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France to sell Egypt 30 fighter jets in $4.5 bln deal -report

Gomig-21

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Dassault Aviation et ses fournisseurs, pour la loi de programmation militaire (LPM), et, enfin, pour la France, qui revient en cour en Égypte après une période de froid depuis la visite d’Emmanuel Macron en Égypte en janvier 2019, porte sur la vente de 30 Rafale (18 monoplaces et 12 biplaces) armés par des missiles air-air MICA NG et des bombes AASM. Elle prend la forme d’un avenant au contrat de 2015. In fine, à l’image de 2015, les négociations ont été à nouveau très rapides (entre quatre et cinq mois).

En revanche, ces nouveaux Rafale ne seront pas équipés comme les 24 premiers appareils vendus en 2015 par les missiles de croisière Scalp et air-air Meteor, qui semblent donc toujours interdits de vente vers Le Caire par les Etats-Unis via la réglementation ITAR en raison de composants américains dans ces missiles. L’ombre d’Israël plane bien sûr sur cette interdiction. Enfin, il n’y a pas de compensation industrielle dans le cadre de cette commande. „Il n’y a pas d’offset en Égypte”, a confirmé le cabinet de la ministre.”

It's from the article.
The problem with this article, though, is this part (after translating it so most can understand it) the last few sentences in the 2nd paragraph is.....

Scalp cruise missiles and Meteor air-to-air missiles, which therefore still seem to be banned from sale to Cairo by the United States via ITAR regulations because of American components in these missiles. The shadow of Israel, of course, hangs over this ban. Finally, there is no industrial compensation for this order. "There is no offset in Egypt," the minister's office confirmed.

...is that we've already seen the SCAPLs in Egypt. So the veracity of that part is certainly, at the least, questionable.
 

Constantin84

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The problem with this article, though, is this part (after translating it so most can understand it) the last few sentences in the 2nd paragraph is.....

Scalp cruise missiles and Meteor air-to-air missiles, which therefore still seem to be banned from sale to Cairo by the United States via ITAR regulations because of American components in these missiles. The shadow of Israel, of course, hangs over this ban. Finally, there is no industrial compensation for this order. "There is no offset in Egypt," the minister's office confirmed.

...is that we've already seen the SCAPLs in Egypt. So the veracity of that part is certainly, at the least, questionable.
One of the rumours say that the UAE transfered 50 of its Black Shaheens (Scalps) to Egypt. But that's a rumour.
 

Gomig-21

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One of the rumours say that the UAE transfered 50 of its Black Shaheens (Scalps) to Egypt. But that's a rumour.
Honestly, I highly doubt that for obvious reasons. Weapons of that caliber and even smaller ones like the bullets installed in these aircraft are under non-transferable clauses in any of the purchase contracts UNLESS approved by the selling nation.

IIRC, the Black Shaheen was bought as the Storm Shadow from the US and is just slightly different in minor elements and is not exactly like the French SCALP of which apparently Egypt has bought over 100 of them? Correct me if I'm wrong I didn't look it up before posting. But I don't think they are 100% French-built SCALPs because the UAE got them a while ago with the US components in them even if they did get them from France. My guess is because the French negotiate high prices and are tough, when the US threw ITAR at the SCALP deal, the Egyptian military went by the contract and there was most likely a clause in there that if they cruise missile were not delivered on time, France would have to compensate Egypt in some manner. These contracts are serious business and none of them are taken lightly by any country and my guess is France probably doubled the original amount of 50 ordered at a very low price to make up for the contract timing violation.

The only other way the Shaheens end up in Egypt is for the UAE aircraft to use them while conducting missions in Libya.
 

Amun

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Honestly, I highly doubt that for obvious reasons. Weapons of that caliber and even smaller ones like the bullets installed in these aircraft are under non-transferable clauses in any of the purchase contracts UNLESS approved by the selling nation.

IIRC, the Black Shaheen was bought as the Storm Shadow from the US and is just slightly different in minor elements and is not exactly like the French SCALP of which apparently Egypt has bought over 100 of them? Correct me if I'm wrong I didn't look it up before posting. But I don't think they are 100% French-built SCALPs because the UAE got them a while ago with the US components in them even if they did get them from France. My guess is because the French negotiate high prices and are tough, when the US threw ITAR at the SCALP deal, the Egyptian military went by the contract and there was most likely a clause in there that if they cruise missile were not delivered on time, France would have to compensate Egypt in some manner. These contracts are serious business and none of them are taken lightly by any country and my guess is France probably doubled the original amount of 50 ordered at a very low price to make up for the contract timing violation.

The only other way the Shaheens end up in Egypt is for the UAE aircraft to use them while conducting missions in Libya.
How are you my brother... how are you guys @The SC @Philip the Arab:yahoo:

Egypt received at least 100 SCALPS
 

Ali_Baba

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How are you my brother... how are you guys @The SC @Philip the Arab:yahoo:

Egypt received at least 100 SCALPS
But - are the SCALP missile GPS locked so that they can never be fired at targets in Israel ? Was Israel provided self-destruct codes for these missiles to allow them to remotely destroy them if they cross into Israel ?

What are the software codes PK values for meteor missiles sold to the Egyptian airforce compared to those sold to France or UK? Have they tuned down the PK of these export variants?

Has Israel been given the jamming codes for the Meteor missiles?

Are the Rafales embedded with Tracking devices that allow for these Rafales to be monitored by Israel at all times when they are flying.

Are the IFF systems modified so that they forced respond to IFF challenges with the speed, height and GPS co-ordinates of the Rafale when sent IFF challenge messages by Israeli radar systems?

Will the Rafakes send GPS pings to Israeli systems if the GPS co-ordinates indicate they are in Israeli airspace?

(yes - nice shiny toy - but given the vast number of emitters and receivers on modern planes and the associated systems which now are so software driven and so sophisticated and complicated - that being sure those back-doors dont exist is now impossible ).

Just asking 8-) .....
 
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T-SaGe

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Damn, how many different types of aircraft the Egyptians want to operate?😅
Considering that Egypt is already trying to keep two different logistic standards in combatant fleet at the same time, I don't think they will put a third in between. Probably the next step will again be an European/US or Russian manufacturer.
 

The SC

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But - are the SCALP missile GPS locked so that they can never be fired at targets in Israel ? Was Israel provided self-destruct codes for these missiles to allow them to remotely destroy them if they cross into Israel ?

What are the software codes PK values for meteor missiles sold to the Egyptian airforce compared to those sold to France or UK? Have they tuned down the PK of these export variants?

Has Israel been given the jamming codes for the Meteor missiles?

Are the Rafales embedded with Tracking devices that allow for these Rafales to be monitored by Israel at all times when they are flying.

Are the IFF systems modified so that they forced respond to IFF challenges with the speed, height and GPS co-ordinates of the Rafale when sent IFF challenge messages by Israeli radar systems?

Will the Rafakes send GPS pings to Israeli systems if the GPS co-ordinates indicate they are in Israeli airspace?

(yes - nice shiny toy - but given the vast number of emitters and receivers on modern planes and the associated systems which now are so software driven and so sophisticated and complicated - that being sure those back-doors dont exist is now impossible ).

Just asking 8-) .....
When they do that to India and give it to Pakistan or China.. then you can ask your questions..
 
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Amun

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But - are the SCALP missile GPS locked so that they can never be fired at targets in Israel ? Was Israel provided self-destruct codes for these missiles to allow them to remotely destroy them if they cross into Israel ?

What are the software codes PK values for meteor missiles sold to the Egyptian airforce compared to those sold to France or UK? Have they tuned down the PK of these export variants?

Has Israel been given the jamming codes for the Meteor missiles?

Are the Rafales embedded with Tracking devices that allow for these Rafales to be monitored by Israel at all times when they are flying.

Are the IFF systems modified so that they forced respond to IFF challenges with the speed, height and GPS co-ordinates of the Rafale when sent IFF challenge messages by Israeli radar systems?

Will the Rafakes send GPS pings to Israeli systems if the GPS co-ordinates indicate they are in Israeli airspace?

(yes - nice shiny toy - but given the vast number of emitters and receivers on modern planes and the associated systems which now are so software driven and so sophisticated and complicated - that being sure those back-doors dont exist is now impossible ).

Just asking 8-) .....
first of all ... Egyptian Army procurements & armaments authorities are not amateurs ...
bur let me get along with you ...
1- Egypt used french Mirages against Israel before .
2- Every single signal transmitted from the air craft is recorded during trainings
3- there will be a maintenance facility that will be located in Egypt for RAFALEs ( this allows Egypt to study & validate every single peace of the plane)

finally , I’m ok with that ( obtaining locally produced armaments is more reliable during the time of war )
 

The SC

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Egypt's access to the entire Rafale armament is a foregone conclusion.. This is the difference between arms aid and arms from your own pocket..
 

Ali_Baba

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first of all ... Egyptian Army procurements & armaments authorities are not amateurs ...
bur let me get along with you ...
1- Egypt used french Mirages against Israel before .
2- Every single signal transmitted from the air craft is recorded during trainings
3- there will be a maintenance facility that will be located in Egypt for RAFALEs ( this allows Egypt to study & validate every single peace of the plane)

finally , I’m ok with that ( obtaining locally produced armaments is more reliable during the time of war )
You truly have no idea how sophisticated modern technology is and how easy it is hide backdoors these days.

Unless France gives you access to the source code, you have no idea what is going on with those planes. Dont kid yourself .. "validating" the plane means nothing if you dont have access to the source code.

You can take you iphone or android phone apart and validate it all day long, but that will tell you nothing about the backdoors on your phone...

The Mirages you used before were mechanica planes, the Rafale is a software plane. Big difference.

Monitoring signals means nothing, and shows your lack of understanding of modern systems.
 

The SC

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You truly have no idea how sophisticated modern technology is and how easy it is hide backdoors these days.

Unless France gives you access to the source code, you have no idea what is going on with those planes. Dont kid yourself .. "validating" the plane means nothing if you dont have access to the source code.

You can take you iphone or android phone apart and validate it all day long, but that will tell you nothing about the backdoors on your phone...

The Mirages you used before were mechanica planes, the Rafale is a software plane. Big difference.

Monitoring signals means nothing, and shows your lack of understanding of modern systems.
Guess you mean Egypt shouldn't have concluded this deal?

Then every F-16, Eurofighter and every western weapon has backdoors to nullify its effects at will?

This backdoor thing has been debated to death here on PDF mostly concerning the Pakistani F-16..

Conclusion: there are no backdoors..
 

Gomig-21

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But - are the SCALP missile GPS locked so that they can never be fired at targets in Israel ? Was Israel provided self-destruct codes for these missiles to allow them to remotely destroy them if they cross into Israel ?
:lol: "GPS locked?" Is that a term you just came up with? In order to do that, if it's even possible, you have to have all the information from not only the GPS components in the SCALPs, you have to have access to which ever satellite is being used (impossible to do) with these PLUS, there are other ways to fire them onto target that are a little bit harder without using GPS signaling. So not sure where you got that idea from that they can do that, can you provide a source?

What are the software codes PK values for meteor missiles sold to the Egyptian airforce compared to those sold to France or UK? Have they tuned down the PK of these export variants?
PK values for the Meteor missile is a standard number that doesn't change. Another one of those made-up shakbigaboulis you just came up with? :lol: When we test a missile or two at the advertised ranges and at capable targets and find out its performance has been compromised, do you realize how much trouble France is in? We'll get into that when we talk about Saudi Arabia's Meteors.

Has Israel been given the jamming codes for the Meteor missiles?
That's the stuff of movies, man. Besides, here's something that you probably don't know - Saudi Arabia just bought 20 missiles only because they wanted to find out if they are truly as good as advertised and they're hiring the best of the best to sift through them (most likely German and Italian engineers from what I hears) and see if there has been and doodoo diddiling done to them or are they the full gammet Meteors before they go ahead and purchase a large batch. And you're aware of with Saudiya whish will share all its findings with Egypt as the latter does its own investigation.

Reminds me of that silly kill switch some goofball came out with and when I asked a former F-15 pilot if there was any truth to that, he laughed and said "no way" and he elaborated that if that ever happens, and somehow the us pushes some magical button and causes an Egyptian F-16 to nosedive into the ground and lt's later found out that this would happen to several or many jets since there won't be just one attacking, and all this news comes out, the US will be eaten alive by the international community and NO ONE will ever buy a single export model from the US. Think of the consequences of such phantom foolishness.

Are the Rafales embedded with Tracking devices that allow for these Rafales to be monitored by Israel at all times when they are flying.
Tracking devices are easy to find if there is any truth to that with all the new anti tracking technology out there that you would hardly need to look far to find them. What is this, Lojak car theft device LOL. Come on, man, give us a little more credit than that. Look at how huge the antennas have to be on even Pakistani Rose Mirages to send whatever signal they need to send with it and you think a device that cant be obviously noticed is going to be instilled on our aircraft that can be detected at 800 km and 35,000 feet. You guys playing too many video games lol.

Are the IFF systems modified so that they forced respond to IFF challenges with the speed, height and GPS co-ordinates of the Rafale when sent IFF challenge messages by Israeli radar systems?
Israeli is the least of our concern. The last time we fought them we gave them a spanking they'll never want to see again so they want this peace to last and that's why they fought to stop the sale of this missile along with the US and in record time a deal was struck and your telling me they compromised the missiles. Come on, man, again, I think you just watched that movie "The International" lol

We have our own, newly developed data sharing system that includes IFF signaling off the RDE2 AESA radar that changes frequencies very fast and is impossible to jam or locate. It's ok, people can think the EGY army is dumb because that actually works to our advantage.

Will the Rafakes send GPS pings to Israeli systems if the GPS co-ordinates indicate they are in Israeli airspace?
[/QUOTe/]

Nope, only to radars and SPECTRA will make a mess of that. That's one of the many beauties of the Rafale. Spectra EW and fusion cockpit will create havoc to any enemy except the French and other Rafale users.

ourrepationship
(yes - nice shiny toy - but given the vast number of emitters and receivers on modern planes and the associated systems which now are so software driven and so sophisticated and complicated - that being sure those back-doors dont exist is now impossible ).

Just asking 8-) .....
No it isn't. It's the opposite as the speed of changing frequencies and secured data sharing makes it much harder. This is not like me or you hacking each other's computers.
 
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