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Governance of Azad Kashmir

Azadkashmir

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AJK government is at fault for not doing basic development work and instead eating all the funds...

Go to Muzaffarabad and see the number of sarkari cars---
One for the sarkari afsar
one for his dame
and one for little son that lives down the lane.


Language spoken in most AJK including Mirpur is the same as spoken in Pindi-Islamabad region...
Staff are not necessarily locals

Go to dadyal and other local areas, run down run by thugs for bribes, go to airport Islamabad pay bribes and they will attack you. no locals hired for jobs. Most roads built are paid for by British nationals. no decent schools, no decent universities, no industry. what is going on?
In my town in the UK, most folks from Azad Kashmir never had or had a relative in the government sector or even in the military except probably I met one or two that's it. No one else has ever been in the government sector or other institutions except own small shops. The islambad airport is far, two or more hours away from where most UK nationals live in azad Kashmir, this is very inconvenient and expensive. resentment is building up in the community.
 
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Dubious

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I don't hate Pakistanis but let's be honest they are too far corrupt.
So is every other country....considering every other country is also well off than Pakistan and yet corrupt and still not caught?

https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/922646/most-corrupt-countries-in-the-world-UK
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tain-corrupt-mafia-hay-festival-a7054851.html

Who said it is your country maybe Punjabi land is yours Azad k is ours. Count on your finger how many traitors came from pak and how many from the UK including Azad k,
I dont divide my country. Kindly stop dividing it like every indians dream!

e.g Nawaz Sharif, Musharaf, bhuttos, Zardari, molvi diesel, Hamid mir, Kiani, Altaf Hussain, some of these man were military, where are they from?
So who is more loyal?.
You are saying like a piece of land decides who will come out to be corrupt or not?! You are the one who few posts ago claimed everyone in Kashmir was corrupt, the representatives are not worth it and they mind you are Kashmiri!

60 years existence but Azad k is like 15th century and you say I want a snap snap fix. I think 60 years is a very long time. Vote yeah, if corrupt Islamic Pakistan allowed British-paks to do so.
You know very well even Pakistanis have been waiting for a fix for the past 7 decades! So you are not ALONE in the mess! We are also in the same mess even worse considering you dont even want to be part of us and dream to divide us just like the indians dream! Maybe you prefer being part of IOK getting pallets and getting blind?

Sure, alot of wrong happened. MOST Pakistanis acknowledge it and want a fix! Otherwise why do we keep going to UN? Why are we seeking a legal means to get this fix and wasting our time, resources and looking like a fool everytime we get nothing?
 

Joe Shearer

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So is every other country....considering every other country is also well off than Pakistan and yet corrupt and still not caught?

https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/922646/most-corrupt-countries-in-the-world-UK
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tain-corrupt-mafia-hay-festival-a7054851.html


I dont divide my country. Kindly stop dividing it like every indians dream!


You are saying like a piece of land decides who will come out to be corrupt or not?! You are the one who few posts ago claimed everyone in Kashmir was corrupt, the representatives are not worth it and they mind you are Kashmiri!


You know very well even Pakistanis have been waiting for a fix for the past 7 decades! So you are not ALONE in the mess! We are also in the same mess even worse considering you dont even want to be part of us and dream to divide us just like the indians dream! Maybe you prefer being part of IOK getting pallets and getting blind?

Sure, alot of wrong happened. MOST Pakistanis acknowledge it and want a fix! Otherwise why do we keep going to UN? Why are we seeking a legal means to get this fix and wasting our time, resources and looking like a fool everytime we get nothing?
Interesting. Pathologically speaking, that is.
 

313ghazi

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Every I'll that is in AJK starts and ends at the feet of our people. Take Mirpur, Dadyal, Kotli even as an example.

Most households here have people abroad working or living. They have access to expat money. They are not reliant on any nawab or chaudary - YET our political scene is as backward as interior Sindh or Balochistan. Our people will not raise a voice against the corrupt, they won't vote outside of their caste, they fear being seen as an "enemy" of the existing political class.

They also like to take advantage of the corruption and low law enforcement. People drive without licences, don't pay tokens for thier cars, don't keep them in a safe state, offer bribes themselves.

As for the airport example. I have travelled to Pakistan multiple times in my life and I've never paid a bribe. However our people when they come they will bring laptops and electronic devices and not pay duty. They will bring dozens of stolen mobile phones bought cheap to hand out to relatives like nawabzaday. When they leave they will take cigarettes (more than they are allowed too) or food items. The customs guys know this and they pressure them to pay bribes.

I dont break any rules, I don't pay bribes. If they want to check my bags, I duly oblige them.

How can we blame the people in Islamabad when we appoint the ones in Muzaffarabad.
 

Azadkashmir

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So is every other country....considering every other country is also well off than Pakistan and yet corrupt and still not caught?

https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/922646/most-corrupt-countries-in-the-world-UK
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tain-corrupt-mafia-hay-festival-a7054851.html


I dont divide my country. Kindly stop dividing it like every indians dream!


You are saying like a piece of land decides who will come out to be corrupt or not?! You are the one who few posts ago claimed everyone in Kashmir was corrupt, the representatives are not worth it and they mind you are Kashmiri!


You know very well even Pakistanis have been waiting for a fix for the past 7 decades! So you are not ALONE in the mess! We are also in the same mess even worse considering you dont even want to be part of us and dream to divide us just like the indians dream! Maybe you prefer being part of IOK getting pallets and getting blind?

Sure, alot of wrong happened. MOST Pakistanis acknowledge it and want a fix! Otherwise why do we keep going to UN? Why are we seeking a legal means to get this fix and wasting our time, resources and looking like a fool everytime we get nothing?

I am not dividing any one. it's Pakistanis on other side that have done that, have we forgotten east Pakistan. It is pakistani establishment that sells itself don't blame us uk paks. corruption exist in every country but Pakistan take's the prize
from the molvi to the prime minister. Their is more brothels in pak than in uk.
pellets on other side i can say what has army done to liberate it, apart from eating dollars and playing politics with the people.
 

Dubious

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It is pakistani establishment that sells itself don't blame us uk paks. corruption exist in every country but Pakistan take's the prize
No one is blaming British Pakistanis since we all know you arent a representative of anyone but yourself! As for corruption, I already posted 2 articles, if you still wish to disbelieve then it is not for me to chat any further!

Their is more brothels in pak than in uk.
Proof?

pellets on other side i can say what has army done to liberate it, apart from eating dollars and playing politics with the people.
If it is so easy why dont you join army, run the ranks and liberate it? Or any other Kashmiri...


BTW, when you pointed at NS as corrupt, dont forget he proclaims himself as Kashmiri :agree:
 

Azadkashmir

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f
No one is blaming British Pakistanis since we all know you arent a representative of anyone but yourself! As for corruption, I already posted 2 articles, if you still wish to disbelieve then it is not for me to chat any further!


Proof?


If it is so easy why dont you join army, run the ranks and liberate it? Or any other Kashmiri...


BTW, when you pointed at NS as corrupt, dont forget he proclaims himself as Kashmiri :agree:
so out of many, I listed one claims to be Kashmiri, what about the rest? yes they from pakistan sides not azad k or uk. Those articles are not credible. ok I put up plenty of articles like that on this forum but i get told it is not good enough or get told off. I didn't say it is easy, I tell you what if UK paks were an army some parts of kashmir, at least be liberated and there would be no nepotism in the institution. I have aright to criticize since they have failed so badly its mind boggling.
 

Dubious

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so out of many, I listed one claims to be Kashmiri, what about the rest?
it takes 1 rotten apple...That 1 who literally made fortunes in UK...and it is not just him, his brother, his daughter...Like who tubber!

Altaf happens to declare himself Mohajir...Still insisting he is "different" coz he came from india... :pop:

The rest....are as corrupt as any other nation would be, no?

Those articles are not credible. ok I put up plenty of articles like that on this forum but i get told it is not good enough or get told off.
I wouldnt know I only respond to reports and dont hunt for specific articles :( Got no time :(

I didn't say it is easy, I tell you what if UK paks were an army some parts of kashmir, at least be liberated and there would be no nepotism in the institution. I have aright to criticize since they have failed so badly its mind boggling.
Sure you do. Criticizing is all people do on this forum! I am yet to see someone get their sorry arse up and do something about the thing they are criticizing behind the screens about!

As for what you want...Pakistan wants whole of Kashmir to get a referendum of vote of where or how it wishes to be with or stay with....That includes full independence...The current system as by OP, Kashmir is already partially independent ...We dont have absolute say in it!
 

Azadkashmir

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it takes 1 rotten apple...That 1 who literally made fortunes in UK...and it is not just him, his brother, his daughter...Like who tubber!

Altaf happens to declare himself Mohajir...Still insisting he is "different" coz he came from india... :pop:

The rest....are as corrupt as any other nation would be, no?


I wouldnt know I only respond to reports and dont hunt for specific articles :( Got no time :(


Sure you do. Criticizing is all people do on this forum! I am yet to see someone get their sorry arse up and do something about the thing they are criticizing behind the screens about!

As for what you want...Pakistan wants whole of Kashmir to get a referendum of vote of where or how it wishes to be with or stay with....That includes full independence...The current system as by OP, Kashmir is already partially independent ...We dont have absolute say in it!

Many try to but fear they would end up dead or jailed or robbed and sent back. There are people who want to invest and bring machine tools over to build small industry. Thier are many but they dont trust anyone from pak too many horror stories. I know only one guy he somehow got to know the right people and made connections and now he drives cars over to pak and makes good money. He took tractor/digger recently and used it to build a road in his area.
The diff is crooks in pak take money out of the country and store it western banks
and buy assets while crooks from western world bring money over to pak.

One lone person like me cant do much, I have ideas plans, etc some little money but i dont have muscle behind me or group strength or connections.
 

Dubious

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Many try to but fear they would end up dead or jailed or robbed and sent back.
By whom?

Is there no law and order there?

There are people who want to invest and bring machine tools over to build small industry.
Use the right channels, the current govt is all for investments!
Thier are many but they dont trust anyone from pak too many horror stories.
That depends...Karachi is seeing light now so depends on how old the story was and does it still fit the scenario?

I know only one guy he somehow got to know the right people and made connections and now he drives cars over to pak and makes good money. He took tractor/digger recently and used it to build a road in his area.
If he can do it, there should be a ray of light, no?

The diff is crooks in pak take money out of the country and store it western banks
and buy assets while crooks from western world bring money over to pak.
Interesting...So far I know not any crook who brought IN money :(

One lone person like me cant do much, I have ideas plans, etc some little money but i dont have muscle behind me or group strength or connections.
Make connections...That is what will differentiate you and put you on the map! :tup:
 

saiyan0321

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Thanks for the tag.
No problem. wanted to hear your views

Due to the rather toxic and frankly distasteful nature of discourse that any posting here in PDF nowadays creates and my own draw down from an internet presence, will limit my 'observations' as under:
on and off days are a reality on PDF but do visit often. Your absence will only make things worse.

now now. I want to know full not limits. :)

a. Firstly, a very informative piece on aspects pertaining to the territories of Gilgit-Baltistan and other regions of the erstwhile State of Jammu & Kashmir under administration of Pakistan. Can call it occupied to politically present my own view and you can return the favor, but I hope you get the context of why I have taken this approach.
Thank you. Political wordings never bothered me.

b. Greater integration of the territories can not be undertaken by Pakistan without alienating the population of Kashmir valley proper. Let us be very clear on that. Irrespective of the narrative being pushed around on PDF and in Pakistani mainstream media, the facts on the ground are quite different. The majority of Kashmiris are 'pro-Pakistan' only insofar as to create a political dissent for authorities in Srinagar and New Delhi, but factually, sans the need to create a political dissent, they are equally against any idea of integration with Pakistan. The classical three groups of any insurgency - small proportion of pro-state, anti-state supporters and the overwhelming majority of neutrals, is covered precisely as pro-India, pro-Pakistan and pro-independence respectively. One has to be very clear on this aspect. I have been on the ground and have spoken to people, going so far as to proposing joining in their struggle if they can convince me on their ability to create a viable independent state and achieve security for the same (read Chinese claims, which have a propensity to arise from remote historical 'facts' based on someone roaming there few centuries back). They, of course, could not defend an independent State on those parameters.
hmmm. Very interesting. I have been also brushing on bhutan's modern history and the indian influence located over there and it was always stemming from the chinese unification program which saw tibet and xingiang become part of china which created fear amongst the bhutan ruling class. China is a factor in kashmir issue as well any independent kashmir will have to come to terms with a very large neighbor and a border with that large neighbor which will be very much undefined.

I am uncoming to understand slowly the dynamics of the kashmir events that are happening in IAK however the biggest issue that i have is that 70 years later we are no closer to solving this issue and if we become pragmatic there is absolutely no way civil disobedience or even a full fight in kashmir can result in its separation from India. India is home to one of the most powerful military in the world as well as a strong and stable economy and i have read enough insurgencies all over the world as well the concept of modern statehood and modern borders to understand that nothing short of complete disintegration of the indian central state, military and economy will allow kashmir to become independent provided we follow the concept that Asian states rarely if ever allow their territory to be taken from them. The question is if the two nations cannot snatch the others territory nor can those territory snatch themselves away then what course is left bcz quite frankly you may be willing to fight for your atoot ang for a thousand years and i may be willing to fight for my jugular vein for a thousand years but are those territories willing to put up with no rights for a thousand years. Who is Pakistan to condemn gilgit and AJK to no representation within a state that controls their resources nor rights in their territories for an offhand hope that may never come true.

I am not convinced that this limbo is a wise move and i am glad to see that such discussions are taking course not just in GB or AJK but in all of Pakistan. Cases are coming everyday and the government is under pressure to do something about it...

The question are we willing to accept the hostility of a region just for that.

The question is those that are willing fight for their independence will willingly come under Pakistan a state that they see struggling with governance?

The question is will those that fight and become independent will they come under the suzerainty of Muzzaffarabad or will they create their own state governed from srinagar or leh? being pro pak does not mean pro union.

Will we let go of muzzaffarabad where basically everywhere its written that its unsaid Part of Pakistan?

70 years separation is a long time especially with regions who may or may not see themselves as one nation.

c. The dissonance in the windfall arising out of utilization of the State's resources, wherein others are benefiting, sans renumeration/compensation, will be a situation that shall work against Pakistan in the near and long term.
Pakistan and india need to look into this matter with a serious mind. Even if LOC becomes IB with some easier movement deal then it will be fine bcz this current situation is simply no good. As i delved deeper into this subject i have come to understand that we have not been just with the regions that fought to join us.

d. Any unilateral action taken by Pakistan to integrate the said territories will only undermine Pakistan's case over the 'dispute'. With the GoI finally giving up any hope of a negotiated settlement on basis of Shimla Agreement after Kargil and Mumbai incidents, we have reached a stage wherein the Indian position has shifted to 'vacation' of said territories. The moment Pakistan integrates them, the equation changes.
this is perhaps the strongest argument against the integration of these regions especially gilgit baltistan but the fact of the matter is that an AJK solution like a separate constitution is not for that region bcz Gilgit baltistan for one joined us wilfully and secondly we got AJK to agree to it as well in the karachi agreement. Before the 18th amendment there was an argument that since the federal center empowered soo much already controlled th provinces thus such control on regions like Fata e.t.c was tolerated however after it the provinces have been empowered greatly and many of these federal regions started movements for greater control of their territory. One of the basic argument for FATA province was exactly greater autonomy they would have as a province rather than as districts within KPK.

We saw the call for such autonomy in AJK and it passed the 13th amendment and we also see GB fighting for such a thing but even AJK with all its autonomy is still restricted with representation like in IRSA or other departments...

My point is how long will this continue. What time frame should we give them. Decade, century. They want their rights now!! we cant ignore them just bcz it will weaken our position in the dispute which quite frankly will not change in any sense...

The supreme court and the govt is also coming to terms with this...

Recently the supreme court passed an order that GB comes under its jurisdiction and that the people over there have all the rights allotted within the constitution of Pakistan and that a refrendum should be held within 14 days...

We need to end this dispute bcz this dispute between two powers is crushing the people of the region even if hard drastic decisions must be taken otherwise what is a request today will become a demand tomorrow and a demand tomorrow will become call for separation.
 

VCheng

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Any unilateral action taken by Pakistan to integrate the said territories will only undermine Pakistan's case over the 'dispute'. With the GoI finally giving up any hope of a negotiated settlement on basis of Shimla Agreement after Kargil and Mumbai incidents, we have reached a stage wherein the Indian position has shifted to 'vacation' of said territories. The moment Pakistan integrates them, the equation changes.
As I said at the very beginning of this thread:

The status of Gilgit-Baltistan cannot be finalized until the Kashmir issue is resolved in whatever manner between India and Pakistan. Any unilateral changes by Pakistan must be considered very carefully for any potential impacts on the status of its claims on Kashmir. Great caution is advisable.

That is about all I can say for now.
The only realistic outcome I can foresee of a former princely state divided between three nuclear powers is converting the AGPLs into recognized international borders.
 

Dubious

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