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History of the looting of the Indian army in the war of liberation , and reasons of helping us (Bangladesh)

Atlas

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jamati terrorists dont know benefits of liberation from rape, murder, slavery .we liberated you from rape , murder, looting ,exploitation , slavery .
Why such angry? Are you really an Indian or a Bangladeshi chetona khor who's grandfather was Razakar and now he ( grandchild) is soooo insecure that in order to prove himself as the best chetona khor he is tagging every one as Jamati in order to make a position in BAL? Don't worry , such clowns will always remain as the third kid of a goat in BAL !

These people are slave minded and literally more Indian than Indian themselves, yes truly such low creature exist in Bangladesh!

Or do you fear that Muktizuddho Mancho ( made by raw with few hundreds of people) will start movement again against grandchildren of Razakars who may spoil the so called chetona of freedom fight? Don't worry they won't harm your place in BAL , as BAL itself doesn't care about them ( Muktizuddho Mancho) nowadays!

I suspect you could be one of them. Otherwise why an Indian will be sooo aggressive and will tag Bangladeshis as Jamati?
 
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magra

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Why such angry? Are you really an Indian or a Bangladeshi chetona khor who's grandfather was Razakar and now he ( grandchild) is soooo insecure that in order to prove himself as the best chetona khor he is tagging every one as Jamati in order to make a position in BAL? Don't worry , such clowns will always remain as the third kid of a goat in BAL !

These people are slave minded and literally more Indian than Indian themselves, yes truly such low creature exist in Bangladesh!

Or do you fear that Muktizuddho Mancho ( made by raw with few hundreds of people) will start movement again against grandchildren of Razakars who may spoil the so called chetona of freedom fight? Don't worry they won't harm your place in BAL , as BAL itself doesn't care about them ( Muktizuddho Mancho) nowadays!

I suspect you could be one of the. Otherwise why an Indian will be sooo aggressive and will tag Bangladeshis as Jamati?
I dont think he meant to be aggressive or abusive to Bangladeshis. He was responding to one guy who has a history (based on his posts I read) of being unnecessarily abusive of India.
 

Atlas

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I don't know if they changed it, but the constitution still starts with "Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim". Maybe @Al-zakir bhai knows.
Bhai , constitution still starts with Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim .

If anyone will try to change it , they will be kicked out from power once and for all . It's a one way road , and no way to return.

People of Bangladesh aren't bigot , but they are religious. So religious people won't tolerate anything against Islam , inshallah.
I dont think he meant to be aggressive or abusive to Bangladeshis. He was responding to one guy who has a history (based on his posts I read) of being unnecessarily abusive of India.
Oh so whoever shall abuse India he/she is Jamati? Is it the golden standard to become a Jamati?
He/she doesn't have to be a part of Jamati Islam or any other militant islamic party?

Okay understood , I will remember that!

@idune will be happy who like to tag everyone as BAL cheerleader who go against his opinion! Now he has a fellow!
 
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Atlas

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Bangladesh is not an Islamic country. Its a secular country
Bangladesh is technically a secular country , but we don't use this term secular for non religious.

We use the word secular for ,"Freedom for all religion/religious body".

Islam is officially the state religion of Bangladesh and will always remain the state religion of Bangladesh.
 

Bilal9

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I dont think he meant to be aggressive or abusive to Bangladeshis. He was responding to one guy who has a history (based on his posts I read) of being unnecessarily abusive of India.
Why are you apologizing for this guy??

Calling people names personally is against forum rules.

I reported him.

And to clarify the point I always make, Indian Sanghis are the number one enemies of Bangladesh. Is that being abusive?

Every point I EVER make about India is rooted in FACT !!

Your mota bhai calls us Bangladeshi "ghoospetias". Is that abusive?

Your BJP/RSS/Bajrang Dal folks vilify Bangladeshis on media as sub-human constantly. Is that abusive?

Why should we support your country economically/politically/culturally in the way we do - to the tune of some $50 Billion a year or more? Just for your mota politicians to call us ghoospetias?

Please stop muddying the waters and blowing smoke at us - nothing you say will change Bangladeshi minds.

Not being abusive, this is just stating facts. We have had enough of Sanghi BS.

Instead of calling us abusive - go back and try to elect a better politician as PM and vote for a party that is not composed of fascists.

Unmasking fascists is not abuse in my book.

We weren't born yesterday and we can see right through Sanghis and their schemes.
 

bahadur

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Why such angry? Are you really an Indian or a Bangladeshi chetona khor who's grandfather was Razakar and now he ( grandchild) is soooo insecure that in order to prove himself as the best chetona khor he is tagging every one as Jamati in order to make a position in BAL? Don't worry , such clowns will always remain as the third kid of a goat in BAL !

These people are slave minded and literally more Indian than Indian themselves, yes truly such low creature exist in Bangladesh!

Or do you fear that Muktizuddho Mancho ( made by raw with few hundreds of people) will start movement again against grandchildren of Razakars who may spoil the so called chetona of freedom fight? Don't worry they won't harm your place in BAL , as BAL itself doesn't care about them ( Muktizuddho Mancho) nowadays!

I suspect you could be one of the. Otherwise why an Indian will be sooo aggressive and will tag Bangladeshis as Jamati?
lol jamati razakar of al badra al shams , your designs will never materialise . :mad:
 

KedarT

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The trend of Islamization in Bangladesh among the new generation (X,Y) compared to millennials has actually increased. They still respect other religions, but one should not make the mistake of saying they are getting more westernized like Indians are (for example). They are getting more modern on their own terms (a la Malaysians and Indonesians), and not aping the West like Indians do.
Nice trend:rolleyes1:
 

Signalian

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India is using the same devious method against Pakistan through TTP and other organizations since more than a decade now, on the same lines how it funded and trained MB.
 

CatSultan

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Wrong.

I don't know if they changed it, but the constitution still starts with "Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim". Maybe @Al-zakir bhai knows. There was an attempt made by a Hindu India-Shill Minister (Suranjit Sen Gupta) at one point to drop it. He tabled the motion AFAIK.

The trend of Islamization in Bangladesh among the new generation (X,Y) compared to millennials has actually increased. They still respect other religions, but one should not make the mistake of saying they are getting more westernized like Indians are (for example). They are getting more modern on their own terms (a la Malaysians and Indonesians), and not aping the West like Indians do.

To demonstrate this in an overt way, here is how most millennial Bangladeshi women dress nowadays - practicing modest Islamic fashion trends. I'd say, looking at videos and such, I see this more prevalent in Bangladesh than Pakistani upper class or upper middle class women nowadays.




Of course there are non-Hijabi Bangladeshi Muslim women, but nowadays, one can easily tell among Bangladeshi women who is Hindu and who is Muslim. Twenty years ago, aping Hindu traditions were more prevalent and you could not tell women apart like this.
But you don't have Shariah Law. And you are the "peoples republic of bangladesh" not the "Islamic republic of Bangladesh"
 

Baibars_1260

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Thread derailed.
Some relevant posts here:
 
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ziaulislam

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Bold part , I am taking it as offense against my nation. who was our old master then ? West Pakistan?
not really all constitutions of Pakistan before 1971 had equal representations to both east and west Pakistan, and listed both bengali and urdu as national langauage

the dispute was why equal?

therefore in 1971 election, this was discarded and east Pakistan had more seats then west Pakistan, and hence Mujeeb ur Rehman came into govt without securing a SINGLE SEAT IN EAST PAKISTAN ..and refusing to agree on power sharing deal

and what happened afterwards is history ..instead of treasuring 7 (bengali, punjabi, urdu, sindhi, pushto, balochi and srikai) large regional, national languages and cultures we saw a power struggle between bengalis and 6 other minorities group..

the largest party (bengalis) refused to give some to minoirties..such arrangements never work..

the current pakistan is united because punjab gave up some of its power to minorities
tying bengaldesh to kashmir would have been devasttating for bengal

better bengal got separated, the only wish we have if it was done peacefully

regardless, it is in bengal interest to have strong relations with india, and not spur any hatred between

buy LCA to make them even stronger
 

Baibars_1260

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For the comments of our guests here:

Good points and very good questions.
The broader picture here is that at the tactical command level we had some very capable generals who were strictly professional.
Generals like Yakub Khan already knew that East Pakistan was indefensible without the help of the local people who had turned against us. De-classified information now available shows that generals like Yakub Khan had already advised Yahya Khan as early as March 1971 that it would be impossible to hold East Pakistan, and via negotiations it should be let go. Henry Kissinger had briefed the US President Nixon about Yahya Khan wanting to vacate East Pakistan.

Before we ramble off into the "hows and why" this didn't happen, we must return to the topic of how Pakistan was able to deny its equipment to both Bangladesh and India. At the tactical level, Pakistan had 9 months to put in place a plan to disable any war materiel that would be lost.

The most telling aspect of Pakistan's resignation to the loss of East Pakistan was the fact that only twelve 40's era F-86 jets were left in East Pakistan for air defense, whereas there were dozen squadrons of F-6s, B-57s, Mirage 3, F-104s in West Pakistan as well as Sidewinder armed and radar linked F-86s. Heavy tanks, artillery, and engineer regiment were all in the West.,

It was clear as early as April that Pakistan was hunkering down to survive the Indian onslaught in the West. Pakistan hoped to save East Pakistan through foreign ( US or UN ) intervention diplomatic and military posturing on India, not through military action which was unfeasible.

We are a patriotic people at the ground level, and regardless of how flawed our leadership is, the person on ground knows his duty. So PIA ground maintenance crew at Tejgaon Airport in Dacca had plans to quickly destroy the instruments, tools, maintenance rigs, control tower communications equipment before fleeing, which they did .

The 12 F-86 Sabres were also disabled of which only 3 could be restored to a precarious flying condition.
If there are 45,000 combat troops and they are patriotic ,and not traitors, and if they are trained to destroy their weapons they WILL do it,
If each squad is assigned to destroy their own equipment it can be done in a very short time.
An artillery piece can be damaged by an overcharge in its barrel, and a tank can be disabled in minutes by fouling its fuel line with an additive ruining the engine, and later blasting its tracks off with an improvised charge.
A patrol boat can be sunk within minutes by a charge in its hull.
The Germans scuttled the pocket battleship 16000 MT Graf Spee in minutes after the Battle of the River Plate ( December 1939), rather than allow it to be captured. If you talk to veterans of the 1971 war now fast dying off, they will tell you how they simply pushed their trucks into the water off a bridge. Small arms are the easiest to destroy by taking a welding torch to the muzzle and plugging it or simply removing the bolt or trigger assembly and crushing it with a hammer or throwing it into the water. If each soldier is trained to destroy his personal weapon there isn't much left to be captured after surrender.

No army in the world allows capture of their equipment, even if they surrender themselves, and they know exactly how to destroy their equipment easily and quickly.

This is not to say that weapons are not captured when soldiers fighting to the end, are killed instantly in an air attack, or shelling and their warehouses or arms depots are overrun in a lightning campaign. This happened early during World War 2 at Dunkirk, or in France and Russia but even here the British were smart enough to disable a large portion of the equipment they left behind.
The fighting in Bangladesh was nowhere close to the intensity of Stalingrad or Berlin. General Niazi had a full 24-48 hours to surrender and in fact the situation had turned as early as 11th December itself. There was ample time for the soldiers to begin destroying their equipment.

But there is further evidence that very little fell into Indian or more importantly Bangladeshi hands.
Indian officers like Colonel Piyush Ghosh, and others themselves say Pakistan efficiently disabled or destroyed its equipment If India had captured large quantities of vehicles, trucks rest assured they would have released a whole movie on it. See this video ( point 17:24) of equipment of surrendered by East Germany after reunification in the aftermath of the Cold War. East Germans could have destroyed their equipment but they did not.

When I visited Bangladesh in 2008, the BDR were still using Chinese supplied SKS rifles, from the 1940s and there were still SMLE 0.303 rifles with the police.

There were very few obsolete Chaffee light tanks in use in Bangladesh. Even these were disabled.

My conclusion is that the biggest assets Pakistan had were a large fleet of Boeing 707 B aircraft which maintained two flights linking Karachi, Dhaka, daily and some Fokker Friendship turboprop aircraft . These were recovered and returned to Pakistan.
India could keep General Niazi's Mercedes.
The broader picture here is that at the tactical command level we had some very capable generals who were strictly professional.
Generals like Yakub Khan already knew that East Pakistan was indefensible without the help of the local people who had turned against us. De-classified information now available shows that generals like Yakub Khan had already advised Yahya Khan as early as March 1971 that it would be impossible to hold East Pakistan, and via negotiations it should be let go. Henry Kissinger had briefed the US President Nixon about Yahya Khan wanting to vacate East Pakistan.

Before we ramble off into the "hows and why" this didn't happen, we must return to the topic of how Pakistan was able to deny its equipment to both Bangladesh and India. At the tactical level, Pakistan had 9 months to put in place a plan to disable any war materiel that would be lost.

The most telling aspect of Pakistan's resignation to the loss of East Pakistan was the fact that only twelve 40's era F-86 jets were left in East Pakistan for air defense, whereas there were dozen squadrons of F-6s, B-57s, Mirage 3, F-104s in West Pakistan as well as Sidewinder armed and radar linked F-86s. Heavy tanks, artillery, and engineer regiment were all in the West.,

It was clear as early as April that Pakistan was hunkering down to survive the Indian onslaught in the West. Pakistan hoped to save East Pakistan through foreign ( US or UN ) intervention diplomatic and military posturing on India, not through military action which was unfeasible.

We are a patriotic people at the ground level, and regardless of how flawed our leadership is, the person on ground knows his duty. So PIA ground maintenance crew at Tejgaon Airport in Dacca had plans to quickly destroy the instruments, tools, maintenance rigs, control tower communications equipment before fleeing, which they did .

The 12 F-86 Sabres were also disabled of which only 3 could be restored to a precarious flying condition.
If there are 45,000 combat troops and they are patriotic ,and not traitors, and if they are trained to destroy their weapons they WILL do it,
If each squad is assigned to destroy their own equipment it can be done in a very short time.
An artillery piece can be damaged by an overcharge in its barrel, and a tank can be disabled in minutes by fouling its fuel line with an additive ruining the engine, and later blasting its tracks off with an improvised charge.
A patrol boat can be sunk within minutes by a charge in its hull.
The Germans scuttled the pocket battleship 16000 MT Graf Spee in minutes after the Battle of the River Plate ( December 1939), rather than allow it to be captured. If you talk to veterans of the 1971 war now fast dying off, they will tell you how they simply pushed their trucks into the water off a bridge. Small arms are the easiest to destroy by taking a welding torch to the muzzle and plugging it or simply removing the bolt or trigger assembly and crushing it with a hammer or throwing it into the water. If each soldier is trained to destroy his personal weapon there isn't much left to be captured after surrender.

No army in the world allows capture of their equipment, even if they surrender themselves, and they know exactly how to destroy their equipment easily and quickly.

This is not to say that weapons are not captured when soldiers fighting to the end, are killed instantly in an air attack, or shelling and their warehouses or arms depots are overrun in a lightning campaign. This happened early during World War 2 at Dunkirk, or in France and Russia but even here the British were smart enough to disable a large portion of the equipment they left behind.
The fighting in Bangladesh was nowhere close to the intensity of Stalingrad or Berlin. General Niazi had a full 24-48 hours to surrender and in fact the situation had turned as early as 11th December itself. There was ample time for the soldiers to begin destroying their equipment.

But there is further evidence that very little fell into Indian or more importantly Bangladeshi hands.
Indian officers like Colonel Piyush Ghosh, and others themselves say Pakistan efficiently disabled or destroyed its equipment If India had captured large quantities of vehicles, trucks rest assured they would have released a whole movie on it. See this video ( point 17:24) of equipment of surrendered by East Germany after reunification in the aftermath of the Cold War. East Germans could have destroyed their equipment but they did not.

When I visited Bangladesh in 2008, the BDR were still using Chinese supplied SKS rifles, from the 1940s and there were still SMLE 0.303 rifles with the police.

There were very few obsolete Chaffee light tanks in use in Bangladesh. Even these were disabled.

My conclusion is that the biggest assets Pakistan had were a large fleet of Boeing 707 B aircraft which maintained two flights linking Karachi, Dhaka, daily and some Fokker Friendship turboprop aircraft . These were recovered and returned to Pakistan.
 

Bilal9

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not really all constitutions of Pakistan before 1971 had equal representations to both east and west Pakistan, and listed both bengali and urdu as national langauage

the dispute was why equal?

therefore in 1971 election, this was discarded and east Pakistan had more seats then west Pakistan, and hence Mujeeb ur Rehman came into govt without securing a SINGLE SEAT IN EAST PAKISTAN ..and refusing to agree on power sharing deal

and what happened afterwards is history ..instead of treasuring 7 (bengali, punjabi, urdu, sindhi, pushto, balochi and srikai) large regional, national languages and cultures we saw a power struggle between bengalis and 6 other minorities group..

the largest party (bengalis) refused to give some to minoirties..such arrangements never work..

the current pakistan is united because punjab gave up some of its power to minorities
tying bengaldesh to kashmir would have been devasttating for bengal

better bengal got separated, the only wish we have if it was done peacefully

regardless, it is in bengal interest to have strong relations with india, and not spur any hatred between

buy LCA to make them even stronger
I have to politely disagree. Nearly every assessment you made can be argued successfully, but I am short of time and will leave it for another day.
 

Bilal9

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But you don't have Shariah Law. And you are the "peoples republic of bangladesh" not the "Islamic republic of Bangladesh"
I don't know if you need Shariah law as a constitution to become an Islamic country. We can look at actual Islamic countries and see if they truly adopted Shariah as law.

If you go by how deeply embedded Sunni Islamic values are in the population, then Bangladesh is by far an Islamic country.

If we adopt Shariah - then non-Muslims will become dhimmis and may have to pay Jiziah tax, which I don't believe will ever happen in Bangladesh.

Bangladeshi society is based on respect for non-adherent Bnagladeshis (Hindus, Buddhists, Christians) while we Muslim Bangladeshis pursue and adhere to Islam.

One cannot force people to convert to Islam. Never works.

Those who come to Islam must come because it is a better and fairer way to lead your life. A better aqidah in other words.

Al Kafirun (Qur'an 109:1-6)



"Say: O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine. "

Bangladesh is not like middle eastern Islamic countries, it is a very moderate one. Closest analogs are Indonesia, though Indonesia is ahead of us economically. But many values are similar, there is more tolerance for dissent and fair play.

However one would be wrong if they questioned the depth of our faith just because most of the population are not zealots. Bangladeshis are deeply faithful, but they do not wear Islam on their collective sleeves. They also do not believe in persecuting non-believers, which we unfortunately see in India today with non-Hindu persecution, for example.

The rate of female empowerment (opportunities in jobs and education) for us is higher than India and even US (more females in jobs than them percentage wise). Far less females in India are employed as a percentage compared to our country.

There are more females than males in school from grades 1 through 12 in Bangladesh.

This is seen a prerequisite to becoming a better country having opportunities for all citizens IMHO.

But we are again, straying far from the topic of the thread.
 
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