• Friday, July 19, 2019

Hamza Abbasi tells why presidential system was required

Discussion in 'Political Videos' started by Ali_kayani_ca, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. Ali_kayani_ca

    Ali_kayani_ca FULL MEMBER

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    Interesting
     
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  2. 1Paki$tani

    1Paki$tani FULL MEMBER

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    What is the presidential system they want? Something on the line of USA or ARABS?

    If its USA than what is the difference between current and USA type? At end of the day the parliament (Congress for USA) has significant power.

    If it is ARAB system than in simple terms were are talking about dictatorship with no check and balances. I believe many are looking at this system as they are frustrated with bureaucracy and need quick fix without having to reply on parliament to pass law. But in my opinion this is dumb and short sighted as this systems is open to abuse.
     
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  3. Ali_kayani_ca

    Ali_kayani_ca FULL MEMBER

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    As he mentioned there has to be a debate on it. Neither the USA or Arabs system the line is somewhere in the middle that suits the requirement of Pakistan. A system with checks and balance but i guess the current problem is to fix the check and balance.
     
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  4. Simurgh

    Simurgh FULL MEMBER

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    Pakistan should develop its own indigenous presidential system, in the outside world France has the best form of presidential system.
     
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  5. 544_delta

    544_delta FULL MEMBER

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    will we ever stop with the experiments? havent we followed whimsical solutions before? look where that got us. atleast with a parliamentary system you have a feedback system which you can utilise to filter out the trash. the power isn't absolute and doesnt rest with any single entity and there are watch dogs for making sure fair play is observed this is the best system for us BUT do we really have a parliamentary democracy? or do we have a controlled democracy which is just a sham concocted by the khakis? thats what we need to fix because thats what causes every system to fail. either we stay a banana republic or the khakis part with their unconstitutional powers.
     
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  6. Talwar e Pakistan

    Talwar e Pakistan SENIOR MEMBER

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    We need a much more centralized Government.
     
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  7. Enigma SIG

    Enigma SIG FULL MEMBER

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    We've had a parliamentary system; no feedback and the trash doesn't filter out.
    Power rests with the parliament and they fill the other governmental agencies with their nepotistic ideas.
    Watch dogs look out for the interests of the elite.

    A system that has failed to deliver deserves to go into the dustbin of history.
     
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  8. 313ghazi

    313ghazi SENIOR MEMBER

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    We need centralised government with a leader with the power to actually implement change unilaterally. We need a strong independent judiciary to prevent anything illegal from happening and being done by the leadership. What we need less off is talk shop assemblies where every chor is striking deals and creating road blocks to force compromises for personal interests.
     
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  9. Kambojaric

    Kambojaric SENIOR MEMBER

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    Shortcut syndrome I call it. Extensive centralization cannot work in a heterogenous society like Pakistan. Supporters of military dictatorship/increased centralization/presidential system often give examples of South Korea, China, Japan etc. These are countries which are extremely or very much homogenous (i.e. one ethnic group speaking one language and following one culture dominates, much like European countries). In such societies the chance of internal schism is minimal as compared to heterogenous societies, where a member from one ethnic group behaving autocratically can become a symbol for "foreign oppression". I am thinking of the types of PPP or the whole East Pakistan debacle. We may laugh them (PPP and similar parties) off on this forum but the reality is their "ideology" does draw support especially when they lash out at "punjabi oppression".

    Indonesia, Malaysia are much better examples for us to follow. They too have flirted with dictatorships in the past but ultimately these dictatorships just like in the case of Pakistan failed for the same reason i.e. they are heterogenous societies where a multitude of peoples speaking various languages and following different cultures and religions live. Democracy is the least worst choice in such societies and realizing this the Indonesians and Malaysians have slowly but surely developed a decent democratic system. Unfortunately many Pakistanis are too hasty and want things to overnight become perfect. I know easier said than done for an individual like myself living outside the country but ultimately time is the only way democracys are perfected. You can either play the long game or constantly keep shuffling between being a dictatorship and a democracy.
     
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  10. 544_delta

    544_delta FULL MEMBER

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    when exactly have we had one free from khaki influence? dont regurgitate pseudo patriotic drivel of the junta to me. i talked about a system independent of outside influence. the one you are talking about is the brainchild of the fojis that serves their purposes by maligning and discrediting the civilian rule.
     
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  11. Enigma SIG

    Enigma SIG FULL MEMBER

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    The system will always be under influence; whether it is internal or external. Civilian's have discredited themselves as they prefer to keep the masses uneducated about their rights; keep a constitutional stranglehold on the economy and line their bank accounts with ill-gotten wealth.
    Khaki's always win because the civilians are too short-sighted to set the economy and law making straight to get us out of this quagmire.

    http://www.na.gov.pk/en/content.php?id=215

    Only 8 laws were passed from from 2014 to 2105. Only 66 laws passed in NA in 2018. Bloody civilians indeed.
     
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  12. 544_delta

    544_delta FULL MEMBER

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    civilians have discredited themselves? let see how that started, shall we?
    [​IMG]
    so fatima jinah was an indian agent and His excellency Field marshal general Ayub ( whom i might add was strongly not recommended by his CO for promotion beyond Major due to his cowardice on burmese front but installed himself as field marshall like a banana republic's dictator) was the bleeding heart with the cure for nation's woes?

    Is that the rhetoric you are trying to push here? because that modus operandi is seen repeatedly through out history during which we see that when the nation's support was with fatima jinnah, its mandate was stolen by khakis and given to ayub, when voters were with mujeeb, the khakis struck again and yahya gave the mandate to bhutto ( although they got a bloody nose in return for their troubles) , when the voters were with bhutto they stole the mandate and gave it to qomi itihaad, when voters were with benazir they stole it for nawaz shareef and when he was favored they stole it for imran khan. So your assertion really has no merit when even the founding fathers werent safe from the dirty tactics of the khakis.

    The oathbreakers and sellswords like yahya ayub sikander mirza zia hameed gul musharaf akhtar abdur rehman and the likes have created such a well oiled propaganda machine that now by default every politician is labelled a traitor and a rogue when we see that no civilian ever gave military bases to foreigners in exchange for dollars, no civilian ever decided to fight someone elses wars on our soils and no civilian ever started military conflicts with our enemies that we couldnt win.

    Its the greatest achievement of the khakis that despite losing every war and more than half a country, they have created a false image of honor when in reality the scoundrels have bled the country dry.
     
  13. Simurgh

    Simurgh FULL MEMBER

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    From which angle is a democratic presidential system any different from british origin prime minister system. From where does the notion of "dictatorship" comes in this discussion. It feels like you are equating presidential system with dictatorship. Do you really believe France, USA etc. which have presidential systems are under dictatorships?
     
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  14. airmarshal

    airmarshal SENIOR MEMBER

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    I think Imran wants to dissolve assembly. Bring in next PTI government with a larger majority and then change constitution to make it presidential. He is thinking in terms of the Khalifa of Islamic State of Medina.

    This system is corrupt. It feeds inefficiencies and the government has to reach compromises. This system has a capacity to create another villain like Zardari or Sharif. With effective check and balance, this current system can be fixed but indirect election of leader of house always will bring compromises and blackmail.

    Like Iran, people should elect their leader directly. The the leader could not be blackmailed.
     
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  15. 1Paki$tani

    1Paki$tani FULL MEMBER

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    This concept of presidential system and those advising Imran as playing a dangerous game. Imran might be frustrated but he needs to work within the system and make changes to improve it.

    He should call early election if he feels he is being strangled by coalition but at end of the day if he wins with better majority or even 2/3 majority still he should not try to change the system. Remember NS trying to become Ameer ul Momineen in late 90s.

    He should make desire changes to constitution such as abolishing 18th amendment and enshrining LG in constitution.

    However one fundamental change which he should make is to public service where this guarantee of employment be abolished and GOP should be free to sack any government servant if he or she is not performing to bringing about desired change. At this moment they are hardened by job guarantee. If they know that sword can fall on their head and they will lose their entitlements they will behave and bring improvement.
     
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