• Saturday, December 7, 2019

Hatf-VIII Ra'ad II (ALCM) | Updates, News & Discussion

Discussion in 'Pakistan Strategic Forces' started by WarFariX, Mar 23, 2017.

  1. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,741
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2015
    Ratings:
    +6 / 6,816 / -0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    well either the kh-55 or the tomahawk have differant rear control surfaces designs thats the biggest give away. as for the ther rest then yeah its the same among other cruise missiles, long round, got folding wings, and has a turbine engine in it. if you put all this together then you have basically described every other missiles in this class
    kh-55 mdcn, tomahawk, ch-10 even the nirbhay.
     
  2. amardeep mishra

    amardeep mishra FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,308
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Ratings:
    +27 / 2,541 / -2
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Hi dear @The Deterrent
    I really do not think memes and smilies are needed in a serious discussions. It would be great if we can avoid it here. Instead of getting riled up, kindly prove your point based on facts and established literature-- but I know you can not prove-- there is a difference between "proving" and "speculating". I am unfortunately not much into the latter.
    As for the Babur, there are a plethora of literature available on the origins and development. Please lets not tread that path or else it will very easily turn into mud-slinging competition between two groups who I am sure would have never worked on any aerial vehicle in any capacity.
    btw, do you really know what it takes to design a cruise missile? Does pakistan even have a certifying agency to certify the hardware and software for cruise missiles?
    It is a fact--if you care to go through various American publications-- that a lot of KH-55 were indeed transferred to China in early 90s and also couple of un-exploded tomhawks(via pakistan in early 2000s). Now once you have a physical model-- you can create your own similar model and pass it through numerous wind tunnel tests at various AoAs, Side slip angles etc etc to create a matrix of data(Various Aerodynamic Coefficients). Various curve fitting techniques are then brought to bear to make out a relationship between aerodynamic coefficients and variables like alpha, beta, elevator deflection, rudder deflection, roll rates etc etc. Once you have these relationships, you can then linearize your model, about lets say level flight condition and then design a simple linear control. I am not sure if pakistan has even once passed the Babur through wind tunnel tests etc.
    You would be guessing, as to why one can not use traditional off the shelf autopilots such as APM or PX4,right? Well they simply do not meet the stringent mil requirements. For a cruise missile you would have to design your own control and integrate it with a mission planner. The hardware and software should both adhere to mil requirements.

    PS- Kindly note, I do not quote any Indian source just to make it neutral. All of my observations are based on either American or European sources. Also note I am not claiming that pakistan did nothing, Pakistan did infact work out ababeel almost entirely on their own-- which is a commendable job, although in cruise missiles, I do believe that it was China which had active help in Babur and South Africa that helped in Ra'ad.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  3. Ch abdullah

    Ch abdullah FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    12
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Ratings:
    +0 / 4 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    the pakistan has deveopled MIRVs named ABABEEL for your kind information

    your can read english fluently which is other country national languaage but not yours country national language this is not sad it is shameful
     
  4. Arsalan

    Arsalan MODERATOR

    Messages:
    17,617
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Ratings:
    +56 / 21,433 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Hi,
    Ever tried explaing this to @Guru_Dutt or @CalmDown@all_Dude ? :P

    Yet you go on to write all this:
    What else all this is if not speculations? You are assuming things, talking about possibilities and consider all that to be fact at the end? THIS is SPECULATION sir!
    A few fancy aerodynamic terms in there wont change the fact.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  5. v9s

    v9s FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,241
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,290 / -2
    Haha..you think people take you seriously!
     
  6. CalmDown@all_Dude

    CalmDown@all_Dude FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2017
    Ratings:
    +0 / 46 / -1
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    Virgin Islands, U.S.
    Well He said in a serious topic :rofl:
    And i am never serious on any topic:azn:
    :guns::cheesy:

    Sir
    Its always speculation that lead to its specification :coffee:
    Further their isn't any credibility of it being an indigenous system or if custom made as then we could actually go through its specifications we could pin point its true facts the same way one gets about a plane through its rcs engine ;speed ;endurance ;payload capacity ;or mass as a matter of fact we all are fed what they want us to when their isn't any specification :close_tema:
    such as the Kn of thrust those turbofan produce when fired and at what point do these navigational support start mid ;initial etc
    :guns::cheesy:
     
  7. Arsalan

    Arsalan MODERATOR

    Messages:
    17,617
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Ratings:
    +56 / 21,433 / -1
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan

    You want to try now @amardeep mishra ???
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  8. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,741
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2015
    Ratings:
    +6 / 6,816 / -0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    im quiet enjoying the ping pong match between @deterant and @amardeep mishra

    on one them is sane and the other guy is asking for evidence, this isn't gonna end well

    @deterant you should go on the offensive and ask for proof of origin on the nirbhay to spice things up a bit, please.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  9. Sameer25

    Sameer25 FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    136
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Ratings:
    +0 / 26 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United States
    well i know about ababeel but i was saying that usually they start new type of missiles as non-MIRVs just single warhead. i meant that i hope the first taimur missile is MIRV to begin with.
    the reason why i cant read urdu fluently is because when i was in pakistan i went to english medum private schools and they focused on english more than urdu, i can read it but i have to sound each word out. i moved to the US when i was 11 so i lost what progress i made
     
  10. amardeep mishra

    amardeep mishra FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,308
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Ratings:
    +27 / 2,541 / -2
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Hi @Arsalan
    No, that is not speculation-- that is discussing based on "published American literature". I am sure those who published such reports had much more intelligence inputs than you or I. Also, I've worked on couple of things(still do!) and have research paper in AIAA(American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics), so I guess I know what it takes to design systems like this. Whatever I wrote above has been published by people who are NOT Indian!

    You see, I am afraid you think, just because that poster is an Indian, I will go soft on him? I believe smilies or memes should not be allowed in serious technical discussions regardless of the nationality of the poster!

    Yeah sure @Blue Marlin , ask whatever you wish to ask! DO not worry, I will write an elaborate reply on Nirbhay, if that is what you seek! There is a reason why it is taking time!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  11. CalmDown@all_Dude

    CalmDown@all_Dude FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2017
    Ratings:
    +0 / 46 / -1
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    Virgin Islands, U.S.
    Well sir
    their i didn't wanted to make fun but on a serious note its true when one need to learn one need has to leave the ignorance of enjoyment to devote time for actual learning .
    :guns::cheesy:
     
  12. Ch abdullah

    Ch abdullah FULL MEMBER

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    12
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Ratings:
    +0 / 4 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    We are living in saudi arabia from starting my father here is a constructor but thy not allow us to forget our country culture or anything related to our counry . I was also went english medium school but i not lose grip on my national language but bro you have to get grip on it.
     
  13. Blue Marlin

    Blue Marlin SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    6,741
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2015
    Ratings:
    +6 / 6,816 / -0
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    i could have sword many useres here have stated multiple time that pakistan wont release technical info on their missiles. even the chinese, yanks, french, the only thing you'd find is soviet memoirs from scientists.

    i look forward to your replay in regards to the origin of the nirbhay, dont forget to include the russain mt36 engine and other components.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  14. Mahmood-ur-Rehman

    Mahmood-ur-Rehman FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    629
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2016
    Ratings:
    +1 / 437 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Why are you so worried accept the realities.
     
  15. The Deterrent

    The Deterrent PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

    Messages:
    3,174
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Ratings:
    +38 / 6,273 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    SERIOUS discussion? Let me think, who here would be interested in having a 'serious' discussion with a seemingly educated (dare I say 'proficient in scientific methodology') person...who thinks that Pakistan would fake an underwater cruise missile launch.

    Not me.

    [​IMG]