• Friday, November 22, 2019

GE Engines for LCA MK1 (404IN20), LCA MK2 (414INS6) and proposed AMCA (414EPE)

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Forum' started by PARIKRAMA, Mar 7, 2015.

  1. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,873
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Ratings:
    +185 / 16,736 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    GE Engines for LCA MK1 (404IN20), LCA MK2 (414INS6) and proposed AMCA (414EPE)

    I am collating all the data on the 404 and 414 engine variants at one place so that its easier to understand and compare. Its a 2 Part Series. The first part is about the engine stats and performance (declared). The second part is a bit more performance details of 414 family.

    FIRST PART

    LCA MK1 Engine GE 404 IN20

    The F404 proves its versatility every day as it continues to power front line fighters for armed forces around the globe. The power behind the world's first stealth fighter, the F-117, many variants of the F404 set the standard for performance, simplicity and capability aboard a growing range of aircraft.

    F404-IN20

    The highest thrust variant of the F404 family, the -IN20, deploys the latest hot section materials and technologies to power India's Light Combat Aircraft.

    GE 404 IN20 Page 1.jpg


    GE 404 IN20 Page 2.jpg
    The F404 Engine | Engines | Military | GE Aviation



    LCA MK2 Engine GE 414 INS6

    For more than 25 years, the U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps have depended on GE power. Now, the F414 Enhanced Engine is delivering expanded capabilities for next generation combat needs. With up to 18% more thrust and twice the horsepower of its predecessor, the F414 Enhanced Engine is poised to complete missions on time and on task.


    F414-INS6
    The F414-INS6 single-engine variant is in development for India’s Aeronautical defense Agency (ADA) to power the MKII version of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft.

    GE414 Fam Page 1.jpg

    GE414 Fam Page 2.jpg
    The F414 Engine | Engines | Military | GE Aviation


    Proposed AMCA Offering (414 EPE)

    F414 Enhanced Engine
    With 18% more power, the F414 Enhanced Engine delivers what it takes to complete a growing range of combat missions and meet rising requirements for electrical power.

    GE414 EPE Page 1.jpg

    GE414 EPE Page 2.jpg

    The F414 Engine | Engines | Military | GE Aviation


    A Direct Comparision Among the engines

    Direct Comparision.jpg
     
  2. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,873
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Ratings:
    +185 / 16,736 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    SECOND PART

    The 414 Engine - Raising the performance bar


    The F414 Enhanced Engine builds on proven experience to deliver increased thrust for air-to-air weapons improvements, increased air-to-surface capability and enhanced electric airborne attack.

    Page 1.jpg

    Page 2.jpg

    Page 3.jpg

    Page 4.jpg

    Page 5.jpg

    Page  6.jpg
     
  3. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,873
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Ratings:
    +185 / 16,736 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Page 7.jpg

    Page 8.jpg

    Page 9.jpg

    Page 10.jpg

    Page 11.jpg

    Page 12.jpg
     
  4. Ind4Ever

    Ind4Ever BANNED

    Messages:
    3,580
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Ratings:
    +5 / 3,855 / -8
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Looks like except air inflow there are no major difference between these variants good if we go for enhanced engine of GE.

    OK NO TIME TO WASTE. ... Get F414- EPE for our AMCA . . . Deserves best one . Which is no doubt this is it. :D All three platforms will be operational with Same engine. We are going to master engine technology of the west very soon .
     
  5. MokshaVimukthi

    MokshaVimukthi BANNED

    Messages:
    1,960
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,731 / -18
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    1. AMCA has the requirement for having at least 2D vectoring.

    2. What happened to ToT of engine technology. I hope this engine is going to be manufactured in India and not the US.

    IT would be ridiculous if both our LCA and AMCA has US engines which can be stopped at any-time due to sanctions.
     
  6. migflug

    migflug FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    767
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2014
    Ratings:
    +4 / 1,522 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    we should get F414- EPE for tejas mk2 for its upgraded versions
     
  7. Ind4Ever

    Ind4Ever BANNED

    Messages:
    3,580
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Ratings:
    +5 / 3,855 / -8
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    I also have this doubt ... and can Tejas fly with Thrust Vector engine ? Or the Tejas body should be strengthened for it ?
     
  8. MokshaVimukthi

    MokshaVimukthi BANNED

    Messages:
    1,960
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,731 / -18
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Its under development.
     
  9. Echo_419

    Echo_419 ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    13,132
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Ratings:
    +2 / 9,552 / -6
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    Canada
    I think we should go with the Europeans Americans are not much trustworthy
     
  10. PARIKRAMA

    PARIKRAMA SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,873
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Ratings:
    +185 / 16,736 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Another option for AMCA - EJ200

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    • More than 1,100 engines delivered
    • Thrust range from 13,500 lbf dry to 20,000 lbf with reheat
    • Ideal candidate engine for new military aircraft market and for re-engining existing fighters
    The EJ200 is a collaborative engine between Rolls-Royce, MTU, Avio and ITP, who formed in the late 1980s as EUROJET Turbo GmbH. The technology of the engine makes it both smaller and simpler in layout than current engines of a similar thrust class, while giving it lower fuel consumption and an unprecedented power-to-weight ratio.

    The first series production Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft were flown in February 2003. In service, the EJ200 exceeds or matches the most demanding international standards for operational support required by the US, Europe and other International customers. The Typhoon flew operational missions over Libya as part of Operation Ellamy, totalling 6,000 engine hours without a reject.

    The EJ200 is a twin shaft reheated turbofan, with three low pressure (LP) and five high pressure (HP) compressor stages, powered by two single-stage turbines (LP and HP). The combustor is annular with airspray injectors. The engine reheat system features a 3-stage manifold system and a convergent/divergent nozzle. Engine control is by an integrated application of blisks, wide-chord aerofoils, single crystal blades, an airspray combustion system, and an integral Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) providing low pilot workload and comprehensive fleet management capability.

    upload_2015-3-7_20-31-43.png

    Length and diameter

    414 EPE - 154 in and 35 in
    EJ200 - 157 in and 29 in


    the difference in diameters would definitely mean more changes at design level itslef.

    on the other side, the similarity of common engine specs among LCA Mk1 and 2 and proposed AMCA means maintenance cross functional will be easier.


    BTW GE engines are suppose to be assembled in Chikan, Pune plant under Made in India. The TOT is getting discussed under the US-India partnership with heat technlogy. So probably we may see GE only unless, EJ200 also gets some base in INdia and puts a attractive package under Make in India
     
  11. Srinivas

    Srinivas ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    12,127
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Ratings:
    +8 / 14,794 / -26
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Going for Jv's and ToT is the best thing to do !

    India also needs a 5th generation engine for its AMCA which is expected to replace 4th and 4+ gen fighter jets.
     
  12. migflug

    migflug FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    767
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2014
    Ratings:
    +4 / 1,522 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    same is mark 2 .wont be ready before 2022 but could tejas airframe handle it would be the main qn.
     
  13. C130

    C130 ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,095
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2014
    Ratings:
    +4 / 7,358 / -5
    Country:
    United States
    Location:
    United States

    european engines cost more than american engines as well.

    the GE 404/414 EPE are great. the sanctions worry should be minimal considering the U.S needs India more than ever, and the sanctions was over nuclear bombs which the U.S would of sanctioned anyone over, besides the Zionists and Saudi Arabians.

    the GE 404/414 EPE needs buyers so I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S gives the green light to outsource some of building of them to India since the Super Hornet is being fazed out and to keep some jobs in the U.S going

    only
    the Gripen and LCA, and T-50 of Korea will be using these engines in the next decade.

    GE-404/414 is becoming obsolete for the U.S, but for India it's a goldmine.
     
  14. lasttry

    lasttry FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    330
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Ratings:
    +0 / 354 / -1
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    neither engine qualifies. ej is underpowered an ge is non tvc.

    in the current crop of engines, only russian engines have the thrust and the tvc.

    there is a case for using the 414 engines during development to be replaced by another engine in final config like the french did with the rafale.

    personally i think a new engine will be developed
     
  15. MokshaVimukthi

    MokshaVimukthi BANNED

    Messages:
    1,960
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1,731 / -18
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    You have specified the reasons why we need ToT. Our Nukes cannot be held hostage to Aero Engines.

    Considering the limited options available for 414, I assume GE will be keen for ToT as well ?