• Tuesday, October 22, 2019

Four soldiers martyred in terrorist attacks near Pak–Afghan border

Discussion in 'Pakistan's Internal Security' started by Path-Finder, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. undercover JIX

    undercover JIX SENIOR MEMBER

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    and Pakistan makes armored vehicles....
     
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  2. BRAVO_

    BRAVO_ FULL MEMBER

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    Buraq is a useless drone, does it used in any operation yet???? but yes at 23rd march parade it is a toy for kids to cheer up, Pakistan needs a technologically advance drone with better fire power, but very sad incident, may Allah give the highest ranks in Jannah to the Shaheeds.... india is trying to use its assets to divert pakistani military's attention from eastern border to western, and in these areas its not difficult to find mercenaries
     
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  3. Signalian

    Signalian PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    How many US soldiers are in Afghanistan ? and how many PA soldiers are in KPK and Baluchistan ?
     
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  4. Starlord

    Starlord ELITE MEMBER

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    but not all of them are out patrolling right ? they must send teams right ? divide sections ? you are military expert not me , you can tell me better ..
     
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  5. Signalian

    Signalian PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Im not an expert. I just know a thing or two about Military.

    Patrolling is conducted by all units deployed in different zones, and they could be on rotation, its up to the Commander (Brigade or GOC) to give patrolling tasks to a battalion for a week or a month. Patrolling is sometimes also conducted dis-mounted, depends upon situation.
     
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  6. Starlord

    Starlord ELITE MEMBER

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    but how difficult it is to have a MRAP leading the convoy ? or have some armored Vehicles following it ? we could have saved lots of lives .
     
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  7. Arsalan 345

    Arsalan 345 SENIOR MEMBER

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    what is going on in waziristan? why we have failed on manage this small ptm group? i heard people talking about india during khan jalsa in muzzafarabad.now who are these people? they were large in numbers.what is going on in our country??
     
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  8. Signalian

    Signalian PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    do you have details how the ambush occurred ?

    share details of this ambush incident if you have any, so we can ascertain if the vehicle was targeted or were the troops dimsounted? was the vehicle stationary or moving ? how may troops in the vehicle ? sitting positions of the troops ? how many vehicles in the patrol task force ? etc etc

    do you have any details of this ambush ?
     
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  9. undercover JIX

    undercover JIX SENIOR MEMBER

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    This is what we know from the news source.
    3 martyred while fencing the Afghan border.

    1 During a routine patrol.

    Please tell us how we can avoid loosing our soldiers, martyred during patrols because of ambushes.
    We have lost plenty sons because of ambush attacks on patrolling parties and convoys and almost all were without armored Vs in terrorist infested areas.
     
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  10. Pakistan Ka Beta

    Pakistan Ka Beta FULL MEMBER

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    Salute to Shuhada .
     
  11. Signalian

    Signalian PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    There is no concrete description how the ambush happened and if the vehicle was targeted or if its destroyed or damaged or if troops were dis mounted. In order to analyse what actually happened and if it was the vehicle which was moving and fired upon and soldier lost his life while sitting inside the vehicle, no one knows.

    I have mentioned it earlier, its the job of the intelligence agencies to stop these incidents from happening inside Pakistan. ISI/CMI/MI/IB/FIA/Special Branch; its their main task to get a wind of whats going to happen and then take part in IBO's to weed out the menace ambushing soldiers. Police pickets, if in area, should have picked up the movement. There is Frontier Corps and also Frontier Constabulary deployed on border and providing security in cities. Pakistan needs to have intel agents on ground, mixing with population, reporting suspicious behavior, eaves dropping on calls, monitoring transport hubs etc. Plain clothed agents keeping tabs on anti-Pakistan activities and ensuring that IBOs continuously take place to break the back of enemies operating on Pakistani soil.

    Should the MRAPs and Generals be blamed if the attackers have remained un-detected inside Pakistan, planned and executed a strike and martyred a soldier, why ? Nonsense.

    Anybody saying that MRAPs are the solution, well they are not. Solution is not even more firepower through UCAV or Gunships or Aircrafts. Think it through: How did the miscreants give a slip to Intel agencies and Police when they entered this area to conduct an ambush. If they crossed the border from Afghanistan, how did they give a slip to FC manning the posts. Spinwam area, where the ambush happened is 6 Km from the Durand Line, which could mean that the approach path could be from Afghanistan. Its unclear if this part of Durand Line has been completely walled or not.

    Next, if the attack was carried from inside Pakistan, then locate the hosts(sympathizers) who gave refuge to these attackers. From where did the attackers get weapons from Inside Pakistan? should local weapon industries in KPK be closed permanently? how did the attackers traveled from city to city with weapons ? did somebody else provide them weapons ?

    These is COIN war, so the attackers were not wearing uniforms, they could have moved around as civilians. This makes it harder to detect for security forces but Local Police, Levies, Khasadars know the local people of the area. Any outsider from across the border or from any other city of Pakistan visiting the area could be identified by the. Why weren't the attackers screened out by these local forces ? The local civilians have seen few Ops conducted by PA in this area, they would have wanted peace now. Why didn't they point out ? could it mean some Pakistanis are sympathizers to these attackers?

    Now, i am not saying that MRAPs are not required, the requirement is obviously there but MRAPs cannot stop such attacks from taking place. Yes, they can save lives, but there is no guarantee of that also. Taking MRAPs are a measure of saving lives is a defensive mindset. First an attacker slips through Intelligence Cadres, remains undetected while traversing inside Pakistan, gets access to weapons, then takes a vantage point and uses weapons freely to cause loss of life and everyone here is shouting MRAPs, Really? Absurd.
    UAV's can monitor movement but differentiating attackers from civilians is very difficult in own terrain, unless attackers are picked up early while crossing the border. Movement from inside cities is hard to track by UAV's. Re-tracing can be done but that's done after attack has taken place.

    Lastly, LOC has been lit up by IA and in response PA is inflicting damage to IA soldiers and infrastructure. It doesnt take a genuis to guess that retaliation by India will occur in some other province of Pakistan. If someone thinks that IA will keep sending soldiers on LOC and keep taking losses, well that's not how India and its Military operates. They consider Pakistan a weaker country with Military that can be over run by them; this is their mindset. They will not take losses from Pakistan lightly on LOC. The attack on PA soldiers fencing the Duran Line, why do you think that happened ? So Pakistan Army shifts its Infantry and Artillery towards Afghanistan instead of reinforcing LOC. Why hasnt Afghan Army attacked Afghan Border like before ? FC has been strengthened with Tanks and Artillery which means ANA will get a very very bad thrashing if it tries to light up the Afghan Border. India cannot depend upon ANA every time to instigate matters on Durand Line.

    The crux is : Attack has to be stopped before it happens, that's how wars are won without loss of life or property.
     
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  12. Starlord

    Starlord ELITE MEMBER

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    Nope, but does that really matter bro ? either it was a IED or road side bomb or enemy hiding in bushes .. we need vehicles which can protect our soldiers bhai .
     
  13. undercover JIX

    undercover JIX SENIOR MEMBER

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    Agree with you and not disputing anything.
    Only concern I have is, atleast 50% if not more soldier's lives could have been saved so far, if MRPs and routine patrolling could be done with 2 or more vehicle maintaining safe distance to respond appropriately in case of any ambush. these ambush attacks are going on for so long, and we have not seen any changes or improvements for the poor soldier safety.


    We can always talk about what could have been done and what is the ideal situation.....until all other agencies and arms catch up, very first thing needs to be addressed is safety of the soldiers on the ground, and that can not be achieved by expecting and hoping what intel agencies must and should do.

    Provide them proper transportation, safety gear, No. of vehicles each patrolling parties, QRF etc stand by for each areas to respond, ground and ariel monitoring.....all this can be done with assets which we produce in house and we are proud of. What pride we can have, if soldiers loosing lives just because, we can not properly employ and deploy our readily available assets.

    Intel agencies need to work better, but commanders need to ensure safety of their soldiers under their AOR.

    Defending on side and blaming other is not the solution, or making excuses for failures.

    Indians know our weakness and strengths and they are using it, and we do not know?? that is why Indians are able to do whatever they are doing inside Pakistan?


    Thank you very much for taking your time and giving detailed response.
     
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  14. FuturePAF

    FuturePAF FULL MEMBER

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    We need thousands of MRAPs and hundreds of small uavs to keep our forces safe when they patrol.

    UAE bought ~4500 MRAPs for about $2.5 Billion from the US. Pakistan needs to see if it can get a similar number for its forces with CSF funds. Hundreds of scan eagle uavs or similar uavs covering the troop movements along side thousands of helium filled balloon uavs along the border will help keep a 24 hour eye on potential enemy movements.

    There are thousands of MRAPs in Afghanistan the US may have to ship back to the US. Pakistan should advocate the US to gift them to Pakistan for this very counter-terror fight.

    https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2014/09/29/UAE-seeks-4500-plus-MRAPs/4861412024753/

    Here is one Aerostat Balloon System for continuous but affordable surveillance
    http://www.skydocballoon.com/



    The Indians already look to have bought and are using this system or something similar to it



    BTW: We also need a Quick reaction force of attack helicopters and heliborne troops to cut off any escaping attackers. A few dozen of each should allow the force to be available all along the border, CPEC route, and other high threat areas.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
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  15. Dubious

    Dubious MODERATOR

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    INNA LILLAHI WA INNA ILAYHI RAJEEOON