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Germany decides to buy F-35, in major reversal of announced plans

Ali_Baba

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Is FCAS dead on arrival?

I do wonder if Germany will try and go it alone on a new German FCAS? They are not getting what they want/need out of the current FCAS with France and they can build something themselves since they learnt alot via the Typhoon project esp the FBW. Germany will be going through a massive uptick in defence spending and they will look to leverage that to generate their own intellectual property that they themselves can re-sell within the EU construct at least.
 

ahaider97

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For the conspiracy theorists, Finland and Switzerland (neither parts of of NATO) decided on F-35 way before the Ukarine invasion. No 'plot' had to work to land a measly order of 35 F-35s.
The countries feel that despite its 2-3x per hour flying cost, limited payload in stealth mode, and half the radius of 4G, the whole 'sensor fusion, stealth' must be a differentiator for the non-NATO countries. This is a surprise given how Lockheed had to politically manipulate the Government to assure its work, including making sure there was a component supplier in every major congressional district. You don't go to such great lengths IF you have the best platform but they did.
Ultimately, what is strange about Germany is the rapid fire decision without a full evaluation. Switzerland/Finland took years to arrive at the decision. Germany must feel that if its good enough for every NATO country and some non-NATO western oriented countries, they should bypass the 2 year evaluation and go on faith that interoperability alone is a good enough reason to get it and they can easily afford it.
Yes the rapid fire decision came because of the Russian boogeyman

keep expanding Nato threatening Russia
Russia is forced to respond
Europeans get scared of Russia
Europeans buy weapons
?
Profit

There's no conspiracy theory here, the US demands to Germany regarding trade with Russia and military spending were a thing even before the current war. Trump's whole presidency he kept bullying Europeans to spend more on NATO., and the recent invasion achieved that goal. US military industrial complex thrives on war and fear.

Americans should stay in their own continent, the rest of the world can take care of itself. Leave Middle East, leave Europe, Leave Taiwan, stay in you own home. Your actions risk a global nuclear war.
 

aviator_fan

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Yes the rapid fire decision came because of the Russian boogeyman

keep expanding Nato threatening Russia
Russia is forced to respond
Europeans get scared of Russia
Europeans buy weapons
?
Profit

There's no conspiracy theory here, the US demands to Germany regarding trade with Russia and military spending were a thing even before the current war. Trump's whole presidency he kept bullying Europeans to spend more on NATO., and the recent invasion achieved that goal. US military industrial complex thrives on war and fear.

Americans should stay in their own continent, the rest of the world can take care of itself. Leave Middle East, leave Europe, Leave Taiwan, stay in you own home. Your actions risk a global nuclear war.
When the rest of the world was taking care of itself in the 20th century , it fought two World Wars. Limited to Europe specifically , the track record for the US interference is better.

Going outside of Europe, the constant interference elsewhere and dummy regimes since the 60s, support of Isreal and then Afghanistan, Iraq, the track record diminishes of course.

Germans had been evaluating the F35 for 2-3 years as well as the Finnish as well as the Swiss. Europeans have been buying weapons from US going back to the F104, to F-16s and then now the F-35. That has been the pattern since WWII, not to do with the current crisis.

Exercising industrial or doctrine influence is what all big countries (or those trying to look big) do: China does it in Africa with its industrial investment from railroad on up, and closer to home through Belt initiative. Iran does it in Yemen, Lebanon. Heck even India tried to do it in Sri Lanka in the 90s and failed.
 

ahaider97

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When the rest of the world was taking care of itself in the 20th century , it fought two World Wars. Limited to Europe specifically , the track record for the US interference is better.

Going outside of Europe, the constant interference elsewhere and dummy regimes since the 60s, support of Isreal and then Afghanistan, Iraq, the track record diminishes of course.

Germans had been evaluating the F35 for 2-3 years as well as the Finnish as well as the Swiss. Europeans have been buying weapons from US going back to the F104, to F-16s and then now the F-35. That has been the pattern since WWII, not to do with the current crisis.

Exercising industrial or doctrine influence is what all big countries (or those trying to look big) do: China does it in Africa with its industrial investment from railroad on up, and closer to home through Belt initiative. Iran does it in Yemen, Lebanon. Heck even India tried to do it in Sri Lanka in the 90s and failed.
But the stakes have never been higher than they are now, this time American exceptionalism can literally result in a global winter. But thankfully America is slowly retreating and a multi polar world is emerging.
 

Sinnerman108

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This is a huge mistake in many, many ways. Instead of going the sovereign way, our corrupt transatlantic apparatshiks choosed the way to sponser the american MIC. With our money. Surprise, surprise.

And i am not even talking about making germany to a top priority target for russian nuclear strikes with this complete retarded "nukleare Teilhabe" without a sense. This is the definition of an usefull idiot, but on the geopolitcal scale. Germany is going full retard, and not the first time ...

This has always surprised me.

Germany, a country who taught engineering to the planet
has to buy aircraft ...
what the hell is wrong ?
 

nahtanbob

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For the conspiracy theorists, Finland and Switzerland (neither parts of of NATO) decided on F-35 way before the Ukarine invasion. No 'plot' had to work to land a measly order of 35 F-35s.
The countries feel that despite its 2-3x per hour flying cost, limited payload in stealth mode, and half the radius of 4G, the whole 'sensor fusion, stealth' must be a differentiator for the non-NATO countries. This is a surprise given how Lockheed had to politically manipulate the Government to assure its work, including making sure there was a component supplier in every major congressional district. You don't go to such great lengths IF you have the best platform but they did.
Ultimately, what is strange about Germany is the rapid fire decision without a full evaluation. Switzerland/Finland took years to arrive at the decision. Germany must feel that if its good enough for every NATO country and some non-NATO western oriented countries, they should bypass the 2 year evaluation and go on faith that interoperability alone is a good enough reason to get it and they can easily afford it.
What is the choice for 5th generation combat aircraft ? The whole analysis or decision analysis is more like "are we better off with f-35s or not ?"
 

nahtanbob

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Yes the rapid fire decision came because of the Russian boogeyman

keep expanding Nato threatening Russia
Russia is forced to respond
Europeans get scared of Russia
Europeans buy weapons
?
Profit

There's no conspiracy theory here, the US demands to Germany regarding trade with Russia and military spending were a thing even before the current war. Trump's whole presidency he kept bullying Europeans to spend more on NATO., and the recent invasion achieved that goal. US military industrial complex thrives on war and fear.

Americans should stay in their own continent, the rest of the world can take care of itself. Leave Middle East, leave Europe, Leave Taiwan, stay in you own home. Your actions risk a global nuclear war.

If Putin did not attack Ukraine Germany would not be buying f35. Maybe Putin is a deep cover CIA agent ?
 

ahaider97

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If Putin did not attack Ukraine Germany would not be buying f35. Maybe Putin is a deep cover CIA agent ?
Ukraine got attacked not because of Putin but the American lies and enticement to Ukraine, so more likely the clown Zelensky is the deep cover agent here.
 

Georg

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the Kindergarten in this Forum is amazing...

Germany not only buf F35, they also buy more Eurofigther and heavy helicopter
The F35 are only needed to replace the Tornado that are able to carry nuclear weapons... currently the F35 is in the final stage to recive the premission to carry the nuclear weapons. Its cheaper to buy some F35 than to upgrade the Eurofigther for this rule..and it would take more time.

Ukraine got attacked not because of Putin but the American lies and enticement to Ukraine, so more likely the clown Zelensky is the deep cover agent here.
the amount of brainwashed kids in this Forum is as unlimited as the incompetense of the Russian Army displayed in Ukraine
 

WotTen

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Switzerland (neither parts of of NATO) decided on F-35 way before the Ukarine invasion

Why does Switzerland need a military anyway? Cheese disputes with Liechtenstein getting out of hand?

Seriously, any invader would have to devastate France, Germany, Italy and all of Eastern Europe before they even get to Switzerland.
 

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