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Hindi language resources in Pakistan, Why important.

Baibars_1260

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The military and government are keeping tabs on all of India already just because Radio Pakistan has limited its services doesnt mean that assets and intelligence within India has suddenly evaporated.

In terms of cultural influence, Indians are not worth the effort and it would be far more efficient for Pakistan to focus on projecting itself across its North and Western borders Instead.
Agree on the extreme importance of the Northern and Western borders but the most lethal threat is from the East. Knowing the enemy, and understand it is a great
advantage. It's not only language but the culture associated with it and it does make a difference.
In the third Battle of Panipat Ahmed Shah was advised by his intelligence on astrology to know when the enemy would be least likely to launch an offensive due to an inauspicious period.
In World War 2 the Allies closely monitored Japanese Shinto tradition. The Allies also monitored Hitler's astrologer and theosophical advisers trying to predict when the German forces were most likely to launch offensives.
Some things are downright practical:
An enemy structure such as barracks or housing is likely to follow the Vastu tradition. If one knows Vastu ( search on line for more info) it is very easy to estimate where a kitchen, office, rest room in a building will be located even if viewed from above such as from an arial photograph . Not all buildings follow Vastu but many of the of new ones do.
 

achhu

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Agree..for military intelligence we have adequate resources and hopefully we will not be in a disadvantage, as we were in 1971 with Bangla resources.This is a multi generational war which for 70 years we fought successfully. It is now that our resources are strained because we no longer have a displaced persons pool. Hate to say this, but a holocaust of Indian Muslims would undoubtedly bring us a fresh windfall of displaced persons, hugely beneficial to our language resource pool; but until that happens we are constrained.

There is a 5th generation war on. Enemy guest speakers on our TV channels routinely mock us using their below average but still present language skills. Here on the PDF we have enemy members routinely using their third rate language capabilities with very little response. The fight must be taken to the enemy by a collective effort nloot merely through government agencies. It is psychologically extremely demoralizing for a Telugu speaking member on the PDF to know someone has read and understood the latest editorial in Eenadu .
Abdul gafoor on work in Jamia nagar . :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 

Baibars_1260

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Ek se badhkar ek milte hai yahan
In Hindi: एक से बढ़कर एक मिलते हैं यहाँ
Don't you think it is a great career for young Pakistani youth ?
Instead of pursuing drab traditional careers ( Engineering Accounts etc,) a degree in a language like Hindi or Gurmukhi Punjabi gets one straight into a Ministry of Foreign Affairs job.,
I know one young Pakistani Punjabi scholar who mastered classical Punjabi in Gurmukhi and had exciting deputations to Canada and UK. Being a natural Punjabi speaker and already well versed in the Shahmukhi style of written Punjabi it didn't take long for him to get proficient in Gurmukhi.

It is a pity we "Urdufied" the next generation of our extremely diverse immigrant population in Karachi and Hyderabad. There was ( or may still be ) a Telugu speaking population. Tamils are more resilient. There is still a tiny Tamil speaking population in Karachi .
 

Deltadart

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This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.


We should also learn Yiddish than.
Actually, not only yiddish, but hebrew, hindu, sanskrit etc. These are invaluable assets for the future. We must have a single institute that specializes in the languages that our enemies speak.
Absolutely.

Our Hindu minorities in Sindh and Punjab would be able to read the Devanagari script very easily, though I am not sure if they would be able to fully understand the Hindi sentence structure and updated vocabulary.

There is a Sanskrit department at the school of languages in Punjab University. The Sanskrit script is identical to the modern official Hindi script (when printed). It differs very slightly when written with fewer dots ( bindi) and more straight lines indicating periods or stops between sentences.,Modern Hindi uses more modified letters with dots signifying foreign imported sounds like "ja" with a dot below representing the sound for "z" ( zed or zee ).

But knowing Sanskrit doesn't necessarily mean that the person would understand Hindi.
Tamils are quite fluent in Sanskrit but they don't speak or understand Hindi. Sanskrit is also a classical religious language. It is similar to an south asian imam being able to read write and recite verses from the Quran but being unable converse in modern Arabic.

For a Pakistani student of Sanskrit knowing modern Hindi is dead easy, because the Sanskrit words apply and the identical Urdu grammar can be cloned in ( keeping in mind to use "kee" instead of "kay").

I think the University of Punjab and Sindh should piggy-back Hindi onto the Sanskrit faculty. That would be cost effective and great way develop language resources. Not sure if the Sanskrit teachers could teach Hindi but could easily take a refresher course.

We could then read the Panchang
and know if the astrologers are predicting the best timings for an airstrike on us.

,😂👏
 

Baibars_1260

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Abdul gafoor on work in Jamia nagar . :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Achchu,

Would invite you to come over and teach us Hindi.
Do apply here for a position. A job is guaranteed.
How else would we get a genuine Pathshala trained Hindi teacher?


The teachers hostel comes complete with a toilet.
 
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Flash_Ninja

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Agree on the extreme importance of the Northern and Western borders but the most lethal threat is from the East. Knowing the enemy, and understand it is a great
advantage. It's not only language but the culture associated with it and it does make a difference.
In the third Battle of Panipat Ahmed Shah was advised by his intelligence on astrology to know when the enemy would be least likely to launch an offensive due to an inauspicious period.
In World War 2 the Allies closely monitored Japanese Shinto tradition. The Allies also monitored Hitler's astrologer and theosophical advisers trying to predict when the German forces were most likely to launch offensives.
Some things are downright practical:
An enemy structure such as barracks or housing is likely to follow the Vastu tradition. If one knows Vastu ( search on line for more info) it is very easy to estimate where a kitchen, office, rest room in a building will be located even if viewed from above such as from an arial photograph . Not all buildings follow Vastu but many of the of new ones do.
I was simply pointing out with regards to that Pakistan would have far better results focusing on the Middle East, Afghanistan, Central Asia, and Western China, if it was to promote Pakistani culture (Music, films, TV) overseas.

I understand where you are coming from but the world isnt so superstitious anymore and India borrows a lot of its military tradition from the British, which Pakistan already has the upper hand given that it was a breeding ground for the bulk of British Raj soldiers and officers; so there is already a lot of understanding in how they operate to the point where (As 27.01.19 proved) we can attack them in broad daylight and brand them a humiliating defeat.
 

SQ8

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From what Ive heard Israelis have a dedicated department for south asian languages including that for Pakistani ones - it helps their intel folks understand the languages. Intel not just for military intel but also civilian institutions assisting in formulating state policy based upon understanding local issues in each lingual region. Hence, Sindhi or Baloch social media feeds can be understood and manipulated in their own lingua and familiarity.
But then, there are others who may see this as spurious effort; time will tell - and tell soon.
 

Baibars_1260

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Actually, not only yiddish, but hebrew, hindu, sanskrit etc. These are invaluable assets for the future. We must have a single institute that specializes in the languages that our enemies speak.
👍 We once had fantastic resources with Telugu, Tamil, Coorgi, Malayalam, and Marathi speaking persons. The immigration from India completely stopped in 1971 and has never resumed since even after the then Indian Foreign Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee met General Zia Ul Haq and resumed diplomatic relations ( 1978/1979 I think).
But it is not just understanding the enemy that is important but ensuring that the enemy doesn't understand us.

It is interesting to know that the USA faced the same dilemma in World War 2 when all their language resources and codes were compromised by the Japanese. The enemy could match any language resource the USA put up.
So the USA finally resorted to getting Navajo Native Americans to talk on the radio in their native tongue, The Japanese were outfoxed. Likewise the Soviets used Central Asian troops during World War 2 talking in Karakalpak, Kazaakh, or troops from Siberia speaking one of the many Siberian dialects such as Buriyati. Language diversity does make a difference and has tremendous military advantages. If we encourage Baluchis to use Brahui it will be a hard code to crack.

I hate to be cynical and callous but a continued oppression of Muslims in India may eventually produce a migration that would significantly improve our language assets.
 

Deltadart

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👍 We once had fantastic resources with Telugu, Tamil, Coorgi, Malayalam, and Marathi speaking persons. The immigration from India completely stopped in 1971 and has never resumed since even after the then Indian Foreign Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee met General Zia Ul Haq and resumed diplomatic relations ( 1978/1979 I think).
But it is not just understanding the enemy that is important but ensuring that the enemy doesn't understand us.

It is interesting to know that the USA faced the same dilemma in World War 2 when all their language resources and codes were compromised by the Japanese. The enemy could match any language resource the USA put up.
So the USA finally resorted to getting Navajo Native Americans to talk on the radio in their native tongue, The Japanese were outfoxed. Likewise the Soviets used Central Asian troops during World War 2 talking in Karakalpak, Kazaakh, or troops from Siberia speaking one of the many Siberian dialects such as Buriyati. Language diversity does make a difference and has tremendous military advantages. If we encourage Baluchis to use Brahui it will be a hard code to crack.

I hate to be cynical and callous but a continued oppression of Muslims in India may eventually produce a migration that would significantly improve our language assets.
Yes and they should bring their land with them. If indians want to get rid of their muslims so badly then give them lands contiguous to pakistan. ,,😇
 

Goenitz

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@Baibars_1260
I heard that Settar Alvi and co developed a language with mixture of urdu+punjabi+pashto as Isreali could understand urdu, plus they had indian support... so their communication couldn't be interpreted during the arab isreali war.. though communications are more secure now, but knowing language/culture etc can make things easy..
 
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Baibars_1260

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From what Ive heard Israelis have a dedicated department for south asian languages including that for Pakistani ones - it helps their intel folks understand the languages. Intel not just for military intel but also civilian institutions assisting in formulating state policy based upon understanding local issues in each lingual region. Hence, Sindhi or Baloch social media feeds can be understood and manipulated in their own lingua and familiarity.
But then, there are others who may see this as spurious effort; time will tell - and tell soon.
I read somewhere ( will have to research it again) that Israel was aware of PAF pilots flying for the Jordanian and Syrian air force in the 1967 and 1973 wars and decided to expose them using the language tool.
They got Punjabi speakers ( ex-pat Indians ) to swear at them over the radio waves ( RT) when they were in flight hoping to provoke the PAF into responding in kind. The PAF pilots held their silence.

I understand where you are coming from but the world isnt so superstitious anymore and India borrows a lot of its military tradition from the British, which Pakistan already has the upper hand given that it was a breeding ground for the bulk of British Raj soldiers and officers; so there is already a lot of understanding in how they operate to the point where (As 27.01.19 proved) we can attack them in broad daylight and brand them a humiliating defeat
The world isn't so superstitious, but our enemy is going down that path, putting lemons and chillies on its fighter jets. Thankfully, our Armed Forces are far more practical and don't pull out the juntari to schedule operations.

In fact there were rumors that the February 27th air strikes were chosen precisely because of astrological reasons. Not being in a state of war and with prevailing unfavorable weather conditions a professional Air Operations Commander would normally have postponed the air strike by 24 hours when clear weather was predicted. The target was static and not running away.
All astrologers had predicted the last week of February as the best dasha or whatever for an airstrike . All conjecture but it is possible the PAF had monitored the astrologers and had a rough idea when the strike was going to come.

Again, knowing Hindi, monitoring astrological sites and reading an editorial in the Rashtriya Jagaran can be very advantageous.
Example:
During World War 2 the U.K. used to run a fake German radio station which while claiming to be patriotic was actually spreading rumors.
Small things count. The radio ran a report on patriotic Germans to use their dresses sparingly as clothes rationing was likely.
A paper in a small suburban town reported a riot when consumers brawled with each other at a garments store trying to buy up all the clothes thinking there was going to be clothes rationing. Even the tightly controlled German Press had leaks. The paper was monitored by U.K. who now knew their propaganda was working. The U.K. used every German language resource available hiring Flemish, Dutch, Austrian, Swiss German speakers, and persons from the German colonies in Africa. Most important of all were the Jewish diaspora who spoke German .
Germany had its English speaking propagandists too led by William Joyce "Lord Haw Haw" who went on air each evening to address the British citizens. But the German efforts were nowhere close in effectiveness as the British propaganda offensive. Britain's language assets were simpy too enormous for Germany too counter.
An Axiom:
Fascism repels diversity and democracy attracts diversity, A diverse, but patriotic population always wins.

Today we must reflect on the long struggle ahead. A struggle that is to be fought on every front ; not just on the LOC with 105 mm shells.
We have to fight the enemy in the virtual space, on the digital media, in air waves and the TV channels. We can add Churchill's favorite line (modified) to the above:
"we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight ...we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our (land), whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender,"
 
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masterchief_mirza

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It's a good idea overall. At the bare minimum, it will permit trained operatives to infiltrate sanghee organisations and attempt to disrupt them. This is classic old fashioned espionage and remains within the offensive arsenal of any ambitious nation state that needs to punch above its weight to survive. Israel is the most obvious example of such tactics being deployed in the field regularly. They have run riot throughout Iran and Arab nations by firstly and foremost mastering their languages.
 

Baibars_1260

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It's a good idea overall. At the bare minimum, it will permit trained operatives to infiltrate sanghee organisations and attempt to disrupt them. This is classic old fashioned espionage and remains within the offensive arsenal of any ambitious nation state that needs to punch above its weight to survive. Israel is the most obvious example of such tactics being deployed in the field regularly. They have run riot throughout Iran and Arab nations by firstly and foremost mastering their languages.
It is the soft power that is devastating. See below.

I had thought that the All India Radio Urdu service once aimed exclusively at Pakistan, over FM, Short-Wave, and MW radio had shut down, due to effective Pakistani jamming. The station had been functional for almost 70 years.

But now a digital streaming App has been launched :


The enemy never gives up.
 

Silverblaze

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It is the soft power that is devastating. See below.

I had thought that the All India Radio Urdu service once aimed exclusively at Pakistan, over FM, Short-Wave, and MW radio had shut down, due to effective Pakistani jamming. The station had been functional for almost 70 years.

But now a digital streaming App has been launched :


The enemy never gives up.

Always a pleasure reading your posts.

In short you capture the gist of one of the aspects of Chanakya's arthashastra. It is vital that Pakistan understands the mentality to formulate a counter strategy. From astrologers to actors from ascetics to sanitation workers, everyone can be an asset. India showed this in 71.

Sadly, there is too much of an ego issue here. I remember mentioning how important it is to understand and read Chanakya's principles. Quite a few members ridiculed the suggestion.

There is a reason that a great muslim personality told us that " Ilm momin ki gumshuda miras hai, jahan se miley lay lo".

Half of our country was taken away from us, Siachen was taken, immense damage has been done to us in this war on terror. Hindu occupied kashmir has been demographically changed in front of us, but we are content with liberating Afghanistan in the 1980s with the entire western world on our side.

Anyways, point is hindutvadis are immensely strategic and their innate hatred for muslims and Pakistan compels them to pin prick Pakistan and in the process they do make mistakes. It is Pakistan's foremost duty to oblige.

India today offers a great opportunity to exploit it with China on their backs, but sadly, I dont see Pakistani leaders capable enough to galvanize state institutions to take advantage of it. The idea seems to be to just follow China and we shall prevail. Hope China leaves india a million times more mutilated than Taimur left delhi.
 

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