• Wednesday, November 21, 2018

Greek genocide of Turks

Discussion in 'Turkish Defence Forum' started by Axa-, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Axa-

    Axa- FULL MEMBER

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    British historian Arnold J. Toynbee wrote that there were organized atrocities since the Greek occupation of Smyrna on 15 May 1919. Toynbee also stated that he and his wife were witnesses to the atrocities perpetrated by Greeks in the Yalova, Gemlik, and Izmit areas and they not only obtained abundant material evidence in the shape of "burnt and plundered houses, recent corpses, and terror stricken survivors" but also witnessed robbery by Greek civilians and arsons by Greek soldiers in uniform in the act of perpetration.[85] Toynbee wrote that as soon as the Greek Army landed, they started committing atrocities against the Turkish civilians, as they "laid waste the fertile Maender (Meander) Valley", and forced thousands of Turks to take refuge outside the borders of the areas controlled by the Greeks.[86] Historian Taner Akçam noted that a British officer reported as follows:[87]


    "The National forces were established solely for the purpose of fighting the Greeks... The Turks are willing to remain under the control of any other state... There was not even an organized resistance at the time of the Greek occupation. Yet the Greeks are persisting in their oppression, and they have continued to burn villages, kill Turks and rape and kill women and young girls and throttle to death children."


    James Harbord, describing the first months of the occupation to the American Senate, wrote that[88] "The Greek troops and the local Greeks who had joined them in arms started a general massacre of the Mussulmen population in which the officials and Ottoman officers and soldiers as well as the peaceful inhabitants were indiscriminately put to death." [89] Harold Armstrong, a British officer who was a member of the Inter-Allied Commission, reported that as the Greeks pushed out from Smynra, they massacred and raped civilians, and burned and pillaged as they went.[90] Marjorie Housepian wrote that 4000 Smyrna Muslims were killed by Greek forces.[91] Johannes Kolmodin was a Swedish orientalist in Smyrna. He wrote in his letters that the Greek army had burned 250 Turkish villages.[92] In one village the Greek army demanded 500 gold liras to spare the town; however, after payment, the village was still sacked.[93]


    The Inter-Allied commission, consisting of British, French, American and Italian officers,[c] and the representative of the Geneva International Red Cross, M. Gehri, prepared two separate collaborative reports on their investigations in the Yalova-Gemlik Peninsula. These reports found that Greek forces committed systematic atrocities against the Turkish inhabitants.[94] And the commissioners mentioned the "burning and looting of Turkish villages", the "explosion of violence of Greeks and Armenians against the Turks", and "a systematic plan of destruction and extinction of the Moslem population".[95] In their report of the 23rd May 1921, the Inter-Allied commission stated as follows:[96]


    A distinct and regular method appears to have been followed in the destruction of villages, group by group, for the last two months... there is a systematic plan of destruction of Turkish villages and extinction of the Muslim population. This plan is being carried out by Greek and Armenian bands, which appear to operate under Greek instructions and sometimes even with the assistance of detachments of regular troops.
    The Inter-Allied commission also stated that the destruction of villages and the disappearance of the Muslim population might have as its objective to create in this region a political situation favourable to the Greek Government.[96]


    Arnold J. Toynbee wrote that they obtained convincing evidence that similar atrocities had been started in wide areas all over the remainder of the Greek-occupied territories since June 1921.[85] Toynbee argued that "the situation of the Turks in Smyrna City had become what could be called without exaggeration a 'reign of terror', it was to be inferred that their treatment in the country districts had grown worse in proportion."[97]


    Greek scorched-earth policy
    According to a number of sources, the retreating Greek army carried out a scorched-earth policy while fleeing from Anatolia during the final phase of the war.[98] Historian of the Middle East, Sydney Nettleton Fisher wrote that: "The Greek army in retreat pursued a burned-earth policy and committed every known outrage against defenceless Turkish villagers in its path."[98] Norman M. Naimark noted that "the Greek retreat was even more devastating for the local population than the occupation".[99]


    James Loder Park, the U.S. Vice-Consul in Constantinople at the time, who toured much of the devastated area immediately after the Greek evacuation, described the situation in the surrounding cities and towns of zmir he has seen, as follows:[100]


    Manisa... almost completely wiped out by fire... 10,300 houses, 15 mosques, 2 baths, 2,278 shops, 19 hotels, 26 villas... [destroyed]. Cassaba (present day Turgutlu) was a town of 40,000 souls, 3,000 of whom were non-Muslims. Of these 37,000 Turks only 6,000 could be accounted for among the living, while 1,000 Turks were known to have been shot or burned to death. Of the 2,000 buildings that constituted the city, only 200 remained standing. Ample testimony was available to the effect that the city was systematically destroyed by Greek soldiers, assisted by a number of Greek and Armenian civilians. Kerosene and gasoline were freely used to make the destruction more certain, rapid and complete.


    Alaehir, hand pumps were used to soak the walls of the buildings with Kerosene. As we examined the ruins of the city, we discovered a number of skulls and bones, charred and black, with remnants of hair and flesh clinging to them. Upon our insistence a number of graves having a fresh-made appearance were actually opened for us as we were fully satisfied that these bodies were not more than four weeks old. [the time of the Greek retreat through Alaehir]


    Consul Park concluded:[100]
    The destruction of the interior cities visited by our party was carried out by Greeks.


    The percentages of buildings destroyed in each of the last four cities referred to were: Manisa 90 percent, Cassaba (Turgutlu) 90 percent, Alaehir 70 percent, Salihli 65 percent.


    The burning of these cities was not desultory, nor intermittent, nor accidental, but well planned and thoroughly organized.


    There were many instances of physical violence, most of which was deliberate and wanton. Without complete figures, which were impossible to obtain, it may safely be surmised that 'atrocities' committed by retiring Greeks numbered well into thousands in the four cities under consideration. These consisted of all three of the usual type of such atrocities, namely murder, torture and rape.


    Kinross wrote, "Already most of the towns in its path were in ruins. One third of Ushak no longer existed. Alashehir was no more than a dark scorched cavity, defacing the hillside. Village after village had been reduced to an ash-heap. Out of the eighteen thousand buildings in the historic holy city of Manisa, only five hundred remained."[101]


    It is estimated some 3,000 lives had been lost in the burning of Alaehir alone.[102] In one of the examples of the Greek atrocities during the retreat, on 14 February 1922, in the Turkish village of Karatepe in Aydin Vilayeti, after being surrounded by the Greeks, all the inhabitants were put into the mosque, then the mosque was burned. The few who escaped fire were shot.[103] The Italian consul, M. Miazzi, reported that he had just visited a Turkish village, where Greeks had slaughtered some sixty women and children. This report was then corroborated by Captain Kocher, the French consul.[104]
     
  2. Deno

    Deno SENIOR MEMBER

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    There was no genocide in World War I and it always makes me shake my head in disappointment when I see Turks using the same tactics of Armenians and some Greeks, calling massacres and ethnic cleansings a genocide.

    Yes, Greek Army killed countles Turks and forced them out of their homes but we also did the same. People should stop playing the victim in historical evens which happened nearly a century ago. Putting Turkish nation who won against impossible odds in their independence war in a role of ''professional victim'' like Armenians and some Greeks do to their nations is disgraceful.

    Even though we are secular and even though we are a democratic country, we are still bound by the social values of East, more so in regards to our forefathers. Easterners don't show their pain like Westerners do and they definitly don't use their forefathers pain as a means to achive their goals. They put that pain deep inside of them, move on and won't allow that pain and hatred to pass on to next generations. Thats why Hemshins and Turks fought against invaders as one and now see themselves as one nation even after the evens of 1915. By making these people ''victims'' in their glorious struggle is an insult to their legacy.

    Sorry for the long reply and any grammar/spelling mistakes (if there are any). I am a little bit tipsy. :)
     
  3. Axa-

    Axa- FULL MEMBER

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    The thread was posted by a Greek person in another forum, my intention just to show our people most of them dont even know about it.
     
  4. T-123456

    T-123456 ELITE MEMBER

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    We are a proud nation and we should never play the victims role,in evry war there are victims but it made us very strong and independent.
    We earned the respect of the whole world.
    Which nation fought with mothers children grandmothers grandfathers to save the nation,made untold sacrifices and survived.
    Yes it is the Turkish nation!
     
  5. KingMamba

    KingMamba ELITE MEMBER

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    Drinking on the job? :whistle:

    Greeks always write funny stuff about Turks. They are just mad you guys ruled over them.
     
  6. madmusti

    madmusti BANNED

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    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2013
  7. Islamic faith&Secularism

    Islamic faith&Secularism SENIOR MEMBER

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    The op represents some information quated from a book or somthing like that, which means it holds credits and is based on a source...


    However, you are writing your personal thougt, but you sound like an expert without supplying any source to support your thougt; if so, first please explain the meaning of genocide; compare and differentiate it with massacres and etnic cleanisation(genocide); otherwise, do not stick your noes into anything you have no idea.


    Creten and Selanik are goog start for you to explain.

    ... and also where did Turkish Army kill the greeks? I am really furious; who made this person mod; and according to what is decided and made this person to get that title of mod!!! i cannot see any intellectual background, hictorical etc. in the post above, seriously what is special with this person to get such an important title?!

    Allahım böyle bir halt bilmeden ahkam kesenleri; hem de kendi ülkesinin çıkarlarını bilmiş bilmiş tavırlarla taca çıkaran inasanlardan bıktım, sözde aydınlar bir , bunlar iki..nedir bunlardan çektiğimiz, bir de arkalarını topluyoruz.
     
  8. ResurgentIran

    ResurgentIran SENIOR MEMBER

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    Today, the Greeks are commiting genocide to themselves!
    They are bankrupt welfare dependent nation (loans from EU). They have a shockingly low birth rate! The greek populaion is declining, and more immigrants coming into the country. Greek business being bought up by Turks, Germans etc. Selling their islands and a whole bunch of other stuff.

    Greek tragedy...