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Hangor Class Submarine Project | Updates & Discussions

FuturePAF

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i am going to be way off, but I hope there is one to 3 VL tubes for MIRV based SLBMs.
Perhaps a design with 4 VL tubes would be a better option at modest increase in cost.

three longer range (range somewhere between the JL-1A and the JL-2) missiles with MIRVs and 1 tube housing 3 short range Single warhead missiles in the 1000 km range will give flexible second strike options to the SPD. Only 6 missiles with a total of 9 warheads per submarine maybe a minimally credible force.

Even a fleet of just of 3 conventionally powered submarines with this kind of firepower would tie up Indian planners and maintain the credible deterrence doctrine with a robust leg of the triad in anticipation of their ASW capabilities.
 
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maverick1977

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Perhaps a design with 4 VL tubes would be a better option at modest increase in cost.

three longer range (range somewhere between the JL-1A and the JL-2) missiles with MIRVs and 1 tube housing 3 short range Single warhead missiles in the 1000 km range will give flexible second strike options to the SPD. Only 6 missiles with a total of 9 warheads per submarine maybe a minimally credible force.

Even a fleet of fleet of 3 conventionally powered submarines with this kind of firepower would tie up Indian planners and maintain the credible deterrence doctrine with a robust leg of the triad in anticipation of their ASW capabilities.

its a wait and see, the first boomer shoukd br delivered at the end of 2022?
 

GriffinsRule

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Tesla battery advancements recently announced may lead to significant advancement in applications like AIP Submarines. If these submarines can utilize a pump-jet efficiently in a diesel electric AIP submarine, it would narrow the gap between a conventionally powered submarine and a nuclear powered submarine.


More details on the chemistry and design; AIP would probably made with the Nickel+Manganese option at 12:10

There is a reason why no one can compete with American engineering once they set their minds towards accomplishing something. Have a vision and then go after it, but dont stop at the initial success but keep on improving it further and further till no one can compete with you on equal terms.
 

FuturePAF

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There is a reason why no one can compete with American engineering once they set their minds towards accomplishing something. Have a vision and then go after it, but dont stop at the initial success but keep on improving it further and further till no one can compete with you on equal terms.
It not only about success, but how a culture deals with and processes failure. In Asian cultures, failure is seen as disgraceful, sometimes to the point of discouraging someone trying again. The fear of failure make many shy of even trying.

For those that are sucessful, they may not be able to fully benefit from the fruits of their innovation.

Patent law is strong in the US, and along with production capabilities, patents and trademarks; intellectual property in general, is a huge party of why many companies can attract the investment to grow when they have a great idea.

Couple all of this with workers giving large pieces of their earnings to invest into these companies in the form of 401Ks, and you have fertile ground for new innovations to grow exponentially and dominate whole industries.

America provides the right environment for entrepreneurs and it shows in its leading companies, which were no where to be found even a few decades ago.
 

ARMalik

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Well the way things are going with these Submarines, all of us will turn 100 years old men before these subs are delivered to Pakistan sometimes next century!! :lol: :lol: .. By that time, hopefully Mankind would have developed Starships and colonized a few planets ! :lol:
 

Yasser76

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Well the way things are going with these Submarines, all of us will turn 100 years old men before these subs are delivered to Pakistan sometimes next century!! :lol: :lol: .. By that time, hopefully Mankind would have developed Starships and colonized a few planets ! :lol:
I guess some perspective may not hurt here. Pakistan signed Hangor deal in 2015, just 5 years ago.

Agosta 90B deal was signed in 1992 and first sub delivered 7 years later in 1999.


To put it further perspective

IN signed Scorpene deal in 2005, and only got their first sub in 2018. 13 years later.

RAN Collins class ordered in 1987 and entered service in 1996

Malaysia ordered Scorpene in 2001, first boat in service 2009

First Israeli Dolphin class was ordered in 1989 and commissioned on 1999.
 

R Wing

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It not only about success, but how a culture deals with and processes failure. In Asian cultures, failure is seen as disgraceful, sometimes to the point of discouraging someone trying again. The fear of failure make many shy of even trying.

For those that are sucessful, they may not be able to fully benefit from the fruits of their innovation.

Patent law is strong in the US, and along with production capabilities, patents and trademarks; intellectual property in general, is a huge party of why many companies can attract the investment to grow when they have a great idea.

Couple all of this with workers giving large pieces of their earnings to invest into these companies in the form of 401Ks, and you have fertile ground for new innovations to grow exponentially and dominate whole industries.

America provides the right environment for entrepreneurs and it shows in its leading companies, which were no where to be found even a few decades ago.
Absolutely agree.
 

Yasser76

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Well the way things are going with these Submarines, all of us will turn 100 years old men before these subs are delivered to Pakistan sometimes next century!! :lol: :lol: .. By that time, hopefully Mankind would have developed Starships and colonized a few planets ! :lol:
You got your answer

Pakistan’s New Type-039B AIP Submarines: Image Shows Shipyard Expansion


The Pakistan Navy's expansion is gearing up in Karachi. Major enhancements are evident at a shipyard, where a new construction hall and a dry dock greatly increase capacity. Although details are scarce, it seems likely that the local construction of Chinese-designed AIP (Air Independent Power) submarines will take place there.

H I Sutton 06 Oct 2020

The eight Type-039B ‘Hangor Class’ submarines will be a major boost to the Pakistan Navy. They will more than double the size of the Pakistan Navy’s submarine fleet.

The new submarines are variant of the Chinese Navy’s Type-039A Yuan Class. Construction will be split between the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) and Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works (KSEW) in Karachi. KSEW previously participated in local construction of Pakistan’s French designed Agosta class submarines.

The construction site in Karachi may put to rest previous reports that the subs would be built in Ormara. In 2016 it was reported that the local submarine construction would occur at a new Submarine Rebuild Complex (SRC) being built there. No significant construction work is evident at Ormara.

The new construction hall and dry dock are at the southern end of KSEW’s Karachi shipyard site. Footings for the halls was first observed in 2015. The twin-lane halls have slowly taken shape since then. The outer shell appears largely complete. Under their roof there should be enough room to build two submarines in parallel.

Work on the aligned dry dock appears to have started in 2016. It is a Norwegian designed Syncrolift ship-lift type built out over the water. Manufacture of the sections likely took place in China. The dry dock is 126m (415 ft) long and 32m (105 ft) across and has a lifting capacity of 7,881 tons. This is large enough for the new submarines, and would allow frigate sized warships and larger submarines in future.

Based on current information the first of the new submarines, built in China, is expected to be delivered in 2022. Local construction of the last four hulls will last through to 2028. The acquisition from China is part of a trend. Several major Pakistan Navy warship programs have gone to China in recent years. And the Pakistan Navy and Chinese Navy already cooperate closely, included close exercises involving Chinese warships and Pakistan Navy submarines.

The construction halls will be conveniently close to the Pakistan Navy’s main submarine berths. They are also just north of the SSGNs (Special Service Group (Navy)) base at PNS Iqbal. This is where the Pakistan Navy’s X-Craft midget submarine program is based. It seems logical that any local construction of midget submarines will also take place at the new site.

The technology transfer will benefit KSEW. Their Stirling-based AIP (Air Independent Power/Propulsion) technology is different from the French MESMA system installed on Pakistan’s Agosta-90B type boats. Pakistan remains the only country to adopt the MESMA system. Type-039B submarines are a relatively conservative design however.
The Agosta-90B submarine was moored centrally among the Chinese warships. H I SUTTON. INCLUDES MATERIAL © PLANETSCOPE | ACQUIRED THROUGH SHADOWBREAK INTL
The Type-039B submarines are likely to combine Chinese systems and weapons with Pakistani systems. Local weapons are expected to include the nuclear-capable Babur cruise missile. Armed with these the boats will form part of Pakistan’s nuclear deterrent. How this deterrence role will be reconciled with typical attack submarine duties remains unclear.


 

ARMalik

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You got your answer

Pakistan’s New Type-039B AIP Submarines: Image Shows Shipyard Expansion


The Pakistan Navy's expansion is gearing up in Karachi. Major enhancements are evident at a shipyard, where a new construction hall and a dry dock greatly increase capacity. Although details are scarce, it seems likely that the local construction of Chinese-designed AIP (Air Independent Power) submarines will take place there.

H I Sutton 06 Oct 2020

The eight Type-039B ‘Hangor Class’ submarines will be a major boost to the Pakistan Navy. They will more than double the size of the Pakistan Navy’s submarine fleet.

The new submarines are variant of the Chinese Navy’s Type-039A Yuan Class. Construction will be split between the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) and Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works (KSEW) in Karachi. KSEW previously participated in local construction of Pakistan’s French designed Agosta class submarines.

The construction site in Karachi may put to rest previous reports that the subs would be built in Ormara. In 2016 it was reported that the local submarine construction would occur at a new Submarine Rebuild Complex (SRC) being built there. No significant construction work is evident at Ormara.

The new construction hall and dry dock are at the southern end of KSEW’s Karachi shipyard site. Footings for the halls was first observed in 2015. The twin-lane halls have slowly taken shape since then. The outer shell appears largely complete. Under their roof there should be enough room to build two submarines in parallel.

Work on the aligned dry dock appears to have started in 2016. It is a Norwegian designed Syncrolift ship-lift type built out over the water. Manufacture of the sections likely took place in China. The dry dock is 126m (415 ft) long and 32m (105 ft) across and has a lifting capacity of 7,881 tons. This is large enough for the new submarines, and would allow frigate sized warships and larger submarines in future.

Based on current information the first of the new submarines, built in China, is expected to be delivered in 2022. Local construction of the last four hulls will last through to 2028. The acquisition from China is part of a trend. Several major Pakistan Navy warship programs have gone to China in recent years. And the Pakistan Navy and Chinese Navy already cooperate closely, included close exercises involving Chinese warships and Pakistan Navy submarines.

The construction halls will be conveniently close to the Pakistan Navy’s main submarine berths. They are also just north of the SSGNs (Special Service Group (Navy)) base at PNS Iqbal. This is where the Pakistan Navy’s X-Craft midget submarine program is based. It seems logical that any local construction of midget submarines will also take place at the new site.

The technology transfer will benefit KSEW. Their Stirling-based AIP (Air Independent Power/Propulsion) technology is different from the French MESMA system installed on Pakistan’s Agosta-90B type boats. Pakistan remains the only country to adopt the MESMA system. Type-039B submarines are a relatively conservative design however.
The Agosta-90B submarine was moored centrally among the Chinese warships. H I SUTTON. INCLUDES MATERIAL © PLANETSCOPE | ACQUIRED THROUGH SHADOWBREAK INTL
The Type-039B submarines are likely to combine Chinese systems and weapons with Pakistani systems. Local weapons are expected to include the nuclear-capable Babur cruise missile. Armed with these the boats will form part of Pakistan’s nuclear deterrent. How this deterrence role will be reconciled with typical attack submarine duties remains unclear.


Thanks mate, very much appreciated.
 

AMRAAM

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So today, in the farewell speech of Admiral Zafar Mahmood Abbasi, he mentioned that 4 submarines are being built in China while 4 are in Pakistan and will be inducted in the coming years.

The disappointing part was that there was no mention of an induction year. It can linger on for years. Maybe in 2030.
 

Kabotar

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So today, in the farewell speech of Admiral Zafar Mahmood Abbasi, he mentioned that 4 submarines are being built in China while 4 are in Pakistan and will be inducted in the coming years.

The disappointing part was that there was no mention of an induction year. It can linger on for years. Maybe in 2030.
Delivery timeline was disclosed when the deal was signed. First sub in 2022 last sub in 2028.
 

MIRauf

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So today, in the farewell speech of Admiral Zafar Mahmood Abbasi, he mentioned that 4 submarines are being built in China while 4 are in Pakistan and will be inducted in the coming years.

The disappointing part was that there was no mention of an induction year. It can linger on for years. Maybe in 2030.
It takes quite a bit of time to churn out able body crew for Ship and or Subs. You will need multiple sets of crew as well, the Yuan A-39 will help you churn those out but still it will take time. It's one thing to have the units and its another to be able to operate and utilize them to max capabilities. So don't be too upset if its 2030 and the final 8th is getting fully operational.
 

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