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Govt refuses to reveal details of foreign gifts given to PM Imran

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With each passing day we keep hearing embarrassing stories against PTI. They could have been great but they decided to be SH!T just like the rest.
 

Xestan

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Of course no PM is immune to criticism but what exactly do you want to criticize him for?

He receives gifts and normally deposits them in Toshakhana in accordance with law. He didn't keep them for himself although the law allows that the PM can keep them by paying 50% of the price (compared to 15% in previous governments). So, unless IK keeps something for himself, either by stealing (like Yusuf Raza) or by paying a very little amount (like Zardari and Nawaz Sharif), you can't blame/criticize IK ... Those gifts are a property of the government of Pakistan and the decision/policy of the government not to advertise or compare those gifts is understandable.

So, the gifts are being used to repair roads to Bani Gala.


Why not just disclose these details and be more transparent.
 

M. Sarmad

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So, the gifts are being used to repair roads to Bani Gala.


Why not just disclose these details and be more transparent.
Roads to Bani Gala are a public property, IK selling gifts he acquired legally from Toshakhana and spending the money on roads/public projects means he is spending his personal fortune for public projects (not the other way around)

As for the law and procedures, they have been in place since Ayub's time (though Ayub remains the only head of the state in our history who didn't keep a single gift for himself), and the PTI govt raised the amount required to be deposited in Toshakhana by the recipient to 50% from 15% (A step in the right direction.)

Nothing wrong in disclosing details of gifts received by govt. officials, or in changing the procedure/rules. Countries like US or even India do not allow the heads of the state to retain any gifts.. But that's for the federal government to decide
 
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M. Sarmad

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Then how were the previous shenanigans exposed?
I think it was in 2009/2010 during PPP tenure that first such report was presented in the National Assembly and lists of gifts received by all Presidents/PMs since Ayub was disclosed. Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto's name was mysteriously missing from the list though the list included details of the gifts received and retained by Benazir and Zardari.

The purpose apparently was to malign Musharraf and his team for the alleged irregularities, and the report was specifically focused on the ten year period, i.e. 1999-2009. As per the report, Shaukat Aziz tops the list who took 1,126 gifts with him on his last flight from Islamabad to London in 2008

When Nawaz Sharif became PM in 2013, the previous governments (including the Zardari govt) were criticized once again and much was revealed about expensive gifts taken home by Zardari.

The incumbent PTI govt (or Estb) hasn't released new/selective information, it is only taking action based on the already released information.
 

VCheng

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The incumbent PTI govt (or Estb) hasn't released new/selective information, it is only taking action based on the already released information.
And yet there is no confidence in that the system releases information fairly without bias. That is the problem that undermines the due process. This is more of a political image problem that can be easily rectified by releasing the information about the gifts given to PMIK, whatever they may be. Claiming classified information will only serve to cast aspersions for which there is no rhyme or reason, or even any benefit, given that all agree that PMIK is not corrupt, at least.
 
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M. Sarmad

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And yet there is no confidence in that the system releases information fairly without bias. That is the problem that undermines the due process. This is more of a political image problem that can be easily rectified by releasing the information about the gifts given to PMIK, whatever they may be. Claiming classified information will only serve to cast aspersions for which there is no rhyme or reason, or even any benefit, given that all agree that PMIK is not corrupt, at least.
Agreed.. Though I believe that it's the Cabinet Division Bureaucracy that is averse to transparency in Toshakhana (and other similar) dealings as secrecy allows them unhindered control over the treasury. As per the aforementioned report, A gift by Prince Charles was assessed at PKR 300 only, a bag gifted by Tony Blair's wife at PKR 200 and Scarfs gifted by Nepal government at PKR 25 each. This indeed is ridiculous and needs to end

PTI govt should amend/repeal Government Servants (Conduct) Rules, 1964 and The Procedure for the Acceptance and Disposal of Gifts, and bring in its place more transparent rules
 

muhammadhafeezmalik

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I think this is a fair criticism, and an unnecessary distraction that PMIK is brining on himself. Their counter argument is likely to be that "these hooligans" will make a mountain out of nothing, so these thieves are not the right party to this process. In many Western countries Ombudsman (independent), often driven such checks in an objective approach. Perhaps PTI should give this to a Federal Ombudsman this task. This way it will get the right scrutiny and also hold PTI to account which is the right thing to do.
Here RTI Commissioner is doing the same job, government has gone in IHC against the order of RTI Commissioner. Government is reluctant to tell even the number of gifts received by officials.
 

Mav3rick

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I know more about the inner workings of this government than I care to. Sadly I also know the inner workings of the previous two governments quite well (PPP more so). If I even told you 10% of what I have seen (first hand) the previous two gov (political) officials do, it will make you cynical about Pakistan. The direct corruption at the highest levels especially in the PPP government was breathtaking. And what is sad is how little concern for accountability they had. So yes IK and his government is far better than the other two lots. Now there is certainly room to criticize some of his and his governments decisions, but anyone trying to equate PTI govs corruption with the previous two has not the slightest clue of what has gone on in this country. Those past indiscretions are the gifts that in large measure give us the inflationary pressure, the deflated rupee, the deficits, and the IMF sword. Even Musharraf's era which was a liquidity infused consumption based growth has a lot to share in the overall blame.
Unfortunately, I too am deeply aware of the working of the previous 2 Governments as well as the incumbent. However, my awareness is limited to the Federal Government; I do not have internal awareness of Provincial Governments but the state of affairs of Karachi and Sindh are ample proof of the performance of PPP.

Your opinion is that the incumbent is far better the previous 2 Governments in terms of corruption, I believe it to be the same. In terms of competence, well on a scale of 100, PPP was perhaps 15% competent, PML around 25% and PTI is somewhere around 12%; but that again is my own opinion. Musharraf's era too was not very good but I guess he was in for the long game as he always spoke about the 20 year plan and perhaps, if he had stayed for 20 years, he could have managed things more efficiently.

Further, I personally would choose a competent dishonest person over an incompetent honest person any day; not that the incumbent is at all competent. And please, let's not argue on the competence of the incumbent which is evident from the shuffle of ministers and advisors on how they rate each other.
 

AZ1

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media and ppl will start comparing countries gift and make jokes as this nation is good at.

When term is over, IK should give the list of gifts.
Further, I personally would choose a competent dishonest person over an incompetent honest person any day; not that the incumbent is at all competent. And please, let's not argue on the competence of the incumbent which is evident from the shuffle of ministers and advisors on how they rate each other.
That's why pakistan left with $92 billion with contracts to burden the pakistan.

What competent are they? if price kept increasing even in ppp,pmln era? name 1 thing that came down?

then again remittance, export, cad, reserves and all will give clear picture in end of 2022.
 

VCheng

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Agreed.. Though I believe that it's the Cabinet Division Bureaucracy that is averse to transparency in Toshakhana (and other similar) dealings as secrecy allows them unhindered control over the treasury. As per the aforementioned report, A gift by Prince Charles was assessed at PKR 300 only, a bag gifted by Tony Blair's wife at PKR 200 and Scarfs gifted by Nepal government at PKR 25 each. This indeed is ridiculous and needs to end

PTI govt should amend/repeal Government Servants (Conduct) Rules, 1964 and The Procedure for the Acceptance and Disposal of Gifts, and bring in its place more transparent rules
There is nothing stopping PMIK and his setup to do what you suggest. The lack of change suggests tacit approval of the way thing are being done.
 

Jungibaaz

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As ever, IK is perhaps showing that he’s not too different from other politicians, which doesn’t merit special criticism on its own. But his past comments vs. his current record at the very least illicits calls of hypocrisy.

If it was wrong to accept gifts at substantial discounts then. It should be the same now. If the minimally accepted practice of declaring them was necessary then, then it still is now.

IMO gifts should all be declared, discounts should be minimal and incremental with the value, and the value should be assessed by third party valuators. PM and President shouldn’t be exempted either. Anytime we give gifts, they come out of the national exchequer.

But this is not the issue here though, you can make an argument for the opposite, but you can’t make one argument in opposition, and then do the opposite in power.
 

RoadRunner401

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The following is an excerpt from documents submitted to the Supreme Court by the children of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif for the Panamagate hearing. The assertions made in these extracts are solely the view of the respondents.

A document submitted by the children of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif contains the respondent's version of how flats in Avenfield House, Park Lane London were acquired.

"Flats no.16, 16a and 17a, Avenfield House, Park Lane, London (the "properties") were purchased by the Al-Thani family and their ownership was secured through two companies, namely Nielsen Enterprises Limited and Nescoll Limited (the "Entities"), the bearer share certificates of which were kept by the Al-Thani family in Qatar.


On account of the longstanding business and personal relations of the Al-Thani family with Late Mian Muhammad Sharif, Al-Thani family allowed Late Mian Muhammad Sharif and his family to use the Properties whilst bearing all expenses relating to the Properties including the ground rent and service charges.


That, after his exile from Pakistan on 10th December 2000, Late Mian Muhammad Sharif advised Al-Thani family that the said investment, together with its cumulative return, would be for the benefit of his eldest grandson, i.e. respondent No. 7 [Hussain Nawaz].


That ultimately in the year 2006, the account between Al-Thani family and respondent No.7 was settled through which the Properties were transferred by delivery of the bearer shares of the Entities to nominee of Respondent No.7.


That respondent No.6 is a trustee for the benefit of respondent no.7 in pursuance of a Trust Deed of 2006, which has been executed between Respondent No.6 [Maryam Nawaz] and Respondent No. 7.


That since the year 2006, the Properties are owned by Respondent No.7."

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 

Jungibaaz

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The real issue here is the non-consistency of information disclosure according to political expediency.
Exactly. And both Nawaz Sharif and IK are guilty of this hypocrisy. IK said one thing in opposition and is now doing the opposite. Nawaz is criticising this now, but during his tenure a similar request for information came via the senate regarding gifts, the PML government quashed it citing the EXACT same reasoning that’s currently being peddled by IK. Someone should remind NS of this hypocrisy before one of his rants.

This elite culture is endemic, here at least in the case of gifts there is no obvious victim, as the tax payer’s loss is abstracted. Much worse happens routinely with regards to land, plots, areas siphoned off or forcefully captured by legal means in the name of the public interest, only for housing developments and plots to emerge. Sickening elitism.
 

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