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Forgotten Hero of 1971 - Tajjamul Hussain Malik

IceCold

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I really felt sorry at the rough handling you got at the hands of re-writers of history who refuse to accept that their forces did anything wrong. My personal advice: stay out of these controversies. They will never accept any wrongdoing.

Incidentally, you were right about General Malik; he was not one of the murderous sort, but a proper fighting man.
Its like pot calling kettle black and yet you dont see the hypocrisy in your entire existence till today and how your nation terrorizes Kashmir.
At the very least BD was never a disputed territory and we acted in our own territory under the constitution of Pakistan. Whats your excuse?
 
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IceCold

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I don't know that we need or ever needed an excuse. Perhaps from your point of view, not from ours.

Bangladesh was a territory disputed by your own citizens, not by us, who rejected your constitution. Talking of hypocrisy, if what you want to see in Kashmir had been applied to your own territory, what do you think the results would have been?
Even if It was rejected, it was something between East and West Pakistan, that does not make the territory disputed nor gives you the right to interfere which India did anyway and than on top of that have the audacity to say " they will never accept their wrongdoings" when all we did was to manage our own territory and not an internationally acclaimed disputed one. And while you were at it when will India accept its own wrong doings for which as you said you do not even have or need an excuse?
 

Joe Shearer

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Even if It was rejected, it was something between East and West Pakistan, that does not make the territory disputed nor gives you the right to interfere which India did anyway and than on top of that have the audacity to say " they will never accept their wrongdoings" when all we did was to manage our own territory and not an internationally acclaimed disputed one. And while you were at it when will India accept its own wrong doings for which as you said you do not even have or need an excuse?
I drafted two replies to your angry post, and you have replied to the second draft. I find, on reflection, that it is as mistaken as the first was, as it addresses the symptoms and not the cause of what is being exchanged here.
  1. This thread clearly states its topic - Forgotten Hero of 1971 War - Tajammul Hussain Malik. It is not about the tragic circumstances in your erstwhile province of East Pakistan, nor about the present circumstances in Indian Administered Kashmir. Our exchange of posts on these matters amounts to diversion of attention away from the topic, and it is not correct. I refuse to continue on these extraneous subjects. If you feel very strongly about it, please feel free to start a new thread, and I am sure all who are interested will have much to say.
  2. Please do not take refuge behind my own post that you have cited; it was meant to advise and guide a member who was intent on driving home - again - a diversionary point. The language of my post might not appeal to you, but it was not intended to appeal to you; it was intended to persuade someone else that he was pursuing an unattainable objective in a manner guaranteed to create the greatest rancor among the readers. It was worded accordingly.
  3. You will find that my own views, with the exception of that post, are views on the undoubted heroism and leadership of this outstanding soldier, and not on any other topic. This is not the first time that I have mentioned his pre-eminence among soldiers in South Asia.
  4. My very friendly suggestion is that you should stop diverting the thread and delete your two posts. As mentioned earlier, if you feel strongly about the subjects that you have raised, you should start a separate thread on that subject.
  5. As for myself, I am deleting my mistaken response to you, that should never have been written, and that only served to encourage a diversion of attention from the topic.
As a senior member of 13 years' standing, almost to the day, you will recognise the application of the tag Verb. Sap. to this case. Verbum indeed is sufficient for Sapiente. The rest you will no doubt figure out on your own without my needing to add my little bits and pieces of encouragement.
 

IceCold

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I drafted two replies to your angry post, and you have replied to the second draft. I find, on reflection, that it is as mistaken as the first was, as it addresses the symptoms and not the cause of what is being exchanged here.
  1. This thread clearly states its topic - Forgotten Hero of 1971 War - Tajammul Hussain Malik. It is not about the tragic circumstances in your erstwhile province of East Pakistan, nor about the present circumstances in Indian Administered Kashmir. Our exchange of posts on these matters amounts to diversion of attention away from the topic, and it is not correct. I refuse to continue on these extraneous subjects. If you feel very strongly about it, please feel free to start a new thread, and I am sure all who are interested will have much to say.
  2. Please do not take refuge behind my own post that you have cited; it was meant to advise and guide a member who was intent on driving home - again - a diversionary point. The language of my post might not appeal to you, but it was not intended to appeal to you; it was intended to persuade someone else that he was pursuing an unattainable objective in a manner guaranteed to create the greatest rancor among the readers. It was worded accordingly.
  3. You will find that my own views, with the exception of that post, are views on the undoubted heroism and leadership of this outstanding soldier, and not on any other topic. This is not the first time that I have mentioned his pre-eminence among soldiers in South Asia.
  4. My very friendly suggestion is that you should stop diverting the thread and delete your two posts. As mentioned earlier, if you feel strongly about the subjects that you have raised, you should start a separate thread on that subject.
  5. As for myself, I am deleting my mistaken response to you, that should never have been written, and that only served to encourage a diversion of attention from the topic.
As a senior member of 13 years' standing, almost to the day, you will recognise the application of the tag Verb. Sap. to this case. Verbum indeed is sufficient for Sapiente. The rest you will no doubt figure out on your own without my needing to add my little bits and pieces of encouragement.
Dear Joe, while we were celebrating a forgotten Hero, a BD member started the usual rants of Pakistan killings and mass murdering which even by their accounts is highly exaggerated but none the less a topic for another thread, on top your wording and let me quote " they will never accept their mistakes" sounded exactly the way it was meant, now you are trying to take refuge behind saying it was meant for a different audience when all you could have done was not to say anything at all. Never the less Kashmir is your East Pakistan with an exception that its disputed yet i dont see the slightest realization in any Indian quarters. So imagine on one hand we have a territory under lock down for over 250 days by India and still going and its citizen is telling others about how we will never accept our mistakes, how would this sound to any ears and this is precisely the hypocrisy i was referring too.
Indeed you will come up with another equivocal response however saying i am only addressing the symptoms and not the cause is intellectual dishonesty by any standards.
I do not wish to derail this topic however things need to be put in perspective for all readers to understand.
 

IMARV

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@Joe Shearer A interesting and very telling snippet from OP below. I have always maintained that West Pakistani leadership(both political and military) betrayed their companions in East, and today try to hide behind 1000 mile separation argument to find some solace, though it was not a surrender in East only but a bigger one in West.

Its always a pleasure to see armies of both nation recognizing the brave.

For, after the fall of Dacca, our Senior Commanders in West Pakistan had the option to continue the war had they so desired. In the past in all our operational planning for the defence of East Pakistan, we had been saying, “If Indians Capture Dacca we will capture Delhi and that the defence of East Pakistan lies in West Pakistan.” When the time came and East Pakistan was occupied by the Indian troops, Pakistan Army in West Pakistan could not capture even Amritsar or Jammu. In fact they very eagerly accepted the
Indian offer of ceasefire. At that critical moment, none of them had the courage to stand up and say, “No we will not accept ceasefire. We will fight till such time we capture a big chunk of Indian territory, at least, the size of East Pakistan” Had they done so there would have been no need for our 96,000 prisoners of war to remain in Indian camps for about 2 1/2 years.
 

Joe Shearer

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Dear Joe, while we were celebrating a forgotten Hero, a BD member started the usual rants of Pakistan killings and mass murdering which even by their accounts is highly exaggerated but none the less a topic for another thread, on top your wording and let me quote " they will never accept their mistakes" sounded exactly the way it was meant, now you are trying to take refuge behind saying it was meant for a different audience when all you could have done was not to say anything at all. Never the less Kashmir is your East Pakistan with an exception that its disputed yet i dont see the slightest realization in any Indian quarters. So imagine on one hand we have a territory under lock down for over 250 days by India and still going and its citizen is telling others about how we will never accept our mistakes, how would this sound to any ears and this is precisely the hypocrisy i was referring too.
Indeed you will come up with another equivocal response however saying i am only addressing the symptoms and not the cause is intellectual dishonesty by any standards.
I do not wish to derail this topic however things need to be put in perspective for all readers to understand.
I have nothing to add to post 35, dear Sir.

Please let us return to the topic.

@Joe Shearer A interesting and very telling snippet from OP below. I have always maintained that West Pakistani leadership(both political and military) betrayed their companions in East, and today try to hide behind 1000 mile separation argument to find some solace, though it was not a surrender in East only but a bigger one in West.

Its always a pleasure to see armies of both nation recognizing the brave.

For, after the fall of Dacca, our Senior Commanders in West Pakistan had the option to continue the war had they so desired. In the past in all our operational planning for the defence of East Pakistan, we had been saying, “If Indians Capture Dacca we will capture Delhi and that the defence of East Pakistan lies in West Pakistan.” When the time came and East Pakistan was occupied by the Indian troops, Pakistan Army in West Pakistan could not capture even Amritsar or Jammu. In fact they very eagerly accepted the
Indian offer of ceasefire. At that critical moment, none of them had the courage to stand up and say, “No we will not accept ceasefire. We will fight till such time we capture a big chunk of Indian territory, at least, the size of East Pakistan” Had they done so there would have been no need for our 96,000 prisoners of war to remain in Indian camps for about 2 1/2 years.
To you, too, I urge - please let us return to the topic.
 
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@Joe Shearer A interesting and very telling snippet from OP below. I have always maintained that West Pakistani leadership(both political and military) betrayed their companions in East, and today try to hide behind 1000 mile separation argument to find some solace, though it was not a surrender in East only but a bigger one in West.

Its always a pleasure to see armies of both nation recognizing the brave.

For, after the fall of Dacca, our Senior Commanders in West Pakistan had the option to continue the war had they so desired. In the past in all our operational planning for the defence of East Pakistan, we had been saying, “If Indians Capture Dacca we will capture Delhi and that the defence of East Pakistan lies in West Pakistan.” When the time came and East Pakistan was occupied by the Indian troops, Pakistan Army in West Pakistan could not capture even Amritsar or Jammu. In fact they very eagerly accepted the
Indian offer of ceasefire. At that critical moment, none of them had the courage to stand up and say, “No we will not accept ceasefire. We will fight till such time we capture a big chunk of Indian territory, at least, the size of East Pakistan” Had they done so there would have been no need for our 96,000 prisoners of war to remain in Indian camps for about 2 1/2 years.




Yet you conveniently forget the annexation of over 35% of former indian territory in the creation of Pakistan and there is NOTHING indian kind can do to EVER get that former indian territory back again........:azn:
 

Joe Shearer

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I thought everything the brave guy said in his interview is The topic. :)

I am just commenting on what he himself is disappointed by.
It is liable to be misinterpreted - wilfully by some members so inclined.

Yet you conveniently forget the annexation of over 35% of former indian territory in the creation of Pakistan and there is NOTHING indian kind can do to EVER get that former indian territory back again........:azn:
Please stick to the topic.
 

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