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From ancient Hindutva civilization to Kashmir, humanity and women are oppressed

Nityam

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That fiction was based on reality. Is remarrying even young widows part of Hindutva ? The Indian situation says otherwise.

Alternative to what ?
Let me quote you the Hindu scripture called Narad Smriti,

97. When her husband is lost or dead, when he has become a religious ascetic, when he is impotent, and when he has been expelled from caste: these are the five cases of legal necessity, in which a woman may be justified in taking another husband.

 
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Jackdaws

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Don't be so modest.

He clearly saw something in you that made him ask you to control Hindutva. He never asked me.


Since you were quoting FICTION to comment on reality, I merely did the same.

Why the confusion ?

RG was to show the alternative. Counter that juvenile post was not required.
Lol. You are pining for some love? You want to be acknowledged? Someone has daddy issues. Haha
 

FlashGordon

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With the arrival of Islam, the open Hindu society changed from being liberal to one who also had to hide their females behind parda / burka.

When followers of Islam talk about female freedom i scratch my head...Pakistan is a parody of an Islamic Country. Talibans and ISIS are working to establish what is prescribed Islamic State as per their holy books. No music, no dance, keep long beards no education to femalles, marry as many females , kill them if they are without male family members, if they cannot get witness to rape than it is no raoe, khatna etc etc.
 

jamahir

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What is Hindutva? Is it separate from Hinduism? Because my aunt remarried. So did my cousin sister. So tell me are we Hindus or not?
They could remarry because of progressive steps imposed on Indian culture by people like Nehru.

In the older days it could not have happened. There still are the widow ashrams in Varanasi. I quote an NDTV article from 2015 :
Varanasi: In all of the desolate, dreary corners of Varanasi, of which there are many, the worst are occupied by a community of women who everyone seems to have forgotten about. The widows of Varanasi may be 38,000 in number but they seem to have all got lost in the narrow lanes of the city, in hidden ashrams, far away from the minds of the policymakers. So when NDTV set out to look for them in the Prime Minister's constituency amidst talk that PM Narendra Modi may come up with a plan to have skill development among the younger widows, we discovered the state of neglect that they have been left to wither in. The local administration, instructed by the Prime Minister's Office, has identified a small group of about 5,000 of them that are under 40 who may get training from the UK based Loomba foundation.

We visited four of the many ashrams that house these groups of women - the Mother Teresa Ashram in Shivala Ghat was the first among them. Run by the Missionaries of Charity, we saw several young women at the ashram when we went in. But a spokesperson said that we couldn't speak to these women because they were all mentally disturbed. "We take care of them because they have nowhere else to go," said the sister-in-charge, "But they will not be able to answer any of your questions." Some of them crossed our path while we were looking for answers to what they needed from the authorities, but they only responded with vacant glances.

The Nepali Ashram on Lalita Ghat was the next stop for the NDTV crew, which was on the premises of well-known Nepalese temple. The attendants led us to two floors above the temple grounds which housed 16 inmates, the youngest being 60-years-old. When we arrived, Savitri Khandel was busy making diyas by preparing wicks. "I just make these because sometimes I cannot sleep," she told NDTV. The government proposes to enable them to earn a living when they have such skills. At the moment, Savitri Khandel earns only ₹ 40 for selling 1000 such diyas. When we ask her for a reaction to the government's proposal, she says, "As long as I get a place to stay and food, it is all good."

She told us about the other women who are inmates of the ashram with her. One whose mother had spent closed to half a century, while she looked after her, and then she came back as a widow herself and was living her. Another woman who was napping when we went, had been at the ashram for four decades. How do you spend the time, we asked one. "We wake up at 3, we go to the ghat and pray for some time, then we come back and eat and then read the Bhagwad Gita," she said. And that is the only routine that keeps the women going, day in and day out, month after month, year after another year, till the day they die.

"We come here to die, what else," said Punyakala, who seemed contemptuous and suspicious of any government scheme to make her work.

Maybe, it's the belief that dying in Varanasi frees one from the cycle of birth, but it seemed that these women had just been left, waiting for them to exhale their very last breath. The Birla Ashram provided them only rooms and not boarding like the Nepali ashram, and there was no help at all for some of the very old women. When NDTV entered the Birla Ashram, we saw one elderly widow struggle to put her clothes back on after a bath by a bucket along the corridors. Another woman lay there next to a pile of rubbish and utensils, speaking to us in English but refusing to share her story.

Maybe, it's because the story is too tragic to bear retelling like that of 70-year-old Krishna Devi who has again been here for decades. "I was married to a 35-year-old when I was nine, and by the time I was 11, he got a 'sauth' (another woman). I didn't go to my in-laws but I was widowed at 18. I spent some time on my own but a few years later, I came here," she said. Now she uses a stick to go down and shop for herself, and then cook. The Birla house charges no rent, but also has just one sweeper who comes in once daily, leaving the women to fend for themselves.

It's perhaps this dark corner, of need and desperation that 35-year-old Annapurna Sharma wants to escape. Widowed three years ago, she doesn't sport the short hair of the others, nor the plain white garb. She also doesn't want to live on at an ashram, even though she covets the laptop she got from the Sulabh group. When we tell her about a proposal to help younger widows, she said, "It would be the best thing and if I had money, I'd do that too."

Annapurna Sharma is now pursuing a Bachelor of Arts in Sanskrit from Patna University and hopes that it leads to some kind of employment which will free her from the widows' ashram trap. "I really want to be a professor," she told NDTV. Will the authorities wake up to her and her communities' needs?
 

jamahir

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When followers of Islam talk about female freedom i scratch my head
True Islam, and not the caricature promoted by the mullahs, is a progressive, socialist system. Women are promised great socio-economic benefits through laws for inheritance, marriage and other things. Please read this thread of mine 2015 which is an article by an Indian Christian woman who married a Muslim under Islamic marriage method because that better guaranteed her socio-economic future in case there was divorce.

Progressive laws for women instituted by the West only this century were inspired by Islamic law set up 1400 years ago.
 

jamahir

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Let me quote you the Hindu scripture called Narad Smriti,

97. When her husband is lost or dead, when he has become a religious ascetic, when he is impotent, and when he has been expelled from caste: these are the five cases of legal necessity, in which a woman may be justified in taking another husband.

Please consult my post# 36.
 

FlashGordon

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True Islam, and not the caricature promoted by the mullahs, is a progressive, socialist system. Women are promised great socio-economic benefits through laws for inheritance, marriage and other things. Please read this thread of mine 2015 which is an article by an Indian Christian woman who married a Muslim under Islamic marriage method because that better guaranteed her socio-economic future in case there was divorce.

Progressive laws for women instituted by the West only this century were inspired by Islamic law set up 1400 years ago.
I have many Muslim friends. I live, sleep, eat, drink with them...being from Bihar.

Educated lots are just like us or even better. But this is because of Indian environment and laws.

My response here is for OP and People who think religion is above everything. Islam has flaws. Other religions are working to adapt and change and bring laws to have 100% equality. I do not think Islam will allow 100% equality to their women.
 

Nityam

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They could remarry because of progressive steps imposed on Indian culture by people like Nehru.
RUBBISH.

Divorce and Remarriage take place because of break down of social contracts. Society no longer cares you live or die or marry.

In the older days it could not have happened. There still are the widow ashrams in Varanasi. I quote an NDTV article from 2015 :
More rubbish. Widow ashram in Varanasi is a Orphanage for old abandoned widows.
Please consult my post# 36.
Why ?
 

Mace

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The violation of the sanctity of Muslim women by the Indian troops in occupied Kashmir today is in fact a reflection of the ancient and perpetual nature of Hindutva. The history of society bears witness to the fact that Hindutva society has always been the culprit and murderer of the sanctified woman.The facts of the ancient and modern Indian Hindutva society say that even the dignity of their own Hindu women was never protected from their horrors. The physical and spiritual humiliation inflicted by the earliest Hindu society on the vulnerable is the black chapter in history.

What the RSS terrorists and BJP’s extremist are doing with non-Hindu Indians in India today or what the Indian army and police do to Kashmiri Muslim women is the worst state terrorism. In fact this is the continuity of barbarian humiliation of women, and it has been a part of Hindu civilization since centuries.

The grand Mufti of Egypt, Dr. Ali Juma and many other historians write that in the ancient Hindu civilization, women were given the status of slaves. In some of its sects there was no difference between wife and sister. According to me this civilization may have been influenced by the traditions of the ancient Pharaoh kingdom, the Roman emperors and Greek royal families. History states that Raja Dahar also adopted this tradition.

The despicable practice of having relation with one's sisters and daughters (incest) in the West is very similar to the ancient Hindu culture. It should be noted that after the legalized homosexuality, the practice of incest is spreading fast in the West as well. It was a sign of the perversion of its faith that one considered relation with his mother, sister or daughter as a duty and a means of salvation to fulfill a woman's basic need. According to the Vedic injunctions, women could not touch any religious book. When they were widowed, they were forced to live as corpses.

Eastern and Western historians prove it. In ancient Hindu civilization, women were the victims of oppression and exploitation of their Hindutva rituals. The historian Westermarck writes that it was a religious tradition in ancient Hindu society that if a woman touched an idol, the deity and sanctity of that "sacred idol" was considered "extinct" and was thrown away.

After the partition, atrocities against women by Hindutva continue in all over India and especially with Muslim women in Kashmir. The spirit of Hindutva's oppression of women has infiltrated the Indian Army in Kashmir. Muslim women are victims of the worst human rights violations by Indian soldiers and police personnel. According to human right organizations many reports have been released regarding the elimination of violence against Kashmiri women.

According to reports, Indian troops have killed more than 100 thousands people, including more than 1,000 women in occupied Kashmir since last 20 years. Women and young girls are being abused, tortured, maimed and killed by Indian Army and other forces. Kashmiri women are the victims of the worst sexual violence in the world by Hindutva elements.

The reports stated that since 1989, 23000 women have been widowed and more than 12000 women were humiliated. Reports of gang-rape of 23 women of a village in Kupwara district of Kashmir were published by human rights organizations. According to a news website Al-Qamar, Indian police officers abducted and desecrated an eight year old girl Asifa Bano in Kathua two years ago.

The South Asian Wire reported that the Indian military uses rape of women as a weapon of war against freedom fighters. According to Human Rights Watch port, most of the abuses occurred during siege and search operations. According to another HRW’s report, security personnel in Kashmir have used rape as a counter-insurgency tactic. The South Asian Wire reports that the pattern of rape in Kashmir is very criminal and cruel. When soldiers enter civilian homes, they kill men before raping women.

A scholar, Shubh Mathur, described rapes of Muslim women as "an essential element of Indian military strategy in Kashmir". Why all this atrocities and brutal treatment of women is continued in Kashmir? The main reason is that oppression of women, violation of women's sanctity and oppression of non-Hindu religions is an ancient tradition of Hindutva civilization. Hindutva also wants to suppress Kashmir's freedom movement through atrocities and state terrorism in Kashmir.

The mission of the RSS in India is to crack down on non-Hindu minorities, especially Muslims. The BJP is sowing the seeds of religious hatred under the extremist Hindutva agenda. And the Indian arbitrariness and law enforcement agencies, enslaved by the RSS and the BJP, are committing the massacre of Kashmiri Muslims and the desecration of women as their holy religious duty.

The oppressed Muslims of Kashmir are waiting for the help from the world of human rights activists and the international community.

FAROOQ RASHID BUTT


@FAROOQ RASHID BUTT saheb, time of dinosaurs has come and gone :disagree: Taka a hint and enjoy retirement in peace.
 

jamahir

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My response here is for OP and People who think religion is above everything.
OK.

Islam has flaws.
Sure, like private ownership of land and means of production, which is why I promote modern socialism and communism.

I do not think Islam will allow 100% equality to their women.
Islam promises more equality to women than the other religions.

Please read my linked thread.

Divorce and Remarriage take place because of break down of social contracts. Society no longer cares you live or die or marry.
Indeed, traditional Indian society sadly never cared whether one lived or died, hence the countless suicides here because of unnecessary and artificial socio-economic reasons.

More rubbish. Widow ashram in Varanasi is a Orphanage for old abandoned widows.
Firstly, why were those widows abandoned in the first place ? That does not reflect well on their native religion.

Secondly, I will quote from that NDTV article :
Maybe, it's because the story is too tragic to bear retelling like that of 70-year-old Krishna Devi who has again been here for decades. "I was married to a 35-year-old when I was nine, and by the time I was 11, he got a 'sauth' (another woman). I didn't go to my in-laws but I was widowed at 18.
 

Nityam

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Indeed, traditional Indian society sadly never cared whether one lived or died, hence the countless suicides here because of unnecessary and artificial socio-economic reasons.
Are you Stupid ? Tradition society stopped caring due to people like "nehru" who told them that their "caring" was regressive.

So now they no longer care if you live , or die or marry or don't marry. So enjoy the fruits of your chacha.

Firstly, why were those widows abandoned in the first place ? That does not reflect well on their native religion.

Secondly, I will quote from that NDTV article :
For the same reason anybody in the world is abandoned, because people stopped caring due to break down of social contract . Also known as "modern society" which jokers like you crave for and applaud.

Also known as "Modernity" and "naya zamana".

After all don't you guys consider "khap panchayat" regressive ? so when they go, institutions that govern social contracts also go with them.

So rather than whine, enjoy the world you have created for yourself.
 

jamahir

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Are you Stupid ? Tradition society stopped caring due to people like "nehru" who told them that their "caring" was regressive.
Right, sati, not allowing widows to remarry and forcing peasants to commit suicide are such "caring" acts.

For the same reason anybody in the world is abandoned, because people stopped caring due to break down of social contract . Also known as "modern society" which jokers like you crave for and applaud.
But why should anybody be abandoned ? Points to a broken society. So why don't you start propagating for socialism where humans wouldn't be abandoned for very avoidable reasons ?

Also known as "Modernity" and "naya zamana".
Right, Brahmin-led Indian society from "10,000 BC" was the height of human accomplishment.
 

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