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Govt exhorted to seek IMF-led debt restructuring for 3-5 years

CrazyZ

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Can you go into more depth please?

What gives the presidential system the edge? Considering the diversity of Pakistan, the presidential system could also be a burden.

Tbh I just think democracy is a flawed ideology for the current state of Pakistan, people are unable to actually elect leaders based on merit but rather tribal/ethnic affiliation.
USA is more ethnically diverse than Pakistan by a wide margin. Urban areas are politically alien to the rural hinterland. I'm not sure why you think a presidential system wont work in Pakistan.

USA's democracy is more stable then Britain's.....Election cycles are fixed.....terms are suppose to be completed. This is not required in the British system. USA politicians relay on economic experts in the Federal Reserve and Congressional budget office before making key decisions. There is generally less political activism in USA compared to UK or Pakistan.

These are the three key lessons for Pakistan. For political economy, Pakistan needs three things.....fixed political terms.....more input from economic experts on fiscal, trade and monetary policy.....and less political activism and dramas.
 

epebble

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USA is more ethnically diverse than Pakistan by a wide margin. Urban areas are politically alien to the rural hinterland. I'm not sure why you think a presidential system wont work in Pakistan.

USA's democracy is more stable then Britain's.....Election cycles are fixed.....terms are suppose to be completed. This is not required in the British system. USA politicians relay on economic experts in the Federal Reserve and Congressional budget office before making key decisions. There is generally less political activism in USA compared to UK or Pakistan.

These are the three key lessons for Pakistan. For political economy, Pakistan needs three things.....fixed political terms.....more input from economic experts on fiscal, trade and monetary policy.....and less political activism and dramas.
But we get stuck with a bad president. Almost impossible to fire him. Nixon, Clinton, Trump all created crises. In U.K., they can replace a P.M. as easily as getting rid of a McDonald burger flipper. It was so easy to fire Liz Truss instead of suffering for two more years. But the part about leaving economic decisions to apolitical experts (but with Congressional oversight) is our genius. That should be emulated. The decisions being made by Dar wouldn't be made by even an incompetent economist.
 

CrazyZ

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But we get stuck with a bad president. Almost impossible to fire him. Nixon, Clinton, Trump all created crises
You only have to wait a few years to replace them plus the other branches keep a check on president. The stability gained by fixed terms is more critical then the need to replace bad presidents.
 

R2D2

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My studies indicate that single/two party states that hoard forex and focus on growth through exports via government backed for profit corporations have done the best economically over the last 50 years. Britain has done nothing but lose geopolitical and economic power over the last 50 years. Britain is a poor role model to follow. Unfortunately, most Pakistani political elites are educated in Britain so try to emulate it. :hitwall:

Britain has had 5 PM and 7 finance ministers since Brexit. Paris is now the biggest financial center in Europe. I wasn't sure if the presenter in this clip was talking about UK or Pakistan. :lol: :lol:

East Asian and American presidential systems are better for economic performance, IMO.
Export led growth is given as the model for development. Alternatively, we can concentrate on decimating luxurious imports so that dollars are not needed in the first place and concentrating on developing domestic demand and supply based production and consumption.

But we get stuck with a bad president. Almost impossible to fire him. Nixon, Clinton, Trump all created crises. In U.K., they can replace a P.M. as easily as getting rid of a McDonald burger flipper. It was so easy to fire Liz Truss instead of suffering for two more years. But the part about leaving economic decisions to apolitical experts (but with Congressional oversight) is our genius. That should be emulated. The decisions being made by Dar wouldn't be made by even an incompetent economist.
There is no genius. It is economic exploitation of the whole economy and the government based on interest and the bankers.

USA is more ethnically diverse than Pakistan by a wide margin. Urban areas are politically alien to the rural hinterland. I'm not sure why you think a presidential system wont work in Pakistan.

USA's democracy is more stable then Britain's.....Election cycles are fixed.....terms are suppose to be completed. This is not required in the British system. USA politicians relay on economic experts in the Federal Reserve and Congressional budget office before making key decisions. There is generally less political activism in USA compared to UK or Pakistan.

These are the three key lessons for Pakistan. For political economy, Pakistan needs three things.....fixed political terms.....more input from economic experts on fiscal, trade and monetary policy.....and less political activism and dramas.
We don't need "Landay ke economic experts from World Bank, IMF and CitiBank". We need economic freedom from these financial vultures like Atif Mian and a dozen others using home grown strategies.
 
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CrazyZ

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We don't need "Landay ke economic experts from World Bank, IMF and CitiBank". We need economic freedom from these financial vultures like Atif Mian and a dozen others using home grown strategies.
Many Pakistani economic experts are educated in western universities and have worked in western financial firms. They generally imitate British/western economic notions with or without IMF pressure. PPP nationalization drives were inspired by British policies. Later PPP and PML would both focus on a "service based" economy.....completely ignoring base and export industries.....letting them wither away. This works if you have a reserve currency and can print your way out of problems and don't have to worry about forex reserves......but not for developing country.

My key point is Pakistan should look successful governance and economic role models.....and Britain is not that. It should look at east Asia and USA, IMO. PM and legislature don't have enough economic check on them in Pakistan. Maybe President in Pakistan should be allowed to review and veto legislative policies that cause economic harm. Maybe President should be allowed to fine parties that cause instability. Current governance structure is a big part of the problem and must be restructured.
 
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Imran Khan

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Many Pakistani economic experts are educated in western universities and have worked in western financial firms. They generally imitate British/western economic notions with or without IMF pressure. PPP nationalization drives were inspired by British policies. Later PPP and PML would both focus on a "service based" economy.....completely ignoring base and export industries.....letting them wither away. This works if you have a reserve currency and can print your way out of problems but not for developing country.

My key point is Pakistan should look successful governance and economic role models.....and Britain is not that. It should look at east asia and USA, IMO.
It should look inside sir .
 

epebble

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Many Pakistani economic experts are educated in western universities and have worked in western financial firms. They generally imitate British/western economic notions with or without IMF pressure. PPP nationalization drives were inspired by British policies. Later PPP and PML would both focus on a "service based" economy.....completely ignoring base and export industries.....letting them wither away. This works if you have a reserve currency and can print your way out of problems and don't have to worry about forex reserves......but not for developing country.

My key point is Pakistan should look successful governance and economic role models.....and Britain is not that. It should look at east Asia and USA, IMO. PM and legislature don't have enough economic check on them in Pakistan. Maybe President in Pakistan should be allowed to review and veto legislative policies that cause economic harm. Maybe President should be allowed to fine parties that cause instability. Current governance structure is a big part of the problem and must be restructured.
"Western" educated economists are not the root of Pakistan's problem. Demand, supply, scarcity, price, investment, employment are same concepts taught in all schools. Pakistan's problem is misallocation of resources. Pakistan decided, for historic and cultural reason, to focus on military and religion than education and skills development. And, also decided to live as a rent seeking nation than an industrious nation using geo-politics as its core competence. The problem, post August 2021, is that Pakistan's geo-politics is not very valuable. That is what the previous national security person is also saying. But, to go from rent seeking to industry will take many decades of skills development and no one can figure out how to build that bridge.
 

Imran Khan

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blain2

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Angola, Zambia - that’s some company Pakistan is made to keep.

I wish people knew what their civ/mil leaders are filling their coffers with right now.
People know, but whatever the civ/mil leaders may be doing with their finances, it is not enough to address Pakistan's current account deficit issues. Let's not sell these fairy tales to the masses that the thieving politicians are the only reason we are poor.

Our country as a whole just wants more of the stuff that others make and they they don't sell enough of their own. It is simply down to this basic issue. If there is corruption of even $10B a year, that is not addressing the almost $40B a year account deficit. Someone just posted that Rs1100 billion worth of corruption cases have been forgiven. Okay, recover the money and even then what ails Pakistan will continue.

So this talk of corruption is fine to prosecute some of these thieves and punish to set a precedence, but beyond that, we need a hard look at our economy (whether PDM or PTI) and what ails it. Jail sentences are not solving this problem "meray Pakistanio!"

Ban the imported cat food if the country does not attain a better balance of exports vs. imports.
 
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SaadH

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Aitezaz Ahsan in his book The Indus Saga quotes this Punjabi saying

Khada peeda lai da, te baqi Ahmed Shahi da

He says that people of this region have developed a psyche to eat well and wear good clothes as Ahmed Shah Durrani will come from Afghanistan and take all that is left.
Spoken like a true bigoted Punjabi nationalist
 

ghazi52

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l;l;l;
1670352454693.png
 

nangyale

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So this talk of corruption is fine to prosecute some of these thieves and punish to set a precedence, but beyond that, we need a hard look at our economy (whether PDM or PTI) and what ails it. Jail sentences are not solving this problem "meray Pakistanio!"

Ban the imported cat food if the country does not attain a better balance of exports vs. imports.
Agree with the part that Pakistanis need to start living within means. Just wanted to add, that this talk of PTI or PDM is wrong. What really needs to change is the stranglehold of the Army on the whole Pakistani economy, its corruption which no one is allowed to talk about. And it's Generals who are not accountable to anyone except themselves.
 

CrazyZ

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"Western" educated economists are not the root of Pakistan's problem. Demand, supply, scarcity, price, investment, employment are same concepts taught in all schools. Pakistan's problem is misallocation of resources. Pakistan decided, for historic and cultural reason, to focus on military and religion than education and skills development. And, also decided to live as a rent seeking nation than an industrious nation using geo-politics as its core competence. The problem, post August 2021, is that Pakistan's geo-politics is not very valuable. That is what the previous national security person is also saying. But, to go from rent seeking to industry will take many decades of skills development and no one can figure out how to build that bridge.
Rent seeking works great in the USA today...its part of the service based economy. Ask the Trumps. :lol: :lol: USA trade and fiscal deficits are at record levels. USA has a reserve currency so can simply add more zeros to its accounts with a few key strokes at the federal reserve. Developing countries can not do this. PPP and PML economists try to emulate a service based economy of the west.....letting base and export industries wither.....and importing everything. Works fine for western countries but won't work in Pakistan.
 

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