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Final operational clearance for Tejas again delayed till next year

Peaceful Civilian

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Lol. ...you Want to get Israeli avionics, imported missile, imported engine, imported LRUS, FMDs from France, imported radar, LCA will become truly indigenous prototype. ..Anyway, Congrats your engineer fixed leakage problem after 20+ years on prototype, but now it started creating other issue.
Lagay raho Munna bhai!
Best of luck!
 
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Secur

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"Overestimation of capabilities on HAL's part" is fairly accurate. When this project first started out (mid 90s) the GoI/MoD/DRDO/ADA/HAL failed miserably to understand the complexities involved in a first of its kind project like this for a nation as industrialised (or lack thereof) as India. It is also clear that no one could have foreseen the crippling technological sanctions India, and by extension HAL/ADA, would be made to incur just as this project was starting to gain some momentum which set them back years.

Let's not forget that the first LCA prototype flew within 6 years of the project actually beginning- this is quite a commendable achievement considering the base that the ADA/HAL started with. Subsequently the sanctions kicked in and the project stalled.


By any objective measure there is nothing alarming about the LCA project's timeline- the Rafale, Eurofighter and F-22 have all taken longer to develop and enter service than the LCA and this too coming from some of the most advanced and industrialised nations on the planet and the world's leading aviation giants (BAE, Dassualt, Lockhead Martin etc) it is all a matter of perception now- the LCA is a failure/delayed because this is what people say but there is little empirical evidence to support this.
Perhaps, that might have been the thought pattern backed by the fact that India has previously license produced different aircraft. How do you define "actually beginning"?

Contextually, there is everything alarming about consistent delays and never ending technical problems in sight. The Tejas was considered and designed for a purpose, if you were to replace all the Migs with Rafale-Sukhois or even a significant amount or to a point where T50 actually begins to be available than that purpose in defeated. Its losing its relevance day by day and the delays are ongoing which is a fact that you chose to miss.
 

Abingdonboy

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Its losing its relevance day by day and the delays are ongoing which is a fact that you chose to miss.
It is only 2015 and the LCA is entering service today, there are still hundreds of MiGs in service and the MKIs and Rafales are merely supplementing the top-end of the IAF, there is still a HUGE requirement for the LCA to fill and thus it is still very relevant.

If the IAF went and ordered 300 Rafales/MKIs this would be less true but that is not the case- the IAF may order another 50 MKIs (to bring the fleet up to 320 or so) and will likely get 80-126 (Maybe 200 as the Jaguars begin to be phased out) Rafales but there are still going to be hundreds of MiGs (21s and 27s) to replace, this won't change.
 

rockstarIN

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Perhaps, that might have been the thought pattern backed by the fact that India has previously license produced different aircraft. How do you define "actually beginning"?

Contextually, there is everything alarming about consistent delays and never ending technical problems in sight. The Tejas was considered and designed for a purpose, if you were to replace all the Migs with Rafale-Sukhois or even a significant amount or to a point where T50 actually begins to be available than that purpose in defeated. Its losing its relevance day by day and the delays are ongoing which is a fact that you chose to miss.

Perhaps you should update about LCA MK-1, and its status as of now.

So Far

-R73 - fully integrated, tested.
-LGB Griffin - Fully integrated, tested.
-LGB Payway - Fully integrated, tested.
-Laser pod - integrated.

AoA - 24 achieved, to be tested for 28 in July- August
Radar Range - 85 km A2A for 2 RCS , waiting for new radome to increase to 100+
-Gsh23(Gun) - integrated,weapon trail in July
-Python 5 - integrated , weapon trail in July
-Derby BVR - Integrated, weapon trail in July

-refuel probe and radome yet toe receive from cobham, expected in July-August

So a modern delta wing fighter with 42% composites with above characteristics is bad?
 

knight11

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Guys do you really think that Tejas is soooo late. I don't think so at all see the timeline. It is late may be 3-4 year but not more than that. It is a part of the life in R&D and Development even consider the work done for establishing various R&D lab spread across the country which was not there before, the complexity of the project, the setback from ASQR change which eventually kills Kaveri project, US sanctions which causes delay for atleast 2 year for FBW, incorporating newer technology with time, working under fixed budget and most important facing criticism and fighting the old slow bureaucracy process.

Problems arises in the development but Tejas Program is doing well. We are not SAAB or LM with decades of experience but do have potential and faith to fulfill the user requirement.
 

rcrmj

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well, not surprised at all, this joke will continue into the future and more fiasco is pending :D
 

he-man

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By 2030 we would have inducted advanced blocks of thunder and j-31 and if needed j-10s

Your dependance on Tejas will be your own downfall.
Yeah and jf-17 will shoot down mig-29k,pakfa ,rafales and mirage 2000-5 .
We are totally doomed:D
 

knight11

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A radome (which is a portmanteau of radar and dome) is a structural, weatherproof enclosure that protects a microwave (e.g. radar) antenna. The radome is constructed of material that minimally attenuates the electromagnetic signal transmitted or received by the antenna. In other words, the radome is transparent to radar or radio waves. Radomes protect the antenna surfaces from weather and conceal antenna electronic equipment from public view....

LCa was planned for a kevlar radome with indegenous MMR but fails.


Now the new quartz nose cone supplied by Cobham replaces an indigenous one and is expected to help the Mk-I's multi-mode radar (MMR) (which has an indigenous antenna and scanner but an Elta EL/M-2032 processing back end) achieve 60 per cent more range than with the latter.The indigenous nose cone has of course already been fully qualified for all modes of the MMR but the current loss through this composite part limits the MMR's detection range to around 50 kms for a fighter sized target and this is expected to increase to more than 80 kms with the new quartz nose cone.
80/50 = 1.6 i.e 60 % more range and not 15% as Tarmak Chat with former ADA director suggested.

According to Dr Tamilmani, the first nose cone that Cobham made 'had problems' with appreciable losses which led them to making a second cone that is still undergoing structural load tests in the UK. This second nose cone will be supplied to India only in February 2015 and besides spot checks some 50 sorties will have to be flown to qualify this new nose cone. Though three Tejas flight vehicles outfitted with the MMR are ready to receive the new quartz nose cones, the delivery schedule is staggered with the remaining two being delivered at an interval of a month each after the first one. So as per Dr Tamilmani, there are no technological issues deferring FOC but merely process related ones subject to the vagaries of the foreign supplier for the two aforesaid parts.

A radome (which is a portmanteau of radar and dome) is a structural, weatherproof enclosure that protects a microwave (e.g. radar) antenna. The radome is constructed of material that minimally attenuates the electromagnetic signal transmitted or received by the antenna. In other words, the radome is transparent to radar or radio waves. Radomes protect the antenna surfaces from weather and conceal antenna electronic equipment from public view....

LCa was planned for a kevlar radome with indegenous MMR but fails.


Now the new quartz nose cone supplied by Cobham replaces an indigenous one and is expected to help the Mk-I's multi-mode radar (MMR) (which has an indigenous antenna and scanner but an Elta EL/M-2032 processing back end) achieve 60 per cent more range than with the latter.The indigenous nose cone has of course already been fully qualified for all modes of the MMR but the current loss through this composite part limits the MMR's detection range to around 50 kms for a fighter sized target and this is expected to increase to more than 80 kms with the new quartz nose cone.
80/50 = 1.6 i.e 60 % more range and not 15% as Tarmak Chat with former ADA director suggested.

According to Dr Tamilmani, the first nose cone that Cobham made 'had problems' with appreciable losses which led them to making a second cone that is still undergoing structural load tests in the UK. This second nose cone will be supplied to India only in February 2015 and besides spot checks some 50 sorties will have to be flown to qualify this new nose cone. Though three Tejas flight vehicles outfitted with the MMR are ready to receive the new quartz nose cones, the delivery schedule is staggered with the remaining two being delivered at an interval of a month each after the first one. So as per Dr Tamilmani, there are no technological issues deferring FOC but merely process related ones subject to the vagaries of the foreign supplier for the two aforesaid parts.
Bhaiya what is the issue.
 

knight11

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Mechanical with temperature. BMI has high temperature strength. Quartz fiber has very good transmissibility and loss tangent with zero moisture absorption.

But costs more.

Typical Cobham radomes use fibers of E-glass, S-glass or Quartz and resins of BMI, cyanate ester, polyester, and epoxy.
 

Dash

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Perhaps, that might have been the thought pattern backed by the fact that India has previously license produced different aircraft. How do you define "actually beginning"?

Contextually, there is everything alarming about consistent delays and never ending technical problems in sight. The Tejas was considered and designed for a purpose, if you were to replace all the Migs with Rafale-Sukhois or even a significant amount or to a point where T50 actually begins to be available than that purpose in defeated. Its losing its relevance day by day and the delays are ongoing which is a fact that you chose to miss.
Loosing relevance to developed nations but not immediate neighborhood. Its a point defence fighter with a combat radius of 400 kms and you can understand where it is in hierarchy. Its a number game of Iaf and Tejas to fill the numbers in years to come. But then again we don't intend to stop Tejas there as eventually it will evolve into something else.
 

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