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Has KSA chosen a side?

Pakistansdefender

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Frankly to halt cpec and other american agenda. To stay quiet and let india rise. The two american demands through saudis. With saudis against us in fatf.
From 2 years they are unable to let us have a single meeting on kashmir.
Did not suport us in fatf.
And then when we started cpec again, pulled of moneg on american insistence.
There is no need to be angry on fm statement. He never said anything wrong.

From last 1 year we are unable to call a single session of oic.
3 closed door sessions happemed in unga. But no oic.
And after that arm twisting by not allowing us, to go to kualalumpur. By stoping imran khan to call modi hitler at unga. And when he did, they call back the plane.
That how they control past pakistani pms.


They dong understand the difference between friendhsip and servant.
We are not going against saudi arabia in any way.
We are still not friends with iran. We are not doing anything against saudia.
And to call of money because america is anti cpec.
At this stage pakistan should concentrate on turkey and china as stretegic partners and increase trade relations with all super powers p5 countries. Would find a reliable partner soon.
Would it be a fair assessment to claim that KSA is pulling its support on Kashmir due to US insistence? The US is after all the main sponsor of Hindustan and has a lot of influence over KSA. The Saudi kingdom is essentially relying for its existence on US support. Has the US used its leverage to pressure Pakistan behind the scene and shore up its lackey India?

It is clear as daylight that KSA has favored India over Pakistan in the Kashmir conflict. Pakistan had to repay the 1 billion Saudi loan after Pakistan began insisting that Saudi Arabia play its role to garner support from the Islamic world on the Kashmir issue. As we know the loan was part of a wider package offered initially when the PTI government came into power. Our foreign reserves were dwindling and the trade deficit was in an unhealthy shape. It is also true that in May this year the Saudis suspended the oil credit facility which was also part of a wider package. Pakistan had to repay the loan in full. Tensions were already visible and building up.

Saudi and Pak relations deteriorated rapidly, starting in February when Saudis blatantly turned down a request by Pakistan to hold a meeting of Foreign Ministers of the OIC. Pakistan did not back down and kept insisting to use the OIC platform to pressure India on the Kashmir issue. Very important to note, it was at this crucial moment that Saudi Arabia decided to call in the loan.

It is no secret to KSA how Kashmir is at the core of Pakistan India conflict. The Kashmir conflict far outweighs any other issue on Pak agenda. Both Pakistan and India have fought multiple wars over Kashmir. Yet, the Saudis have ignored to pay any heed to such sensitivity. Shah Mahmood Qureshi, has continued to openly demand that KSA convene an OIC council meeting. Such a blatant move on Pakistan's part is too unprecedented. Pakistan usually has a habit of keeping a lid on things. By calling out KSA in such an open manner, Pakistan has defied their silenced modus operandi. Recently in a TV interview, Qureshi went as far as demanding an OIC meeting. Failure to do so would result in a meeting between like-minded countries such as Iran and Turkey who stand with Pakistan on the Kashmir conflict.

Where does this leave the 20 billion MoU signed earlier between KSA and Pakistan? This includes the 10 billion oil refinery deal at Gwadar. Can we assume that KSA and Pak relations have now become hostage to Indian and US meddling? Is KSA unwilling to take Pakistan's side in the Kashmir conflict? Let alone the wider conflict between Pak and China versus Hindustan. Was the Saudi assistance package a carrot from the beginning to kowtow US and Saudi demands?

As mentioned earlier, Saudi Arabia is dependent on the US, which is also applying covert pressure on Saudi Arabia to stay away from Chinese initiatives. Has KSA chosen a side by taking such a bold stance? After all picking a side in the Kashmir conflict is something that won't be forgotten that easily. I am a sceptic, but would it be fair to conclude that economic ties between the Saudis and India are also a driving factor in change of heart towards Pakistan?

Whatever the experts say, KSA has been less forthcoming to extend support to Pakistan's stance on Kashmir. KSA has traditionally supported Pakistan primarily due to Pakistan's close proximity with rival Iran. Pakistan is also home to world's largest Shiite minority outside of Iran. Surely KSA has taken all these factors into account, yet chosen the Indian side. Should Pakistan change its stance even if KSA decided to placate Pakistan's demands in other less meaningful ways? We know that the Saudis will come back because papa America will play its behind-the-scenes dubious role. Papa America cannot live with or without Pakistan.

How should Pakistan navigate these troubled waters? Should it apply a similar unconventional response by going through with a meeting between like-minded countries? After all, there should be zero compromise on Kashmir. Is it time for Pakistan to leave OIC? Some might argue that this will leave a void for India to fill. Yet, the grouping of like-minded countries is not a terrible idea in these uncertain times. In a day and age where new grand alliances are order of the day, such a move would be rewarding in the longer term?
 

masterchief_mirza

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You are clearly influenced by the Arab narrative. You are willing to throw Pakistan and Kashmir under the bus to appease the Arab narrative.

It is clear as daylight that KSA has ulterior motives when it demands Pakistan not mention India at OIC. Tell me that I am lying and stop hiding behind mods. Have the guts to face me instead of tagging mods. You are not a baby. Say that I am lying and come with facts. I am all ears.
Bro just take it easy. Pakistanis are on the same side, believe it or not.

It is plausible that all the facts are not yet known. Like you, I am very sceptical that any assistance will come from the house of Saud. However, as another poster said, there is no point longing for the days of Shah Feisal because those days aren't coming back. If the Arab world cuts us loose, it's a blessing in disguise.

We shouldn't fear whatever course has been charted for us.
 

Dalit

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Bro just take it easy. Pakistanis are on the same side, believe it or not.

It is plausible that all the facts are not yet known. Like you, I am very sceptical that any assistance will come from the house of Saud. However, as another poster said, there is no point longing for the days of Shah Feisal because those days aren't coming back. If the Arab world cuts us loose, it's a blessing in disguise.

We shouldn't fear whatever course has been charted for us.

Not all of them are. They are irked when you tell the truth. They cannot control themselves. They accuse you of peddling agendas. You know why? Simply because our own personal interests are more sacred than Pakistan. It is nothing, but the cold truth.

What else do we need to know after such a malicious attack? First the medal for Modi. Now an attack on Kashmir. It is enough. I am not falling for it. I am going to spell out the truth and facts as I see them. Call me that I am wrong. Don't tag mods and cry. Come with facts. Prove me that I am wrong.
 
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Max

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Saudi have their own complexes, the tiny Wahhabi sect think they are leaders of the Muslim world while nobody in their own family take them serious, they also claim Pakistan owe their nukes and everything to Sauds and Pakistan runs solely on Saudi aid (they confuse loans with aid). Like Sanghis they live in their own "Bollywood" (delusions).

You will find Saudi apologists to bring Yemen houthis, but this was all settled, MBS visited promised billions of dollars worth of investments but then we hear nothing.

As for topic, I completely agree whatever is happening is at behest of Yankee Zionists. They are pulling the strings and it's not that the Saudis don't have choice, they can too play both sides, but it seems they don't want to.
 

Dalit

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Frankly to halt cpec and other american agenda. To stay quiet and let india rise. The two american demands through saudis. With saudis against us in fatf.
From 2 years they are unable to let us have a single meeting on kashmir.
Did not suport us in fatf.
And then when we started cpec again, pulled of moneg on american insistence.
There is no need to be angry on fm statement. He never said anything wrong.

From last 1 year we are unable to call a single session of oic.
3 closed door sessions happemed in unga. But no oic.
And after that arm twisting by not allowing us, to go to kualalumpur. By stoping imran khan to call modi hitler at unga. And when he did, they call back the plane.
That how they control past pakistani pms.


They dong understand the difference between friendhsip and servant.
We are not going against saudi arabia in any way.
We are still not friends with iran. We are not doing anything against saudia.
And to call of money because america is anti cpec.
At this stage pakistan should concentrate on turkey and china as stretegic partners and increase trade relations with all super powers p5 countries. Would find a reliable partner soon.

Absolutely. This is nothing, but the truth. Why should we hide these cold truths? Why should we pretend that everything is okay? It is not okay.
 

LeGenD

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WE can reach out to different countries to endorse [our] Kashmir-related cause in official capacity, but it must be understood that some will reciprocate and others will not. Therefore, Pakistani foreign policy should not be contingent upon this factor [alone].

Perhaps KSA have 'reservations' which should be understood and respected.

KSA have supported Pakistan in difficult times - every Pakistani should be mindful of this history to say the least.

My 2 cents.
 

Dalit

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Saudi have their own complexes, the tiny Wahhabi sect think they are leaders of the Muslim world while nobody in their own family take them serious, they also claim Pakistan owe their nukes and everything to Sauds and Pakistan runs solely on Saudi aid (they confuse loans with aid). Like Sanghis they live in their own "Bollywood" (delusions).

As for topic, I completely agree whatever is happening is at behest of Yankee Zionists. They are pulling the strings and it's not that the Saudis don't have choice, they can too play both sides, but it seems they don't want to.

Let's say it how it is. No political correctness. The Saudis have thrown the towel. Anyone who has a pair of eyes and doesn't have any allegiance towards the Saudis would condemn their behaviour. They have thrown the Palestinians under the bus. Would they care about Kashmir and Pakistan? Not even in the slightest. The Saudis under MBS only care about appeasment of the US and Israel. Is it a secret that Saudi Arabia had a rapprochement with Israel? They are all in sync. We need to wake up fast. Not give an inch on Kashmir. I am not buying the argument that KSA has their own interests that would make them undermine Kashmir and Palestine. That is treachery.
 

Blacklight

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Frankly to halt cpec and other american agenda. To stay quiet and let india rise. The two american demands through saudis. With saudis against us in fatf.
From 2 years they are unable to let us have a single meeting on kashmir.
Did not suport us in fatf.
And then when we started cpec again, pulled of moneg on american insistence.
There is no need to be angry on fm statement. He never said anything wrong.

From last 1 year we are unable to call a single session of oic.
3 closed door sessions happemed in unga. But no oic.
And after that arm twisting by not allowing us, to go to kualalumpur. By stoping imran khan to call modi hitler at unga. And when he did, they call back the plane.
That how they control past pakistani pms.


They dong understand the difference between friendhsip and servant.
We are not going against saudi arabia in any way.
We are still not friends with iran. We are not doing anything against saudia.
And to call of money because america is anti cpec.
At this stage pakistan should concentrate on turkey and china as stretegic partners and increase trade relations with all super powers p5 countries. Would find a reliable partner soon.

OIC is a waste of time, we should dump it. What we should instead focus on, is quietly building an export oriented economy, with WHOEVER is ready to support us.

This OIC nonsense is a SMQ's way of deflecting from our own terrible foreign polices. Lets assume that OIC issues a joint declaration denouncing INDIA. Will this result in IoK becoming Pakistani Kashmir? No.

So why are we even discussing this, and not asking SMQ, why hasn't he gotten 3 or 4 countries, who have the pockets to build our strategic and financial reserves, to back us, and taken the battle into the nazis back yard?

Anyone who thinks OIC, or UN is going to get us IoK is living in a fools paradise.

These 3-4 countries I mentioned - Everyone has a price, and Pakistan has a lot to offer, it is a give and take world. No free Lunches!
 

PakFactor

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Time to break free for Pak....

It's the time to go back to the roots...

When Sultan Ghori ordered his top commander Kutubeddin Aybek to conquer Hindustan did he ask any desert tribal leaders for permission? For the best of the Muslims from the Hijaz had already migrated out to spread the Din!! Or, when Fatih Sultan Mehmet Han decided to conquer Istanbul did he have anything to ask from the Arab leaders then?? For those Arabs were about to be conquered by the Catholics to be turned into the Catholics! Sultan Selim put a stop to the westward expeditions to secure the Muslim heartlands....

That way you put it, is deep and true.
 

PAKISTANFOREVER

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Would it be a fair assessment to claim that KSA is pulling its support on Kashmir due to US insistence? The US is after all the main sponsor of Hindustan and has a lot of influence over KSA. The Saudi kingdom is essentially relying for its existence on US support. Has the US used its leverage to pressure Pakistan behind the scene and shore up its lackey India?

It is clear as daylight that KSA has favored India over Pakistan in the Kashmir conflict. Pakistan had to repay the 1 billion Saudi loan after Pakistan began insisting that Saudi Arabia play its role to garner support from the Islamic world on the Kashmir issue. As we know the loan was part of a wider package offered initially when the PTI government came into power. Our foreign reserves were dwindling and the trade deficit was in an unhealthy shape. It is also true that in May this year the Saudis suspended the oil credit facility which was also part of a wider package. Pakistan had to repay the loan in full. Tensions were already visible and building up.

Saudi and Pak relations deteriorated rapidly, starting in February when Saudis blatantly turned down a request by Pakistan to hold a meeting of Foreign Ministers of the OIC. Pakistan did not back down and kept insisting to use the OIC platform to pressure India on the Kashmir issue. Very important to note, it was at this crucial moment that Saudi Arabia decided to call in the loan.

It is no secret to KSA how Kashmir is at the core of Pakistan India conflict. The Kashmir conflict far outweighs any other issue on Pak agenda. Both Pakistan and India have fought multiple wars over Kashmir. Yet, the Saudis have ignored to pay any heed to such sensitivity. Shah Mahmood Qureshi, has continued to openly demand that KSA convene an OIC council meeting. Such a blatant move on Pakistan's part is too unprecedented. Pakistan usually has a habit of keeping a lid on things. By calling out KSA in such an open manner, Pakistan has defied their silenced modus operandi. Recently in a TV interview, Qureshi went as far as demanding an OIC meeting. Failure to do so would result in a meeting between like-minded countries such as Iran and Turkey who stand with Pakistan on the Kashmir conflict.

Where does this leave the 20 billion MoU signed earlier between KSA and Pakistan? This includes the 10 billion oil refinery deal at Gwadar. Can we assume that KSA and Pak relations have now become hostage to Indian and US meddling? Is KSA unwilling to take Pakistan's side in the Kashmir conflict? Let alone the wider conflict between Pak and China versus Hindustan. Was the Saudi assistance package a carrot from the beginning to kowtow US and Saudi demands?

As mentioned earlier, Saudi Arabia is dependent on the US, which is also applying covert pressure on Saudi Arabia to stay away from Chinese initiatives. Has KSA chosen a side by taking such a bold stance? After all picking a side in the Kashmir conflict is something that won't be forgotten that easily. I am a sceptic, but would it be fair to conclude that economic ties between the Saudis and India are also a driving factor in change of heart towards Pakistan?

Whatever the experts say, KSA has been less forthcoming to extend support to Pakistan's stance on Kashmir. KSA has traditionally supported Pakistan primarily due to Pakistan's close proximity with rival Iran. Pakistan is also home to world's largest Shiite minority outside of Iran. Surely KSA has taken all these factors into account, yet chosen the Indian side. Should Pakistan change its stance even if KSA decided to placate Pakistan's demands in other less meaningful ways? We know that the Saudis will come back because papa America will play its behind-the-scenes dubious role. Papa America cannot live with or without Pakistan.

How should Pakistan navigate these troubled waters? Should it apply a similar unconventional response by going through with a meeting between like-minded countries? After all, there should be zero compromise on Kashmir. Is it time for Pakistan to leave OIC? Some might argue that this will leave a void for India to fill. Yet, the grouping of like-minded countries is not a terrible idea in these uncertain times. In a day and age where new grand alliances are order of the day, such a move would be rewarding in the longer term?





At the end of the day, the Saudis are completely controlled by america. They do exactly what the americans tell them to do. The Americans are against Pakistan and CPEC so by default the Saudis will also be against us and CPEC too. That is the reality. We need to quickly move away from Saudi Arabia and firmly link ourselves with China, Turkey and possibly Iran as well. The Saudis are pro-indian too.
 

PakSword

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Not all of them are. They are irked when you tell the truth. They cannot control themselves. They accuse you of peddling agendas. You know why? Simply because our own personal interests are more sacred than Pakistan. It is nothing, but the cold truth.

What else do we need to know after such a malicious attack? First the medal for Modi. Now an attack on Kashmir. It is enough. I am not falling for it. I am going to spell out the truth and facts as I see them. Call me that I am wrong. Don't tag mods and cry. Come with facts. Prove me that I am wrong.
Bro, let the clouds get cleared. Pakistan's and GCC's relationship is very deep and very old. There are ups and downs always when the relationship is deep enough.

It's not the time to imitate India and make foes all around us. We need all our friends on our side when the time comes.

The situation is extremely complicated in middle east. In the equation, we have Turkey, Syria, Iran, Qatar, KSA and UAE.. wars are going on in Libya where our friends are on the opposite sides fighting each other. Our situation is that we can't openly side with one party in any of the current conflicts.

You know, Turkey expects us to counter China on Uighyur issue, similarly, KSA wants us completely on its side when it comes to Qatar or Turkey.. it is complicated, believe me. Just wait.. and pray that all the Muslims unite all around the world in our lifetimes.
 

Dalit

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At the end of the day, the Saudis are completely controlled by america. They do exactly what the americans tell them to do. The Americans are against Pakistan and CPEC so by default the Saudis will also be against us and CPEC too. That is the reality. We need to quickly move away from Saudi Arabia and firmly link ourselves with China, Turkey and possibly Iran as well. The Saudis are pro-indian too.

Time to call a spade a spade. When you observe something with your senses you must not deny the inevitable. It is happening and it is happening for a reason.

Like I said, KSA has chosen a side and so have we.
 
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