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France - Pakistan , Avionics & possibly Plane deal revival, Post cancellation of MRCA

ACE OF THE AIR

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French have washed their hands completely off Pakistani aviation market. I will be surprised if Pakistan makes a big ticket purchase from France even in the distant future.
French can never be trusted.

The French are desperate to sell their stuff to PAF. PAF has options and is trying get the best. Rafales, EFT, SU-35, J-10 are available.

PAF know that they do not want to have only Chinese options because then the western set up would be a total waist which has been maintained and upgraded for the past 70 years.
 

MastanKhan

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The French are desperate to sell their stuff to PAF. PAF has options and is trying get the best. Rafales, EFT, SU-35, J-10 are available.

PAF know that they do not want to have only Chinese options because then the western set up would be a total waist which has been maintained and upgraded for the past 70 years.
Hi Ace,

Please allow me to disagree. At this time the French are not desperate for a sale---.

The statements coming out from paf show desperation. They are bad sales people.

Paf should cancel the F16's and go for the Rafales----5+5+5+5+5+5.

Now this would ease the sale of the gizmos for the JF17----.

Now as the potency of the JF17 has gone way beyond its current status after the french package---you will have more buyers in the middle east and north africa---.

So---raise the profit margin by 5-10 million dollars---that would subsidize some of the cost of the Rafales.

Now for the JF 17---if the current level of threat it poses on a scale of 1---10 is 5---after the french package---it would be around 8---which is a massive jump in capability---the multiplier effect of the higher technology would give it a massive boost in performance and utility.
 

Immortan.Joe

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This thread has became pointless (though there was never a point in this thread to begin with) as Rafale deal for off the shelf planes has been finalized toay, and further 90+ ones for MII is in negotiation.

Pakistan should try Italy for avionics. India has bad relation with Italy atm.
 

Zain Malik

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Hi Ace,

Please allow me to disagree. At this time the French are not desperate for a sale---.

The statements coming out from paf show desperation. They are bad sales people.

Paf should cancel the F16's and go for the Rafales----5+5+5+5+5+5.

Now this would ease the sale of the gizmos for the JF17----.

Now as the potency of the JF17 has gone way beyond its current status after the french package---you will have more buyers in the middle east and north africa---.

So---raise the profit margin by 5-10 million dollars---that would subsidize some of the cost of the Rafales.

Now for the JF 17---if the current level of threat it poses on a scale of 1---10 is 5---after the french package---it would be around 8---which is a massive jump in capability---the multiplier effect of the higher technology would give it a massive boost in performance and utility.
MMRCA is finalized.....Then now.....????
 

Tps43

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I think now usa has got no other option for their f 16 rathar sell them to pakistan in the same blk52 configration.
 

monitor

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after the finalization of the initial 36 Rafale for 8.8 billion dollar its clear any hints by France to sell avionics or any weapons to Pakistan was just to create pressure on India to accelerate the much delayed deal .
 

The Sandman

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Hi,

Well---then maybe---the paf needs to put a gun to its head and just pull the trigger:lol:----just kidding.

So---is there an exclusion that france won't sell to pakistan?
Maybe now PAF will think about EFT or other jets (j10 etc) because EFT is expensive too and i don't think now france will give us the avionics esp after the finalization of this deal what do you think?
 

ACE OF THE AIR

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Hi Ace,

Please allow me to disagree. At this time the French are not desperate for a sale---.

The statements coming out from paf show desperation. They are bad sales people.

Paf should cancel the F16's and go for the Rafales----5+5+5+5+5+5.

Now this would ease the sale of the gizmos for the JF17----.

Now as the potency of the JF17 has gone way beyond its current status after the french package---you will have more buyers in the middle east and north africa---.

So---raise the profit margin by 5-10 million dollars---that would subsidize some of the cost of the Rafales.

Now for the JF 17---if the current level of threat it poses on a scale of 1---10 is 5---after the french package---it would be around 8---which is a massive jump in capability---the multiplier effect of the higher technology would give it a massive boost in performance and utility.
Hi,
Thanks for your post.
The solution of getting 5+5+5+ and so on does not work in the interest because the establishment cost would go out the roof. Where as this can work perfectly well for the F-16's or the F-15's if PAF is able to get them.

France has always been supplying equipment to both sides and earned huge profits by doing so, because they knew that if they do this their economy would flourish.

You are absolutely correct that the potential buyers for the JF-17 would love to have French weapons as most of them are or have been operating French aircraft.

There are potentially many alternate solutions available for enhancement of JF-17 like the high end low cost solution can be found by getting involved with South African companies. But if PAF would like to bring the JF-17 in the next tear i.e F-16 block 61 then it must go ahead with the European stuff. This could be working with one supplier like the French or select though various contenders to form some thing that is entirely unique to the JF-17.

If you recall in the JF-17 thread number 1 there was a post which said the avionic package for the JF-17 is modeled on the SAAB Grepin. If indeed this is true then it could be possible to start some thing with them. This would also increase the threat close to the 8 you have mentioned with the French.

Still the contract between India and France is unclear so we would have to wait on how things are going to go about the JF-17 and France. The French are however making certain other products that the Indians are not going for in the Rafales so those might end up in the hands of PAF.

The reason why the French are desperate to sell to Pakistan is because they have lost a great deal of the market. The Air Forces in the Middle East are not interested in purchasing the Rafales because they know that Pakistan Air Force pilots and Technicians on deputation would be sanctioned by the French not to allow these personnel close to the aircraft. This would be similar to what US said to UAE when they F-16 blk 60's were ordered. At this stage the F-16's were supposed to end and be replaced by the F-35's hence the sanction would not have lost a big market share. But it is a different story for the French Rafales.

The million dollar question is Indian able to order enough aircraft that the French can afford to lose out on the Middle East?

Maybe now PAF will think about EFT or other jets (j10 etc) because EFT is expensive too and i don't think now france will give us the avionics esp after the finalization of this deal what do you think?
EFT is a good aircraft unfortunately for PAF it would a very difficult to get all the parties on one page. Moreover there are reports that the Israeli Defence industries are also involved in various technology which PAF would not be willing to have.
Still it could be part of PAF...
 

WAR-rior

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Indian attempt to steal key technology from Rival planes from various countries , also known as the MRCA Project Bit the Dust , started in 2001 , officially the paperwork was released in 2007

For 7 years India wasted large organizations time by their "study" , or perhaps covert viewing emerging planes so the knowledge can be stolen for design of their own Tejas

However , after long turn around finally they cancelled the deal, once enough knowledge was stolen by scientist etc

In 2010, 1.5 Billion deal between Pakistan - France was delayed due to pressure
However since then Pakistan have gone to make 82 jf17 Thunder.

Now focus has shifted back to Pakistan - French relations

To revive deals to provide Block 4 upgrades on Thunder (None Export Version), or perhaps even bring Rafale to Table for Pakistan, which was already appreciated since 2006


Pakistan - France , Traditional Allies since 70s have maintained trust worthy business and human relations

  • France providing Mirage for Pakistani Airforce
  • French also stepped it up when Pakistan was sanctioned to give us Mirage ROSE project
  • Who can forget the Great AGOSTA project with Transfer of Technology, which put Pakistan's navy on Map
  • The Mirage Rebuilt Factor is a shinning example of Cooperation between French - Pakistan relations

It is hoped the two nations can once again revive the project of cooperation with regards to Thunder Block 4, or even Rafale deal which Pakistan valued greatly since 2006

It would be only fair that France helps us replace the Pakistan Mirage Planes 100%

Agosta Manufacturing Project:


Mirage / Pakistan : A Success Story spanning 20+ Years


Source #1
Fate of India-France Rafale Fighter Deal Uncertain | The Diplomat

French official told the Business Standard that if the Indian defense ministry continues to drive a hard negotiation, France could look elsewhere: ”We are currently building it for Egypt and Qatar, and we could have another customer in Malaysia,” he remarked, highlighting other deals. The same official went on with a particularly biting taunt for Indian defense officials: “Go ahead and build the F-16 here. You can build it in India and supply it to Pakistan
:omghaha: also.”





Source : #2
August 05, 2015

Confirmed: India’s ‘Mother of All Defense Deals’ Is Dead | The Diplomat

It is official now: The Indian government has cancelled its $12 billion program to purchase 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), according to Defense News.

“The RFP issued earlier for procurement of 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) has been withdrawn. In this multi-vendor procurement case, the Rafale aircraft met all the performance characteristics stipulated in the Request for Proposal (RFP) during the evaluation conducted by Indian Air Force,” a July 30 press release circulated by the Indian Ministry of Defense stated.

The statement provided no additional reasons for the program’s cancellation, although the announcement comes as no surprise to observers. Pricing differences as well as the inability to come to a mutually satisfactory arrangement over the question of technological transfers, as well doubts over India’s ability to build the plane locally, were the likely main causes for the withdrawal of the RFP.



Source 3: 2010
France says JF-17 avionics sale to Pakistan held up | Indian Defence Forum

France's plan to sell 1.2 billion euro ($1.6 billion) worth of military equipment for Pakistan's JF-17 combat aircraft has been held up, a source at President Nicolas Sarkozy's office said on Friday.

Newspaper Le Monde had reported earlier that France decided to suspend the sale of electronics and missiles -- the first section of a 6 billion euro contract -- under pressure from India

A consortium made up of French company ATE, arms group Thales (TCFP.PA) and missile manufacturer MBDA was supposed to produce the equipment, Le Monde said. Thales declined to comment.
Tumhara to majboot kata hai. Ha ha. How does it feel to turn out as a fool?
 

Zain Malik

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Maybe now PAF will think about EFT or other jets (j10 etc) because EFT is expensive too and i don't think now france will give us the avionics esp after the finalization of this deal what do you think?
WEll if the typhoon came to PAF......The whole ASIA has no fighter for its match.....But Cost......
 

Trisonics

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What happened to the much talked about Su-35 deal? According to fan boys here it was a done deal.. China was supposed to buy and transfer it to Pakistan, last heard on PDF.. any updates?


As far as the avionics for the JF-17 is concerned, France is free to sell to anybody.
 

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