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Former Swedish Air Force Flight Engineer explains how the Saab Gripen can Dogfight and Win Against (

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Former Swedish Air Force Flight Engineer explains how the Saab Gripen can Dogfight and Win Against (Almost) Any Dissimilar Aircraft
Dario LeoneFeb 13, 20200


‘Gripen first participated in Red Flag 2006 with the Gripen A. It was assigned to the red team. It scored 10 kills the first day including a Typhoon. The evaluation was that Gripen capacity needed to be revaluated’ Stefan Englund, former Swedish Air Force Flight Engineer.

The JAS-39 Gripen is the backbone of several air forces around the world today. It’s a modern multi-role fighter aircraft, achieving a perfect balance between excellent operational performance, high-tech solutions, cost-efficiency and industrial partnership. It is designed to meet customer needs by countering a wide range of existing and future threats, while simultaneously meeting their strict requirements for flight safety, reliability, training efficiency and low operating costs. It is also the first fighter system with full integration of the Meteor Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile. Built for full NATO interoperability, Gripen has successfully participated in NATO-led operations as well as numerous exercises and air policing assignments.

‘Gripen first participated in Red Flag 2006 with the Gripen A,’ says Stefan Englund , former Swedish Air Force Flight Engineer on Quora. ‘It was assigned to the red team. Reduced AWACS, reduced ground support. The Gripens connected their link systems and acted themselves as AWACs, got the battlefield awareness necessary and avoided all ground defence, scored 10 kills the first day including a Typhoon. No losses they remained undetected. One Gripen pilot knocked down five F-16 block 50+ during close air combat in Red Flag Alaska. And the Gripens never lost any aerial encounter or failed their mission objectives. It was the only fighter that performed all planed starts, while others were sitting on the ground waiting for the weather to clear up. The evaluation was that Gripen capacity needed to be revaluated.

‘And no disrespect to any other fighters, including Norwegian pilots because they’re just as well trained, but during a combat exercise with the Royal Norwegain Air Force, 3 Swedish Gripens went up against 5 RNAF F-16’s. The Result was 5-0, 5-0, 5-1 after having flown 3 rounds.

Englund continues: ‘During Loyal Arrow in Sweden, 3 F-15C’s from the USAF were intercepted by a Gripen acting as an aggressor. The result was 2 F-15’s shot down and one managed to escape due to better thrust/weight. To the F-15s defence it was on the Gripens back yard.


‘F-16 has a higher TWR [thrust to weight ratio], but one need to consider drag and wing loading too. The Gripen has much lower drag. And far lower wing loading. It can reach supersonic speeds on dry thrust while carrying a full armament of four AMRAAM’s two Sidewinders and an external fuel tank. Even though the Gripen lacks the TWR of the F-16 it can nearly match it in climb rate thanks to low drag.

‘The Gripen is among the most underestimated fighters flying today, during the Libyan campaign it came in as a tactical resource but very soon was upgraded to a strategic resource. Also here, no mission was cancelled due to technical issues on the Gripen. And no, it is not invincible, just underestimated. The F-15 can stay out of a fight with a Gripen, keep it on distance, BVR if they can see it and avoid the meteors, but it is not a wise strategy to engage.’

The latest JAS-39 variant is the Gripen E that is a new fighter aircraft system. Developed to counter and defeat advanced future threats, according to Saab the E-series is for customers with more pronounced threats or wider territories to secure. The E-series has a new and more powerful engine, improved range performance and the ability to carry greater payloads. It also has a new AESA-radar, InfraRed Search and Track system, highly advanced electronic warfare and communication systems together with superior situational awareness. The E-series redefines air power for the 21st century by extending operational capabilities.

The only plane that Gripen E should be compared with will be the F-35,’ points out Englund. ‘As the people describing F-35 use to say “They will not even know what hit them”. Gripen E looks just like a Gripen but it is a completely new fighter, with completely new features and capabilities more or less only comparable to the F-35 with the difference that Gripen E is not built with stealth technology even if it has a lower RCS than any other fighter except F-35 and F-22 and probably but not certain, the Russian and Chinese stealth. Gripen will be equipped with a GaN [gallium nitride] based EW-suite which probably will make it a ghost.’

Photo credit: MINDEF Singapore, Arz1969 (Ministry of Defense – Lithuania), via Wikimedia Commons and Saab


F-22F-35GRIPEN EJAS-39 GRIPENRED FLAGSWEDISH AIR FORCESHARE
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Old School

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What is the real combat record of SAAB Grippen ? Reality is very different than the mind of Greta Thunberg, the privileged delusionist Nordic. The usual purchase contract of SAAB Gripen also includes many unrealistic clauses. The suicidal hypocrite Nordics better concentrate on producing their hyper ethical anti-contraceptive products and leave the world alone.
 
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A.P. Richelieu

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Here is an entry from a Swedish Air Force blog.

https://blogg.forsvarsmakten.se/fly...9-i-england-meatball-ur-en-pilots-perspektiv/

Scratch two Typhoons!


Real-world tactical development of JAS 39 in England. MEATBALL from a pilot's perspective.

90409D0B-2871-4C4D-AE68-7D4FD3C9CD53.jpeg

The image is from Henry's HMD (Helmet Mounted Display) camera and shows a Typhoon in sight.
The image is from Henry's HMD (Helmet Mounted Display) camera and shows a Typhoon in sight.
The image is from Henry's HMD (Helmet Mounted Display) camera and shows a Typhoon in sight.
The fourth day of the joint exercise "MEATBALL-14" begins with a review with my opponents. I stand alone in my JAS39 Gripen against a rote Typhoon from the 41st Test and Evaluation Squadron, equipped with 4 ASRAAM's (Advanced Short Range Air to Air Missile) and 4 AMRAAM's (Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile, radar robot) where. Their only task is to get me out of the sky.

The threat may sound overwhelming given that everyone is allowed to maneuver their aircraft out to the limit with the only restriction not to shoot until we have passed each other in the air. In other words, we simulate that we have not seen each other before the meeting, a so-called pop up group within visual distance.

We do this to test our ability to fight close to multiple and superior goals. This in an environment where I have not had the opportunity to detect the opponent with radar or have been instructed against the enemy with the help of combat management. This scenario could be very possible in a severely disturbed environment with a degraded combat capability and a reduced ability to conduct air surveillance.

However, I have an advantage! I wear an HMD, Helmet Mounted Display and together with my 4 IRIS-T (Infra Red Imaging System – Thrust vectoring, heat seeking robot) under the wings, I can fire robots at almost everything within my field of view. The problem is that I can't look back and I meet two aircraft that have as great maneuvering potential as Typhoon so it is about seconds before either of them gets me in their sights and with today's weapon system I have very little chance of survival.

My only chance is to get on my target as quickly as possible on one of them, fire and then switch targets to try to do the same to the other.

We start from RAF Coningsby and set course for the North Sea and well inside the exercise area then we split, Typhoon towards Gripen. This is it! I return to the hunt for about 25 miles and lock in with the radar. I see that my radar detector indicates approaching enemies and lets my telecommunication system work fully to disrupt the opponent's aircraft radar.

The British come out of the cloud top and we meet at a speed of over 1100 knots and I let my countermeasures blast out of the aircraft (simulated for practice reasons) to avoid locking on ASRAAM's IR target seekers.

Maximum turn towards one target, the helmet feels like it is made of lead. I have no time, change turns and find the other rising vertically to convert his energy into height. He stands still in the sky and quickly gets an IRIS-T in company. The swivel shift back, after moving into the vertical myself, causes me to take an incredibly large angle change back towards the first aircraft. That means I lose all energy and if I miss now I am a winged bird.

Far out in the periphery I find him, I turn my head to the max and get on sight but no tone. For exercise-technical reasons, I only carry one robot and it sits in this maneuver on the wrong side of the aircraft and the target finder is shadowed by the aircraft body. I continue the maneuver in a role with the aircraft inverted and the target finder then finds the target. The battle is over in 9 seconds. But we keep in touch for the sake of the exercise and in case the robots miss then I must be able to follow up with further robot shots and possibly even with the automatic cannon.

Before the exercise, we have of course discussed different possibilities for surviving this type of battle and we are trying methodically to find the tactics that give us the best conditions for getting to the first shot.

We take the experience with us in the form of tactical instructions and regulations for IRIS-T together with HMD and also for system re-feeding. Everything to develop the systems and make them give us even better condition to be the fastest and best, which is the only thing that applies in this type of business. In addition to the operational evaluation, the methods are also extremely important and the training and amount of training is also accentuated here as all mistakes lead to disaster.

The introduction of HMD with instructions and training packages, as well as TTP (Technics, Tactics and Procedures, JAS39 Tactics Regulations), will join the action divisions in the coming year and will provide an increased ability and opportunity for survival for our air combat forces.

Mj Henrik "MONSTER" Lahti
DC TU JAS
 

dbc

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Here is an entry from a Swedish Air Force blog.

https://blogg.forsvarsmakten.se/fly...9-i-england-meatball-ur-en-pilots-perspektiv/

Scratch two Typhoons!


Real-world tactical development of JAS 39 in England. MEATBALL from a pilot's perspective.

View attachment 606373

The image is from Henry's HMD (Helmet Mounted Display) camera and shows a Typhoon in sight.
The image is from Henry's HMD (Helmet Mounted Display) camera and shows a Typhoon in sight.
The image is from Henry's HMD (Helmet Mounted Display) camera and shows a Typhoon in sight.
The fourth day of the joint exercise "MEATBALL-14" begins with a review with my opponents. I stand alone in my JAS39 Gripen against a rote Typhoon from the 41st Test and Evaluation Squadron, equipped with 4 ASRAAM's (Advanced Short Range Air to Air Missile) and 4 AMRAAM's (Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile, radar robot) where. Their only task is to get me out of the sky.

The threat may sound overwhelming given that everyone is allowed to maneuver their aircraft out to the limit with the only restriction not to shoot until we have passed each other in the air. In other words, we simulate that we have not seen each other before the meeting, a so-called pop up group within visual distance.

We do this to test our ability to fight close to multiple and superior goals. This in an environment where I have not had the opportunity to detect the opponent with radar or have been instructed against the enemy with the help of combat management. This scenario could be very possible in a severely disturbed environment with a degraded combat capability and a reduced ability to conduct air surveillance.

However, I have an advantage! I wear an HMD, Helmet Mounted Display and together with my 4 IRIS-T (Infra Red Imaging System – Thrust vectoring, heat seeking robot) under the wings, I can fire robots at almost everything within my field of view. The problem is that I can't look back and I meet two aircraft that have as great maneuvering potential as Typhoon so it is about seconds before either of them gets me in their sights and with today's weapon system I have very little chance of survival.

My only chance is to get on my target as quickly as possible on one of them, fire and then switch targets to try to do the same to the other.

We start from RAF Coningsby and set course for the North Sea and well inside the exercise area then we split, Typhoon towards Gripen. This is it! I return to the hunt for about 25 miles and lock in with the radar. I see that my radar detector indicates approaching enemies and lets my telecommunication system work fully to disrupt the opponent's aircraft radar.

The British come out of the cloud top and we meet at a speed of over 1100 knots and I let my countermeasures blast out of the aircraft (simulated for practice reasons) to avoid locking on ASRAAM's IR target seekers.

Maximum turn towards one target, the helmet feels like it is made of lead. I have no time, change turns and find the other rising vertically to convert his energy into height. He stands still in the sky and quickly gets an IRIS-T in company. The swivel shift back, after moving into the vertical myself, causes me to take an incredibly large angle change back towards the first aircraft. That means I lose all energy and if I miss now I am a winged bird.

Far out in the periphery I find him, I turn my head to the max and get on sight but no tone. For exercise-technical reasons, I only carry one robot and it sits in this maneuver on the wrong side of the aircraft and the target finder is shadowed by the aircraft body. I continue the maneuver in a role with the aircraft inverted and the target finder then finds the target. The battle is over in 9 seconds. But we keep in touch for the sake of the exercise and in case the robots miss then I must be able to follow up with further robot shots and possibly even with the automatic cannon.

Before the exercise, we have of course discussed different possibilities for surviving this type of battle and we are trying methodically to find the tactics that give us the best conditions for getting to the first shot.

We take the experience with us in the form of tactical instructions and regulations for IRIS-T together with HMD and also for system re-feeding. Everything to develop the systems and make them give us even better condition to be the fastest and best, which is the only thing that applies in this type of business. In addition to the operational evaluation, the methods are also extremely important and the training and amount of training is also accentuated here as all mistakes lead to disaster.

The introduction of HMD with instructions and training packages, as well as TTP (Technics, Tactics and Procedures, JAS39 Tactics Regulations), will join the action divisions in the coming year and will provide an increased ability and opportunity for survival for our air combat forces.

Mj Henrik "MONSTER" Lahti
DC TU JAS
not sure what you are trying to prove? That the Gripen is effective in combat - sure no question.
But it’s the same story in actual combat against other aircraft of the same generation assuming same level of training, capability, electronic and counter coverage,plus no tactical advantage etc..it’s going to be 50-50 for the Gripen vs same generation opponent. If you are here to tell me that the Gripen will decimate the F-16, typhoons, J10s etc in battle then you have do more than present some blog or quote some random guy from Quora.
 

A.P. Richelieu

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not sure what you are trying to prove? That the Gripen is effective in combat - sure no question.
But it’s the same story in actual combat against other aircraft of the same generation assuming same level of training, capability, electronic and counter coverage,plus no tactical advantage etc..it’s going to be 50-50 for the Gripen vs same generation opponent. If you are here to tell me that the Gripen will decimate the F-16, typhoons, J10s etc in battle then you have do more than present some blog or quote some random guy from Quora.
Actually I don’t care if you even read the post.
Until You prove Your claim that it will be 50-50 your post has no value.
 

dbc

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Actually I don’t care if you even read the post.
Until You prove Your claim that it will be 50-50 your post has no value.
I’m sorry did I hurt your feelings. :cry:
As for the 50-50 theory, it’s a well accepted reality for the men and women that find themselves facing a competent well armed enemy. There is no unique advantage the Gripen will give its operators over other 4/4.5 generation adversary with similar capabilities in ECM, radar coverage etc..

I suggest you talk to real combat aviators and not fall for marketing brochures. In my opinion, there is very little to separate the latest iteration of the Rafale, F16,F18, Gripen etc.

I’m sure you see no value in my post so feel free to ignore and get back to devouring that SAAB marketing brochure.:enjoy:
 

A.P. Richelieu

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I’m sorry did I hurt your feelings. :cry:
As for the 50-50 theory, it’s a well accepted reality for the men and women that find themselves facing a competent well armed enemy. There is no unique advantage the Gripen will give its operators over other 4/4.5 generation adversary with similar capabilities in ECM, radar coverage etc..

I suggest you talk to real combat aviators and not fall for marketing brochures. In my opinion, there is very little to separate the latest iteration of the Rafale, F16,F18, Gripen etc.

I’m sure you see no value in my post so feel free to ignore and get back to devouring that SAAB marketing brochure.:enjoy:
Again an entry making claims without any sources. Just ”your” opinion - again...
Way to go!
 

dbc

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Again an entry making claims without any sources. Just ”your” opinion - again...
Way to go!
Yes true, thank you for your input. Please return to your SAAB brochures, wake me up when the Gripen has any meaning full impact on a real conflict.

Plus your frustration is misplaced not my fault there are very few takers for the Gripen.
 

Zane_K

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What is the real combat record of SAAB Grippen ? Reality is very different than the mind of Greta Thunberg, the privileged delusionist Nordic. The usual purchase contract of SAAB Gripen also includes many unrealistic clauses. The suicidal hypocrite Nordics better concentrate on producing their hyper ethical anti-contraceptive products and leave the world alone.
Wow wow wow ... what’s going on here? now listen here Mr OldSchool.. not another word on little Greta..god bless her organic socks.
 

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