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Greece and USA sign Mutual Defence Agreement

Foinikas

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After the defense agreement with France inked just weeks ago, Greece is getting ready to sign an amendment to its defense deal with the US at the end of this week. It will mark the renewal of the Mutual Defense Cooperation Agreement (MDCA), first signed in 1990.

Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Dendias will travel to Washington on October 13-14 to participate in the third round of the Greece-US Strategic Dialogue. Along with his US counterpart Antony Blinken, he will sign the second amendment protocol to the MDCA.

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After a joint press conference, the signing of the second protocol and the amending of the MDCA will follow. According to reports, the agreement will include a stipulation that four additional US military base locations will be added, adjacent to the current four.

Those are the Yannouli Military Camp in Alexandroupolis, Souda Bay Naval Base in Crete, the firing range at Litohoro in Pieria, and the Georgoula Military Camp (near the Larisa airbase and the Army Air-Force base in Stefanovikio).


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Last year, Republican Sen. Ron Johnson said the US was making plans to leave the Incirlik air base in Turkey’s southern Adana province. It might be relocated to the Greek islands, he said.




 

FairAndUnbiased

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Turkey is getting squeezed. Currently it seems that the degree of US Turkey cooperation is strictly limited to NATO while US also has strong bilateral relations outside of NATO with countries like Greece. It is clear who is favored between Greece and Turkey.
 

Battlion25

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Turkey is getting squeezed. Currently it seems that the degree of US Turkey cooperation is strictly limited to NATO while US also has strong bilateral relations outside of NATO with countries like Greece. It is clear who is favored between Greece and Turkey.
Turkey doesn't feel squeezed here tho it has large reach in the area and what is behind it. The catch is that Greek itself is to insignficiant it is small country as per in numbers and everything it doesn't add anything to the occasion hence Turkey will always have greater importance than Greek because Turkey is argubably 2nd strongest NATO armed forces.

The greeks have been making alot of unnecessary noise lately while Turkey is busy elsewhere.. Turkey doesn't see anything of it's western border as one country but multiple countries into one entity of sort. Greece is just one tiny insignficiant country in a larger body.

But one thing I don't understand is the message behind this? This is where questions need to be asked?

are the Americans getting insecure about Greece being overrun by Turkey because if that was the case than this could become idiotic and diplomatic issue because the reason behind it is important because if your so-called close ally is fencing a tiny country from you as if you are going to expand into it? Now that is awkward territory but I don't think it was because of that but if it was because of that lmao that would be hilarious and showchase the Americans as being very insecure
 
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Super Falcon

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Turks has to ask usa you cant keep two melons in onwme hand if you put air force base in greece we will also bring russia near to you by using our bases do hell with nato
 

Foinikas

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The greeks have been making alot of unnecessary noise lately while Turkey is busy elsewhere..
That's the misconception,that we are the ones making all the noise.


are the Americans getting insecure about Greece being overrun by Turkey because if that was the case than this could become idiotic and diplomatic issue because the reason behind it is important because if your so-called close ally is fencing a tiny country from you as if you are going to expand into it? Now that is awkward territory but I don't think it was because of that but if it was because of that lmao that would be hilarious and showchase the Americans as being very insecure
They probably want to leave Incirlik and see Erdogan as unstable and unreliable as an ally.
Turks has to ask usa you cant keep two melons in onwme hand if you put air force base in greece we will also bring russia near to you by using our bases do hell with nato
Americans already have bases in Greece for decades.
 

Battlion25

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That's the misconception,that we are the ones making all the noise.



They probably want to leave Incirlik and see Erdogan as unstable and unreliable as an ally.
the US doesn't want to exit alliance with Turkey. You are thinking from greek narrative but they think from a world chessboard game narrative which is completely different thing. Biden has actully diminished the US chances in the foreign politics arena the US has lost territory since the arrival of Biden because he somehow granted China a massive ground whereas to the surprise of many trump was doing things right.

In the current world you are only as strong as the amount of allies you have. The US losing Turkey will be major blow and what other camp is there? That is right China-Russia camp which already has advantage on the US thanks to Biden who when he entered office almost damaged relations with Egypt, KSA, Pakistan, and Turkey plus couple of other countries in the region. If China can get these 4 the GCC follows, Morocco follows, Tunisia follows, Malaysia, Indonesia, follows, etc etc many many others follows jump ship to China. It already had strong team previously if it adds all these elements it is game over for US hegemony the Dollar will be replaced without any contest in such scenario. EU and the US can't chellenge Russia, China, and Majority of Asia in one coalition. Hence the US will always try to save the relations with Turkey at all costs and will only divorce if it was the absolute last resort
 
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Foinikas

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the US doesn't want to exit alliance with Turkey. You are thinking from greek narrative but they think from a world chessboard game narratove which is completely different thing.
I'm not saying they will completely cut ties or kick Turkey out of NATO. I'm just saying that might leave Incirlik. Check the last part of the first post.
 

Battlion25

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I'm not saying they will completely cut ties or kick Turkey out of NATO. I'm just saying that might leave Incirlik. Check the last part of the first post.
Only if they were kicked out of Incirlik..

Tho China long term game is waiting for far-right elements to come to power across the west and in Europe speficially populists and The US and Europe is already dealing with populist journalists and activists nightmare who constantly annoy many countries and there increase will definitely cause issues down the line that is what China is sitting around and wait for it. Everything to come to it naturally by sitting and waiting on the fence so the balance shift towards them gaining more alliance than the US which could happen if things progress in such way as I put it.

These populists are not to be reasoned with or interact with intellectually for many of these countries they view them as childish which they technically are because they can't be reached intellectually they will basically run down the US and EU foreign policy to the ground and just burn bridges everywhere
 
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Valar.

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Turkey doesn't feel squeezed here tho it has large reach in the area and what is behind it. The catch is that Greek itself is to insignficiant it is small country as per in numbers and everything it doesn't add anything to the occasion hence Turkey will always have greater importance than Greek because Turkey is argubably 2nd strongest NATO armed forces.
Whenever guys like you talk about Turkey vs Greece with size ratio of 8:1 and how insignificant the smaller player is, just think about this is exactly how others view us (India vs Pak) with a size ratio of 7:1 , If you believe we can give a bloody nose to Indians, know that, so can Greeks to Turks. Same thing can be said for our vs their regional importance, economy etc.
 

Battlion25

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Whenever guys like you talk about Turkey vs Greece with size ratio of 8:1 and how insignificant the smaller player is, just think about this is exactly how others view us (India vs Pak) with a size ratio of 7:1 , If you believe we can give a bloody nose to Indians, know that, so can Greeks to Turks. Same thing can be said for our vs their regional importance, economy etc.
The ratio there is completely different tho. The Turks are not exactly incompetent bunch they were a world hegemony for over 600 years and nor are the greeks incompetent like the Indians because the greeks themselves have imperial creds. Whereas the situation in Pak-India is different because these Indus valley ppl aka modern day pakistan have reigned over India for thousands of years uninterrupted that is a huge asterisk next to India. Pakistan is almost 300m that is not exactly small ratio wise despite the Indians being over billion Pakistan has the competency advantage on them hence it really never viewed them as intimidating as Pakistan would have viewed had it been the US sitting next to it instead of India despite India being more numerous in numbers. Pakistan can completely take India from a pure conventional military standpoint anyone who can't see Pakistan having ways to victory is being dishonest individual and look I am not saying india can't do vice versa oh yeah they absolutely can but it will all come down to the tactics and who implants the better game plan in such engagements or to put it short the more intelligent and cunning general will take it.. Not taking anything from India but Japan would have been more chellenging neighbour despite being around only 150m. Quality - > quantity but Quality+quanity --> trumps just Quantity
 
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Foinikas

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The Turks are not exactly incompetent bunch they were a world hegemony for over 600 years
Well you can say they were a military and economic power for about 400 years.

Basically Pakistan and Greece are far more similar in the geopolitical sphere:

1.Both countries have a historical enemy on their eastern borders
2.Both countries used to be part of one empire at some point with their enemy
3.Greece and Pakistan are smaller in size,population and economy than Turkey and India
4.Both had population exchange deals,the Greeks from Asia Minor to mainland Greece and the Muhajirs to Pakistan
5.Greece is majority Christian Orthodox and Pakistan majority Sunni and have been trying to preserve their traditions,religion and culture
against extreme westernization.
6.Greece is occasionally supported by a big country to the northeast,Russia and hopes they will intervene to stop the Turks,the Pakistanis are allied with the Chinese.
7.India has a propaganda machine that often lies and blame Pakistan for everything. India mocks Pakistan but at the same time say they feel threatened by Pakistan. Turkey has a similar propaganda machine and the government often lies on matters concerning Greece.
If Greece says white,Turkey will say black. If Greece says it's day,the Turks will say it's night.
8.No matter how much we hate each other,when citizens have problems in Turkey,Greece will try to help first and feel bad about them.
I think the same happens with Pakistanis and Indians.
9.Pakistan and Greece were both often disappointed by American foreign policy,feeling they supported their enemies.
10.Both countries have often opposed US wars against Iraq and other places in the middle-east and both sympathize with the Palestinian cause.
11.Both countries have often fought against enemies with bigger numbers and won.
12.Both countries saw the other half of their homeland taken from them and their enemies' territories are full of monuments of the glorious past of their former empires and cultures. Ancient Greek/Byzantine Empire and Mughal Empire.
13. Greece has Cyprus and Pakistan has Kashmir.
14. India criticizes Pakistan for arming itself even though they buy even more weapons. Turkey does the same thing with Greece
15. Pakistani pilots are better than Indian pilots and Greek pilots better than Turkish ones.

Basically,if it wasn't for the whole "Turkey-Pakistan brother nations" thing,Greece and Pakistan could have been great friends. It's that little thing that makes Pakistanis far more biased or reluctant towards greeks.
 
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Battlion25

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Well you can say they were a military and economic power for about 400 years.

Basically Pakistan and Greece are far more similar in the geopolitical sphere:

1.Both countries have a historical enemy on their eastern borders
2.Both countries used to be part of one empire at some point with their enemy
3.Greece and Pakistan are smaller in size,population and economy than Turkey and India
4.Both had population exchange deals,the Greeks from Asia Minor to mainland Greece and the Muhajirs to Pakistan
5.Greece is majority Christian Orthodox and Pakistan majority Sunni and have been trying to preserve their traditions,religion and culture
against extreme westernization.
6.Greece is occasionally supported by a big country to the northeast,Russia and hopes they will intervene to stop the Turks,the Pakistanis are allied with the Chinese.
7.India has a propaganda machine that often lies and blame Pakistan for everything. India mocks Pakistan but at the same time say they feel threatened by Pakistan. Turkey has a similar propaganda machine and the government often lies on matters concerning Greece.
If Greece says white,Turkey will say black. If Greece says it's day,the Turks will say it's night.
8.No matter how much we hate each other,when citizens have problems in Turkey,Greece will try to help first and feel bad about them.
I think the same happens with Pakistanis and Indians.
9.Pakistan and Greece were both often disappointed by American foreign policy,thinking they supported their enemies.
10.Both countries' have often opposed US wars against Iraq and other places in the middle-east and both sympathize and like the Palestinians.
11.Both countries have often fought against enemies with bigger numbers and won.
12.Both countries saw the other have of their homelands taken from them and their enemies' territories are full of monuments of the glorious past of their former empires and cultures. Ancient Greek/Byzantine Empire and Mughal Empire.
13. Greece has Cyprus and Pakistan has Kashmir.

Basically,if it wasn't for the whole "Turkey-Pakistan brother nations" thing,Greece and Pakistan could have been great friends. It's that little thing that makes Pakistanis far more biased or reluctant towards greeks.
I agree with some of the comparisons but not all of it and honestly I am not being patriotic and I respect the greek sovereignty and self-determination by all means. I view Greece with fond memories and a civilized country. It is not the Turk-greek part I disagree with here but the other part.

As for the Indian file and this is me not being patriotic I am being very objective. We have them under control and we won't be needing anyones help in regards to them I assure you of this. I am telling you this frankly we have the strength and capability to end India as an state and invade it when real push comes to shove. This is not blind faith or wishful thinking this is something I don't do but rather a calculated answer we don't lack the capability or firepower of putting away our foe here completely nor the fighting spirit.

Our doctrine against any miscaluclation is offensive and this is something we have maintained against India if a fall-out comes we come for everything and we count on any eventuality.

alot of people tend to view India under false lense which is entirely not how it is viewed by Pakistan nor do military experts view their chances against Pakistan as nothing more than as good as their generals if he fails to match the witts and cunningness of ours I assure you India in it's entirety will fall to us this is simple conventional engagement mathematics. The Indians are not displined enough nor match the willingness of our soldiers to die and if you defeat death before even stepping into the field there is not much that can stop you on such day plus being completely logistically and conventionally prepared on top of that. Their size will not avail them in the least and if there armed forces were to be destroyed the whole country will be open meaning there is only 1.3m forces stands infront of us while pakistan has tens of millions of fighting forces if you include militias and tribals etc etc.

And again I am not being patriotic nor bias but India is a country where I can confidently say if we implant great tactical awareness and stragetic engagement and unleash superior tactical awareness in the conventional arena we could sollow it like an anaconda sollowing a bison. They also have alot of social issues with vegetarianism and pacifists they are not always in their right minds to engage or sustain a very tough environment engagement world with high intensity they will yield there is an amount of pressure they can take for an amount of duration. Whereas Pakistanis are as hard as they come and incredibly resilient. There is many unpredictable aspects of Pakistan that India doesn't know how to addresse or measure because there is so much unpredictability they can't measure Pakistan it is just a whole grey area for them it can be one that comes out flying at the get go and end them completely or one that is more patient etc etc but all that comes down to the intelligence and cunningness of our military planners as for India itself we have complete deterence against them and have always fancied our chances not based on blind faith which is on the contrary but from a pragmatic point of view
 
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Apollon

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Turkey doesn't feel squeezed here tho it has large reach in the area and what is behind it. The catch is that Greek itself is to insignficiant it is small country as per in numbers and everything it doesn't add anything to the occasion hence Turkey will always have greater importance than Greek because Turkey is argubably 2nd strongest NATO armed forces.

The greeks have been making alot of unnecessary noise lately while Turkey is busy elsewhere.. Turkey doesn't see anything of it's western border as one country but multiple countries into one entity of sort. Greece is just one tiny insignficiant country in a larger body.

But one thing I don't understand is the message behind this? This is where questions need to be asked?

are the Americans getting insecure about Greece being overrun by Turkey because if that was the case than this could become idiotic and diplomatic issue because the reason behind it is important because if your so-called close ally is fencing a tiny country from you as if you are going to expand into it? Now that is awkward territory but I don't think it was because of that but if it was because of that lmao that would be hilarious and showchase the Americans as being very insecure

Turkey is not a member of NATO anymore, only on paper so basicly Greece has to carry the mantle of responsibility to secure the south eastern border of NATO.
 

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