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From pk-15 , JF-17 Thunder and Al Khalid to fifth generation stealth fighter jet project Azm

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Aug 18, 2015
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According to international defense observers, Pakistan’s defense production from PK-15 assault rifles to Al-Khalid tanks and JF-17 Thunder is rapidly moving towards its self - sufficiency. In a short span of 12 years, the successful journey of JF-17 Thunder Block 3 from the launch of China’s joint warplane manufacturing program to its completion in Pakistan is a surprise to the world and awe to the enemies.

The JF-17 Thunder is talking parrots in combat aerial demonstrations around the world. Demand for Pakistan Thunder aircraft is increasing in developing countries like Malaysia, Burma and Nigeria. While the failed result of India’s 30 years of failed planning, the Tejas aircraft has become a rejected and flop product in the world market.

Today, Pakistan’s Armed Forces manufactures German-born G3 assault rifles and PK-15 assault rifles designed by Pakistani engineers, from automatic class light machine guns and heavy machine guns, manufactured in Pakistan’s Wah Ordnance Factory and armored in the international market. Exporting for use of forces.

India’s own journalists Rahul Bedi and Ghazala Wahab write that India made an Insas rifle after 20 years of operation but it totally flopped. The Indian Army rejected it with several complaints. The rifle was purchased by Nepal and returned with the Not Wanted medal. Then, nine years later, in 2019, Narendra Modi inaugurated a new Assault Rifle Factory in Amethi, Uttar Pradesh with a Russian partnership. But the factory has been shut down because the agreement with Russia has not been completed yet.

In 2009, the South American country of Ecuador purchased eight Indian-made Dhruv helicopters. But unluckily, four of those dysfunctional helicopters manufactured by the self crash master India crashed. For the remaining four contract was canceled and sent back to India.

Pakistan is building not only JF-17 Thunder multi-role fighter jets but also successful fighter training aircraft such as Super Mashaq and Karakoram 8 and selling them to Turkey, Egypt, Malaysia, Burma, Zimbabwe, Nigeria and other developing countries. Thanks to the profits made, the developing sector of Pakistani aircraft manufacturing is now entering the fifth generation stealth technology era with the new aircraft manufacturing program ” Project Azm “.

The world is amazed by the successful production of unmanned drone drones like Barak, Selex’s Falco, GIDS Shahpar and Jasoos drones made in Nescom Pakistan

Pakistan has turned the tide of the Indian Armed Forces’ long-held supremacy in desert and swampy sectors like Rajasthan by building state-of-the-art main battle tanks such as Al Khalid and Al Zarrar to suit its needs. Now not only the main battle tank but also the successful production of modern armored vehicles like Talha, Skab and Al Qaswa is going on in Pakistan. The nation is proud that we are now manufacturing anti-tank guided rocket launcher systems like Armor, Lightweight Anti-aircraft and Air to Ground Weapons like Barq and Anza in Pakistan itself. On the other side of the border, the Indian-built Arjun Tank itself faces strong criticism from Indian defense observers and overweight and other technical complaints from the military.

After the purchase one of the world’s most expensive Rafale jet from France, the Indian media and defense agencies act as if India has conquered the whole of Ladakh by defeating China.

It is a different matter that the Narendra Modi government is facing serious allegations of commission corruption in connection with the purchase of a 4.5 Generation Rafale aircraft, almost five times more expensive than the US F-16E and ten times more expensive than the JF-17 Thunder . The fact is that the Raphael planes will still need a year to adjust to the Indian Air Force system. And it is noteworthy that India will forever need France for the maintenance, overhauling, repair or upgrading of the Rafale aircraft.

The real difference between the Pakistani and Indian air forces is not the aircraft but the pilot. One difference between Made in owner of France Rafale and proud Made in Pakistan JF-17 is that they give an award to Abhinandan who lost the plane and praised the cup of tea from shooters. And we give medals of bravery to those Wing Commander Hassan Siddiqui and Wing Commander Noman Ali Khan who shot down the enemy plane.

BY : FAROOQ RASHID BUTT

Your article covers a major part of defence production related to weapons, however there are certain aspects that have changed or updated in recent past. This includes modernisation of Navy, MBT acquisition from China etc. Most of the changes have been thoroughly discussed on the forum (PDF) already. The versus debate between aircrafts, tanks, ships etc has been going on since years and usually it ends with the topic being closed by Mods. A 1 on 1 comparison is usually difficult since the weapon platform being discussed has many other contributing factors surrounding it which can also impact its lethality as well as survival in hostile environment.

You will find Indian trolls in most topics who will try their best to portray Indian weapons as invincible and holding some sort of edge over Pakistani weapons, even if that edge is negligible and hardly matters in a combat scenario through force multipliers. You can either fight with their ego or let them dwell in their own imaginations, the choice will be yours.

My suggestion would be to visit topics in different sections of PDF to have an understanding what has been discussed and which parameters constitute posts that carry informative material for the readers. That way you can have a deeper understanding of all the weapon systems that you have covered in your topic. As an example, read updates about AK program or the avionics suite (speculated) of JF-17 Block III. The search function on PDF is useful.
 
Oct 6, 2020
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My dear actually there is a huge difference between model making and the real world of fighter jets. Narendra Modi has pushed the entire Indian people into the world of fantasy and dreams, while the situation is what a few truthful Indian journalists are telling here.

"India’s own journalists Rahul Bedi and Ghazala Wahab write that India made an Insas rifle after 20 years of operation but it totally flopped. The Indian Army rejected it with several complaints. The rifle was purchased by Nepal and returned with the Not Wanted medal. Then, nine years later, in 2019, Narendra Modi inaugurated a new Assault Rifle Factory in Amethi, Uttar Pradesh with a Russian partnership. But the factory has been shut down because the agreement with Russia has not been completed yet".

Please dont be fooled by your so called defence experts. This is not the world of dancing butterflies of Bollywood , in fact its the world of fighter jets of skies . . .

Stay blessed
I agree Insas was a crap but again you love cherry picking, this was the same OFB who’s guns even Pakistani soldiers of British Indian army used to fire during the world wars, just because of INSAS doesn’t mean all others are crap, this Ghatak AR is made by the Same OFB receiving huge orders from Paramilitary.
36BFC508-EC55-480E-A5BE-3A690FCD4344.jpeg


Plus you can’t compare a rifle to an aircraft, Idk why you all make fun “jUsT a MoDeL”, as if you make an aircraft then display models? Things take time, the models were of the frozen design and atleast wehave completed our design work. We made radar absorbant materials back in 1990s, the design is fully made by ADA, and the Radar will be an Uttam AESA GaN based. Engine will be a joint venture between GTRE and RollsRoyce/Saffran. Helmet Mounted Cueing System already made in India (TopSight-I). 3D Thrust Vector Technology made in collaboration with Russia. DAS is ready and soon and so forth.

we will have a fifth gen aircraft, and its stupid to say it will be failure, it is a failure for you, success for us that we can make an aircraft on ourown without any external help.

(Outsourcing components is not external help).
 

Marker

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If you think that you are equivalent of India in R&D then you are in fool’s paradise, our HAL marut became a reality and gave you a hard time in 1971 war.
In fact the reality is already published in IAF Official History.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/archives/OfficialHistory/1971War/1971Chapter10.pdf

Western Sector IAF Losses
1603293576176.png

19 IAF aircraft were lost in Eastern Sector.

For your info only few HF-24 HAL Marut were used and no more than 100 close air sorties were flown.

However PAF claim is IAF 130 aircraft.
 

Tair-Lahoti

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Yes you will always say this out of frustration, but the fact of the matter is Tejas is better than JF-17. Just because took time and lesser produced compared to JF-17 doesn’t make it failed.

70% of Tejas is Indian
View attachment 681328


View attachment 681330
All good things about tejas start and end with "will be". There is no achievement or capability mentioned in present tense.

JF block 1 replaced F7s, it was a better replacement.
Block 2 replace and supplement F7pg Mirrage 3 and 5.

block 3 is built to supplement F16s.

Jf17 developing as per the timeline and requirements.

If Tejas 1st version was of any good IAF would have replaced at least mig 21s with them.

They are still flying Mig21 for a reason. If Tejas are so good why squadron strength was allowed to deplete.

Ask these questions to yourself.
 

Marker

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Lol it all starts with this only, atleast we have developed everything, we are not under sanctions for testing nukes and this time a private company is indulged in this project. DRDO is far ahead than many countries’ R&D.
you always think Indians are nowhere, can do nothing.
Just wait and watch.
All critical tech developed and is goin
The design for AMCA is frozen, all tech developed and a prototype will fly by 2025-26.
Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) programme, which began in the 1980s to replace India's ageing MiG-21 fighters, till now only 18 aircraft are operational.

So far a total of 34 aircraft have been produced. This includes:
2 technology demonstrators (TD); 5 prototypes (PV);
8 limited series production (LSP); 2 naval prototypes (NP);
16 initial operational clearance production aircraft (IOC);
1 final operational clearance production aircraft.
The official Tejas government website lists all the TD, PV, LSP and NP models and their first flight details.
16 IOC aircraft have been delivered to the first Tejas squadron (No 45).
The first FOC aircraft has also been received and the second Tejas squadron (No 18) raised.

In short, it took about 40 years to produce 34 Tejas, under Indian LCA programme.

Whereas, Project Super 7 began in 1989 and first proto type of JF-17/FC-1 flew in 2003 and full production started in 2007. So far more than 150 JF-17 Block 1, Block 2 and Block B2 are operational.

Interestingly, development cost of this whole project was US$500 million which was divided equally between China and Pakistan.

At present 58% of the airframe is being manufactured at PAC whereas remaining is being produced at CAI facility, China.

You are claiming that 70% of Tejas are being manufactured in India.

PAC and CAI were able to sell Block 2 version of JF-17s to two countries and some more waiting for Block 3 production. How many Indians Tejas were sold to foreign countries?

Indian media, trolls and leadership are expert in creating a Bollywood style drama. Some years back Tejas was the center of attraction now Indian AMCA - so called "a 5th gen aircraft".
 
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Oct 6, 2020
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Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) programme, which began in the 1980s to replace India's ageing MiG-21 fighters, till now only 18 aircraft are operational.

So far a total of 34 aircraft have been produced. This includes:
2 technology demonstrators (TD); 5 prototypes (PV);
8 limited series production (LSP); 2 naval prototypes (NP);
16 initial operational clearance production aircraft (IOC);
1 final operational clearance production aircraft.
The official Tejas government website lists all the TD, PV, LSP and NP models and their first flight details.
16 IOC aircraft have been delivered to the first Tejas squadron (No 45).
The first FOC aircraft has also been received and the second Tejas squadron (No 18) raised.

In short, it took about 40 years to produce 34 Tejas, under Indian LCA programme.

Whereas, Project Super 7 began in 1989 and first proto type of JF-17/FC-1 flew in 2003 and full production started in 2007. So far more than 150 JF-17 Block 1, Block 2 and Block B2 are operational.

Interestingly, development cost of this whole project was US$500 million which was divided equally between China and Pakistan.

At present 58% of the airframe is being manufactured at PAC whereas remaining is being produced at CAI facility, China.

You are claiming that 70% of Tejas are being manufactured in India.

PAC and CAI were able to sell Block 2 version of JF-17s to two countries and some more waiting for Block 3 production. How many Indians were able to sell Tejas to foreign countries.

Indian media, trolls and leadership are expert in creating a Bollywood style drama. Some years back Tejas was the center of attraction now Indian AMCA - so called "a 5th gen aircraft".
58% of Airframe means 58% of the airframe not aircraft. Comparing a Pak-China aircraft to an aircraft made by a single country.

Compare our Tejas with your aircraft when you make one on your own without China’s help. I mean feeling pride that an aircraft made by 2 countries took less time and blah blah blah blah blah 😒.

0F3BDBF3-C878-4FA8-88C3-5D9EBCE86FE6.jpeg


Inducting a 3rd generation fighter early just to have an edge over your adversary’s later induction is the most foolish thing PAF can do, the JF-17 Block-1 is a 3rd generation fighter, Block-2 is 4th gen and Block-3 is 4.5 Gen.

so you inducted a 3rd gen aircraft early, so?
0667A430-08D2-4464-8D36-2643CEFA534D.jpeg

The reference was taken from Official History of IAF. This is an Indian Air Force claim not PAF claim.
Which claim that Maruts didn’t fly sorties, they rekt a whole pakistani tank formation during battle of longewala.
All good things about tejas start and end with "will be". There is no achievement or capability mentioned in present tense.

JF block 1 replaced F7s, it was a better replacement.
Block 2 replace and supplement F7pg Mirrage 3 and 5.

block 3 is built to supplement F16s.

Jf17 developing as per the timeline and requirements.

If Tejas 1st version was of any good IAF would have replaced at least mig 21s with them.

They are still flying Mig21 for a reason. If Tejas are so good why squadron strength was allowed to deplete.

Ask these questions to yourself.
MiG-21s would have been replaced if IAF had numbers, thats why they are scheduled to be retired by 2025.
 
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Tair-Lahoti

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58% of Airframe means 58% of the airframe not aircraft. Comparing a Pak-China aircraft to an aircraft made by a single country.

Compare our Tejas with your aircraft when you make one on your own without China’s help. I mean feeling pride that an aircraft made by 2 countries took less time and blah blah blah blah blah 😒.

View attachment 681488

Inducting a 3rd generation fighter early just to have an edge over your adversary’s later induction is the most foolish thing PAF can do, the JF-17 Block-1 is a 3rd generation fighter, Block-2 is 4th gen and Block-3 is 4.5 Gen.

so you inducted a 3rd gen aircraft early, so? View attachment 681489

Which claim that Maruts didn’t fly sorties, they rekt a whole pakistani tank formation during battle of longewala.

MiG-21s would have been replaced if IAF had numbers, thats why they are scheduled to be retired by 2025.
Are you serious?
Don't you know Chinese term 4th gen as 3rd gen and 5th gen as 4th.
😅
 

Adnan ash

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Yes you will always say this out of frustration, but the fact of the matter is Tejas is better than JF-17. Just because took time and lesser produced compared to JF-17 doesn’t make it failed.

70% of Tejas is Indian
View attachment 681328


View attachment 681330
70% of Tejas is Indian
View attachment 681328
70%.....!
Engine is from US
Radar: Israel
Gun: Russia
Ejection seat: UK
refueling probe : UK
Air frame: Dassault Aviation (Delta design)
any country willing to induct Tejas first needs US approval as supply of GE404 is in their control. ( as case of Turkish T-129 sale to Pak.)
 
Oct 6, 2020
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Are you serious?
Don't you know Chinese term 4th gen as 3rd gen and 5th gen as 4th.
😅
It is Pakistani website not Chinese
70% of Tejas is Indian
View attachment 681328
70%.....!
Engine is from US
Radar: Israel
Gun: Russia
Ejection seat: UK
refueling probe : UK
Air frame: Dassault Aviation (Delta design)
any country willing to induct Tejas first needs US approval as supply of GE404 is in their control. ( as case of Turkish T-129 sale to Pak.)
Why are you pakis so insecure with Tejas that you peddle fake info for exaggerating, why does it make you feel so much insecure.

The design is made by dassault wtf🤣? Does Dassault have patent for Delta design considering Tejas is a cranked delta wing design.

any country willing to induct JF-17 first needs Russian approval as supply of RD-93 engine.
 

Marker

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What about Your project Azm?
Pakistan will make a 5th gen aircraft by itself is a joke in itself😂.
Does your PAC even know what all is required for making aircrafts?
If you think that you are equivalent of India in R&D then you are in fool’s paradise,
What is the use of such R&D which results in failed projects - Arjun, LCA and many more.

Do not worry about Project "Azm". A project full of surprises for Indian Armed Forces.

It is well known weakness, that Indians blabber about capabilities of other nations.

Whether PAC know or otherwise will be evident when Indian create another opportunity like on 27 Feb 2019.

Wait for the very very nasty surprises..............
 
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What is the use of such R&D which results in failed projects - Arjun, LCA and many more.

Do not worry about Project "Azm". A project full of surprises for Indian Armed Forces.

It is well known weakness, that Indians blabber about capabilities of other nations.

Whether PAC know or otherwise will be evident when Indian create another opportunity like on 27 Feb 2019.

Wait for the very very nasty surprises..............
Just because Arjun is overweight doesn’t mean its a failure, your inability to make a fighter aircraft on your own shows your level of R&D.

Next time in 27 Feb like situations you won’t have MiG-21s for your easy kill targets😉.

As if all foreign projects have been a success... some are successful some are not, one fails only if he tries unlike pakistan and china busy reverse engineering and then calling it indigenous and made in pakistan😂.

you can’t even make a basic trainer for your airforce without copying🙃.

whereas we have been using indigenous trainers for a long time and only advanced trainers like hawk were license manufactured in India from UK.

20 Tejas are operational and 20 more are under production and deal for 83 LCA MK2 will be signed in December.
 

Green shirt123

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Rafale is quite a formidable aircraft..I personally love rafale.Moreover Tejas finally got FOC as well..But look American used to say that raptor is undefeatable..but we all know what rafale did with raptor.. similarly some Indian defence expert used to say that MKi is raptor of east but we all know that raptor of east can't do anything on 27 Feb..so one thing is very clear that nothing is invincible..so don't believe that we can't beat a machine.
Secondly I don't know why you people have obsession that jf 17 is not pakistani.bro it is a joint venture..JOINT VENTURE.Just like Typhon..PAF don't have billions like you to waste on a jet and after 40 years only having just 20jets..we need urgent replacement.so we collaborated with china..look what we have achieved..From block 1 which is somewhat 4rth gen to block 3 which is a good 4 plus gen aircraft..their is only one variant of LCA...
 

iLION12345_1

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The difference between Pakistani products and Indian products (actually relevant ones) is that Pakistani ones are used by multiple countries, do their job, are being mass produced and aren’t shown off at every occasion in order to get them attention.
Meanwhile Indian ones have to be defended by Raju and Pajeet on a Pakistani defense forum while their own Army, Navy and Air Force reject them and the world laughs at them.

The Arjun is a known joke on most military forums (apart from Indian ones)
The Tejas is barely in service, it’s just that Indians always equate “orders” to being “in service” by the time those next 83 come there will be a couple hundred more thunders.
Also according to the Indian defense minister himself, Tejas is 58% Indian by value. Not 70%+ like some Indian members are claiming. Which is about the same % (less actually) than The JF17 is Pakistani at this point. Not to mention one actually flies often and gets export orders and interest from other countries. Let’s not forget the fact that one Tejas currently costs the IAF about twice a Jf-17 and slightly more than a SU-30 with nowhere near the performance while the Arjun is a logistical nightmare weighing more than needed with an outdated gun and shell that won’t dent my Car let alone a modern tank.

There is still no doubt that Indias defense industry is much ahead of Pakistan’s but it is not progressing due to the copious amounts of corruption present in it. The only orders it gets are from the Indian armed forces after multiple rejections and that too under pressure to not make the projects look like failures. Meanwhile in recent years the “broke” state of Pakistan is making leaps and bounds to close That gap.
and if any Indian member (one that is actually educated about tanks, aircraft and their Specs and doesn’t pull basic Indian news sources at me or tells me how a rifled gun and HESH is still relevant in modern combat) wants to argue about these things then I’m willing to prove them wrong. Otherwise it’s all just flexing about nothing.

Another thing they like to show off much is how we need help with our projects. Not realizing most military projects, even ones from foreign, developed countries, are shared and Co-developed to make them cheaper and better. Even if Pakistan has to do it because it doesn’t posses the capability to make them on it’s own, what’s there to be ashamed about that Indians keep bringing it up? If it gets use powerful and cheap weapons then who cares? It certainly won’t matter when that co-produced weapon beats indigenous stuff that is crap. It also basically means that the next time we need to make these things we will have the capability to do so indigenously. Meanwhile India being some 7 times bigger has only slightly more progress. Isn’t that something to be more ashamed about?


As a side note: The Rafael is surely the most superior aircraft fielded among the two nations at the moment but that doesn’t make it invincible, when the MKi was inducted Pakistan had nothing to match it, that is not so much the case anymore. Rafael will meet its match in a similar way as the PAF deicides what the best method to counter it is. Indians can make as much noise about the 27th as they want. Wether we shot down a quadcopter, a Mig21, an MKi or India’s Air Force one, it doesn’t matter, at the end of the day they failed to achieve their objective and we succeeded, the news that played out on international media was that the Pakistanis shot down two Indian jets, most people don’t know what a mig21 or a su30 is, such is the state of today’s warfare. To the common man anywhere, Pakistan won by a mile. Now get off a Pakistani forum if you have nothing of value to share.
 

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