড়তো এবং সেগুলো ভারতে বহন করে নিয়ে যেতো। লুটতরাজ সহজতর করার জন্য তারা আমাদের শহর, শিল্প স্থাপনা, বন্দর, সেনানিবাস, বাণিজ্যিক কেন্দ্র এমনকি আবাসিক এলাকায় কারফিউ জারি করে। তারা সিলিং ফ্যান থেকে শুরু করে সামরিক সাজসরঞ্জাম, তৈজষপত্র ও পানির ট্যাপ পর্যন্ত উঠিয়ে নিয়ে যায়। লুণ্ঠিত মালামাল ভারতে পরিবহনের জন্য হাজার হাজার সামরিক যান ব্যবহার করা হয়।”
বইটির আরেকটি অংশে তিনি লিখেছেন, “বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিযুদ্ধের মধ্য দিয়ে ভারত অর্থনৈতিক, সামরিক, কৌশলগত ও আন্তর্জাতিকভাবে ব্যাপক লাভবান হয়েছে। এ কারণে দেশটি তার নিজের স্বার্থে আমাদের মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সম্পৃক্ত হয়, আমাদের স্বার্থে নয়।”
বাংলাদেশে ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনীর লুণ্ঠনের ব্যাপারে “বাংলাদেশ পাস্ট এন্ড প্রেজেন্ট” পুস্তকে সালাহউদ্দিন আহমদ লিখেছেন, “যুদ্ধ শেষ হয়ে যাবার পর ভারতীয় সৈন্যরা পার্বত্য চট্টগ্রামে অধিক সময় অবস্থান করতে থাকায় ভারত সমালোচিত হতে থাকে। অভিযোগ করা হয় যে, ভারতীয় সেনাবাহিনী ট্রাক বহরে করে বাংলাদেশ থেকে বিপুল পরিমাণ অস্ত্রশস্ত্র ও সাজসরঞ্জাম সরিয়ে নিয়ে যায়। ফলে ভারত বাংলাদেশকে আত্মমর্যাদাশালী রাষ্ট্রের পরিবর্তে একটি তাঁবেদার রাষ্ট্রে পরিণত করতে চায় এমন একটি আশঙ্কা থেকে বাংলাদেশের প্রতি ভারতীয় নীতির বিরুদ্ধে উত্তেজনা ও সংশয় সৃষ্টি হয়।”
এবার আসুন দেখি মুক্তিযুদ্ধে “তথাকথিত” সাহায্যের কারণ এবং বর্তমানের লুটপাট।
১. পাকিস্তানকে অর্থনৈতিকভাবে দূর্বল করার লক্ষ্যে দুই টুকরো করতে পারলে ভারতের দীর্ঘদিনের স্বপ্ন বাস্তবায়িত করা, ভারতও ভালভাবেই জানত পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের আয় (বিশেষত পূর্ব পাকিস্তানের পাট, চা, চামড়া, নিউজপ্রিন্ট ও আরো অন্যান্য পন্য রপ্তানী বাবত বিপুল বৈদেশিক মূদ্রা অর্জন ) দিয়েই পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানের অর্থনৈতিক উন্নয়ন বা অর্থনীতির চাকা সচল রাখা হত।
২. পূর্ব পাকিস্তানকে পাকিস্তানের কাছ থেকে বিচ্ছিন্ন করা গেলে সামরিক দিক দিয়েও লাভবান হবে ভারত, ভারতকে আর তার পূর্রাঞ্চলে (ইস্টার্ন সেক্টরে) সামরিক শক্তি মোতায়েন রাখতে হবেনা, পুরো সামরিক শক্তিই তখন ভারতের পশ্চিমাঞ্চলে (ওয়েস্টার্ন সেক্টরে) পাকিস্তানের বিপরীতে প্রস্তুত রাখা যাবে। আরেকটা ব্যাপার ছিল ৬৫ সালের পাক-ভারত পুর্ব পাকিস্তানী(বাংলাদেশী) সৈন্য দের ব্যাপক বীরোচিত আক্রমন।
৩. ভারত বাংলাদেশের অর্থনীতিকে ধীরে ধীরে এমনভাবে ভারত নির্ভরশীল করে তুলবে এবং বাংলাদেশের নিজস্ব অর্থনীতি ও অর্থনীতির মূল শক্তিগুলোকে এমনভাবে ধ্বংশ করে দিবে যাতে বাংলাদেশ অনেকাংশে ভারতের উপর নির্ভর শীল হয়ে থাকে। বাংলাদেশের পাট ও চা শিল্প আরো অনেক আগেই ধ্বংশ হয়ে এখন এই বাজার একচেটিয়া ভারতের দখলে চলে গেছে, বাংলাদেশের গার্মেন্টস শিল্প এবং জনশক্তি রপ্তানী খাতও ভারতের তীব্র প্রতিযোগিতা ও ষড়যন্ত্রের শিকারে পরিনত হয়েছে।
আর উজানে বিভিন্ন নদীতে বাঁধ দিয়ে বাংলাদেশের নদ-নদীকে মরুভূমি বানিয়ে বাংলাদেশের কৃষি, জলবায়ূ ও প্রকৃতিকে ইতমধ্যেই ধ্বংশের শেষ সীমায় ঠেলে দেওয়া হয়েছে। অর্থাৎ বাংলাদেশ স্বাধীন হলেও ভারতের জন্য কোন হুমকী হবেনা, বরং ভারতের লাভই হবে এবং কার্যত ভারতই বাংলাদেশের জন্য হুমকী হয়ে থাকতে পারবে। এসব হিসাব-নিকাশ সঠিকভাবে করেই ভারত ১৯৭১ সালে পূর্ব পাকিস্তানকে পাকিস্তান থেকে পৃথক তথা স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশ হতে সাহায্য করেছিল।

যে কারনে বাঙ্গালীদের মনে এতো প্রশ্ন ভারতের সেই তথাকথিত সাহায্যের জন্য।
কেন ভারত আমাদের ২৬ শে মার্চ এর পর পরই সাহায্য করল না, যদি সত্যই তারা আমাদের সাহায্য করতে চাইত?
রেসকোর্স ময়দানে আমাদের জেনারেল আতাউল গনি ওসমানী সাহেব ছিলেন না কেন? তাকে কি আসতে বাঁধা দেয়া হয়েছিল?
কেন আমরা ৯০ভাগ অঞ্চল মুক্ত করার পর ভারত ডিসেম্বরের ৩ তারিখ আক্রমণ করল?
আপনাদের মনে আছে জর্জ হ্যারিসনের “কনসার্ট ফর বাংলাদেশ” এই ধরনের অনুষ্ঠান গুলো থেকে প্রাপ্ত অর্থ সহ বিশাল পরিমাণ ফান্ডের টাকা গুলো কোথায় গেল? ভারত কি হিসেব দিয়েছিল?
কেন রাশিয়ার দেয়া অস্ত্র গুলো ভারত নিজেদের দেয়া বলে চালিয়ে নিয়েছিল?
‘ইটস মিলিনিয়াম ইয়ার অপরচুনিটি টু ডিভাইড পাকিস্থান ইন্টু টু পিস’ – এই কথাটি কে বলেছিল?
বস্তুত বাংলাদেশের মুক্তিযুদ্ধের মধ্য দিয়ে ভারত অর্থনৈতিক, সামরিক, কৌশলগত ও আন্তর্জাতিকভাবে ব্যাপক লাভবান হয়েছে। এ কারণে দেশটি তার নিজের স্বার্থে আমাদের মুক্তিযুদ্ধে সম্পৃক্ত হয়, আমাদের স্বার্থে নয়।” আজ এরাই গলা লম্বা করে বলে তারা নাকি বাংলাদেশকে সাহায্যে না করলে দেশ স্বাধীন হতনা!!! এই জন্যই বলে চোরের মার বড় গলা !

Google translation -


In the war of liberation of 1971, when the heroic liberation forces had liberated 95-99 percent of the country, on December 3, the Indian army entered Bangladesh to loot. They carried out unprecedented looting across Bangladesh after 16 December. The huge quantity of arms and ammunition left behind by 93,000 Pakistani soldiers - valued at Rs 26,000 crore at the time - was looted from Bangladesh by the Indian Army in 15 large ships. But that weapon was completely owned by Bangladesh.

Not only that, the equipment of hundreds of mills in Bangladesh, banks, schools, colleges, universities, even household items were not spared from the hands of greedy Indian looters. The value of these assets and commodities at that time was approximately 90 thousand crore rupees. The Indian looters did not leave out the toilet bowls either. India, our absolute ally (!!!), also looted huge sums of money and other aid provided by various international organizations during and after the war.
Azizul Karim, in an article titled 'Why Such Anti-Indian Feelings and Bangladeshis?' . ”

Salahuddin Ahmed wrote in his book 'Bangladesh Past and Present' about the plunder of Indian army in Bangladesh, It is alleged that the Indian Army removed a large quantity of arms and equipment from Bangladesh by truck. As a result, the fear that India wants to turn Bangladesh into a tyrannical state instead of a self-respecting state creates tension and suspicion against Indian policy towards Bangladesh.

A book by freedom fighter and writer Joynal Abedin titled 'R&D Bangladesh' also describes the plunder of the Indian Army in Bangladesh. In the book, he writes, "After the surrender of the Pakistani soldiers, seeing the massive looting of the Indian soldiers, the true face of India came to my notice. Indian soldiers stumbled upon whatever they saw and carried it to India. To facilitate looting, they imposed curfews in our cities, industrial establishments, ports, cantonments, commercial centers and even in residential areas. They carry everything from ceiling fans to military equipment, utensils and water taps. Thousands of military vehicles are used to transport looted goods to India. ”

In another part of the book, he writes, “India has benefited immensely economically, militarily, strategically and internationally through the liberation war of Bangladesh. That is why the country is involved in our liberation war in its own interest, not in our interest. ”

Salahuddin Ahmed wrote in his book "Bangladesh Past and Present" about the plunder of Indian army in Bangladesh, "After the end of the war, India was criticized for keeping Indian troops in the Chittagong Hill Tracts for a long time. It is alleged that the Indian Army removed a large quantity of arms and equipment from Bangladesh by truck. As a result, the fear that India wants to turn Bangladesh into a tyrannical state instead of a self-respecting state has created tension and suspicion against Indian policy towards Bangladesh. ”

Now let's look at the reasons for the "so-called" help in the liberation war and the current looting.

1. Realizing India's long-held dream of tearing Pakistan apart economically, India was well aware of East Pakistan's economic development (especially its huge foreign exchange earnings from East Pakistan's jute, tea, leather, newsprint and other exports). The wheel was kept in motion.

2. Separating East Pakistan from Pakistan would also benefit India militarily. India does not have to deploy military force in its eastern sector, the entire military force can be kept ready in the western sector of India as opposed to Pakistan. Another issue was the massive heroic attack of the Pak-India East Pakistani (Bangladeshi) troops in 1965.

3. India will gradually make Bangladesh's economy dependent on India and destroy Bangladesh's own economy and the key forces of the economy in such a way that Bangladesh becomes largely dependent on India. Bangladesh's jute and tea industries have long since collapsed and the market is now monopolized by India, and Bangladesh's garment industry and manpower export sector have also fallen victim to India's fierce competition and conspiracy.

And by building dams on various rivers upstream and turning the rivers of Bangladesh into deserts, the agriculture, climate and nature of Bangladesh have already been pushed to the brink of destruction. In other words, even if Bangladesh becomes independent, there will be no threat to India, but India will benefit and in practice India will be a threat to Bangladesh. By doing these calculations properly, India helped East Pakistan in 1971 to become an independent Bangladesh.

That is why there are so many questions in the minds of Bengalis for the so-called help of India.

Why didn't India help us after March 26, if they really wanted to help us?

Why was our General Ataul Gani Osmani not on the racecourse ground? Was he prevented from coming?
Why did India invade on 3rd December after we liberated 90% of the territory?

Do you remember where the huge amount of money including the money from George Harrison's "Concert for Bangladesh" went? What did India calculate?
Why did India continue to claim the weapons given by Russia as its own?
‘It’s Millennium Year Opportunity to Divide Pakistan Into Peace’ - who said that?

In fact, through the liberation war of Bangladesh, India has benefited immensely economically, militarily, strategically and internationally. That is why the country is involved in our liberation war in its own interest, not in our interest. ” Today they are the ones who say that the country would not be independent if they did not help Bangladesh !!! This is why the thief's throat is big!

Source - https://www.facebook.com/groups/503322647322989/permalink/505446543777266/
(Defresca group)
What did India exactly loot ? You mention a large quantity of weapons. Is this the weapons of 93,000 Pakistani troops ? In the grand scheme of things that is not a lot of money
 

Bengal71

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I want to genuinely understand so sincerely asking the below questions. Hopefully, would not get needless hate.

Do you recognize the sacrifice of 3K+ Indian army soldiers in liberating BD ?
Do you recognize the refuge, tranining and arms supplies provided to Mukti Bahini by Indian Army?
I do not recognise, sorry to say . Because we did not invite them. They came uninvited , because already war started between Pakistan and India on the western front. So they were not the part of our liberation war .

I recognize only refuge help of Indian govt . And Mukti bahini was not trained by Indian Army , but it was East Bengal regiment of Pakistan army rebelled and fought the battle and under them freedom fighters trained and fought . Also EPR ( later BDR and now BGB ) fought, police fought , Ansar fought , and civilians fought.

However BSF trained some other force Like Mujib Bahini that was unknown to Mujib Nagor govt , and also they ( mujib bahini ) did not take oath to Mujib nagor govt . So basically we do not consider them as freedom fighter!
I am so ashamed that some of our people lost the basic decency of acknowledging the help and sacrifices of a friend who came to our assistance at the most critical juncture of the entire thousands of years history of the Bengali nation. It's almost as though some of our people decided to put on display the highest extent of shamelessness and ingratitude. Without India's assistance starting right from March 26th to the very end of the war, nothing was going to stop the Pak troops from totally eradicating our people or enslaving them worse than the British did. We literally had nothing, no government of our own, no treasury, no military, nothing. Everything our land had was in the firm control of Pak government from '47 to '71. Without any external help, we would just be lined up by the rivers, shot and our bodies thrown into the rivers until we were all finished. That is the exact intention the Pak troops went there with, they never wanted the people, just wanted the land.

But I am not surprised. It's a common nouveau rajakar narrative. They have gotten smart, they know directly talking against the independence of BD isn't viable. So they changed their ways, they first start by saying things that are very patriotic sounding, then they slowly and gradually drive the narrative towards how India is harming BD in many ways and how they did it in '71 too, first by helping BD with the ulterior motive of breaking up Pakistan, then by looting all Pakistani weapons and Industrial machinery. If they detect a dumb and ignorant one, they advance the narrative and try to indoctrinate in the jamat-shibir ideology. It's been going on for too long.
 

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