• Tuesday, December 10, 2019

Fatal crash highlights the Chinese Air Force's flaws - 3 Dead

Discussion in 'Chinese Defence Forum' started by bl33d, Oct 30, 2019.

  1. bl33d

    bl33d FULL MEMBER

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    Fatal crash highlights Chinese air force’s flaws, with drill and equipment problems implicated in deaths of three, including pilot who flew in National Day military parade
    • The deaths of three airmen in a helicopter crash and a second accident days later point to problems with training and equipment
    • The crashes happened within a span of 10 days, amid an increased number of intensive drills
    [​IMG]

    Engine flaws and a lack of training have been identified as the likely causes of two accidents that hit the Chinese air force in the space of little over a week – one of which claimed the lives of three airmen.

    Deaths from the crashes, which happened within a span of 10 days, included a helicopter pilot who took part in the National Day grand parade at the start of the month.

    A number of military sources said that as the air force stepped up its exercises – part of President Xi Jinping’s call to strengthen the “combat readiness” of the military – more accidents would happen as increased drills exposed technical problems and inadequate training.

    “[If these problems are not resolved], it is foreseeable that more accidents will happen because the top brass is pushing for more drills and exercises across the military,” said one source close to the air force.

    The fatal accident happened about three weeks ago in central Henan province, when a transport helicopter crashed, killing all three people on board.

    [​IMG]
    Gong Dachuan, 33, was one of the airmen killed in the crash.

    Local television reports named pilot Gong Dachuan, 33, and 37-year-old engineer Wen Weibin, as two of this killed in the crash. The third victim was later named as Luo Wei, from Luzhou in Sichuan, by an online mourning website.


    A memorial for Gong was held by the local government in Xinye County last Tuesday.

    “The three people were conducting some tests on the helicopter,” said a local source who declined to disclose where the crash happened and the nature of the test.


    [​IMG]
    Xinye county government in Henan province held a memorial to honour the dead pilot.

    Media reports said that Gong had flown in this year’s National Day parade in Beijing, while Wen had been decorated for his participation in the 2015 parade in Beijing to mark the 70th anniversary of victory over Japan in World War II.

    The three dead airmen have been designated as martyrs, the reports added.

    The second accident happened eight days later on the Tibetan Plateau where a J-10 fighter jet on a low-altitude flying drill crashed into the mountain.

    “Fortunately, the pilot ejected safely in time, but the J-10 crashed into the mountain,” said an informed source, who requested anonymity since no official announcement about the accident has been made.

    “Preliminary investigations indicated that the accident had something to with the Russian-made AL-31 engine on board the J-10,” the source said.

    Military analysts said the air force needs to improve the durability of its aircraft and training for pilots.

    Hong Kong-based military expert Song Zhongping suggested that problems with engines and flight control systems were also key reasons behind some of the fatal crashes.

    [​IMG]
    Wen Weibin, 37, also died in the crash.

    Two J-15 fighter jets crashed in April 2016, resulting in one death and one serious injury. Investigations into the two crashes pointed to problems with the flight control system.

    A source from the Chinese air force said that, unlike their American counterparts, PLA pilots generally lack training in avionics engineering and had little flying experience before enlistment.

    “PLA pilots may be strong and courageous, and they are motivated to make sacrifices,” the air force source said. “But they don’t have as much experience as American pilots – many of [whom] have a lot of experience in flying civilian aircraft before they join the air force.”

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...tal-crash-highlights-chinese-air-forces-flaws

    NOTE- Please do not bring up India here, as we all know we have a pretty pathetic record as for crashes. Its about China here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  2. Beast

    Beast ELITE MEMBER

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    SCMP, enough say.. Full of BS and biases against China in regards to anything.
     
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  3. bl33d

    bl33d FULL MEMBER

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    o_O
    Full of biases against China?
    Did you read before replying?
    People actually died in crashes!
    Or that's some concocted West propaganda?
     
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  4. serenity

    serenity FULL MEMBER

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    I think he means the suggestion of being a flaw of airforce. I don't think he is denying what happened. Just that SCMP is saying an unfortunate thing means there are big flaws in the airforce. PLAAF's safety record is not the best but it's definitely pretty good already. Of course can keep improving. For example both our countries have troubles with Russian engine reliability. I guess that flaw is China still uses Russian engines. We need to quickly solve our engine problems and use more Chinese engines. So far WS-10 just started getting introduced to J-10. Production rate is still slower than what factories need for planes.
     
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  5. Hachiman

    Hachiman STAFF

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    News articles can only tell impartial stories/articles if they state the narrative from both sides. Giving only one side of story and not taking input or position of military spokesperson shows the biased nature of reporting.
    The whole article is just stating what a source told them.
     
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  6. Rusty

    Rusty SENIOR MEMBER

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    I'm confused.
    Are people denying that 3 people died and that accident happened because SCMP reported it?

    SCMP is Chinese isn't it?
     
  7. bl33d

    bl33d FULL MEMBER

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    Well we have realized how important having our own engines is. You guys are much closer at realizing it. We are taking baby steps.

    I think you are probably new to the idea that "China is not known for its freedom of information"
     
  8. Beast

    Beast ELITE MEMBER

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    Died does it mean the airforce is bad and lack of training? So how many crashes USAF has? If just a few crashes will indicated lack of adequate training, I guess USAF will long belong to sub standard AF. China has the world second largest military budget , second behind US and not to mention, the PPP allows China to have more training and afford more things compare to counterpart. This article is trying to misled readers, all this is due to lack of adequate issue. I can answer , if talks about lack of funds for military. China will be last on the list compare to other countries.

    Stop divert the issue. It's not about died of pilots. Tell me which airforce don't have crashes? The only airforce that don't crashes are airforce that don't fly and train. But to try misled readers that the world second largest military budget countries has lack of adequate training is simply a big joke.
     
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  9. beijingwalker

    beijingwalker ELITE MEMBER

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    Military jets and choppers crashes all the time everywhere, in India and US included, bad business but nothing worth to blow them out of proportion.

    List of accidents and incidents involving military aircraft (2010–present)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_military_aircraft_(2010–present)


    2019
    January 9
    French Air Force Dassault Mirage 2000D 667/3-JZ crashes near Mignovillard in the Jura region of eastern France during a low-altitude training mission; the two pilots are never found.
    January 28
    An Indian Air Force SEPECAT Jaguar crashed shortly after takeoff in Uttar Pradesh.[356] The pilot ejects safely.
    February 1
    An Indian Air Force Dassault Mirage 2000TI crashes shortly after takeoff at Bangalore, Karnataka during a test flight; both pilots ejected, but did not survive.[357]
    February 10
    An Ethiopian Mil Mi-8, ET2015, crashes in a UN compound at Abyei, South Sudan, with 23 on board, killing 3.[358]
    February 12
    An Indian Mikoyan MiG-27 crashed at the Pokhran firing range.[359] The pilot ejects and survives.
    February 19
    Two Indian Air Force BAE Hawk Mk 132 collide in mid-air while rehearsing for a display at Bengaluru's Aero India show. One pilot was killed, two injured.[360]
    February 27
    An Indian Air Force Mil Mi-17V5 crashes at Budgam, near Srinagar, killing the 6 IAF personal on board, and a civilian on the ground. Later it was revealed that the helicopter has been shot down by Indian SAM (surface to air missile) station.[361]
    March 8
    An Indian Air Force Mikoyan MiG-21 crashes near Bikaner, western Rajasthan following a bird strike, the pilot ejects safely.[362]
    March 12
    A PLANAF jet fighter, probably a Xian JH-7, crashes in Ledong County, Hainan province; Lieutenant Colonel Ren Yongtao and Lieutenant Nian Jinxin die in the crash.[363]
    March 30
    A U.S. Marine Corps AH-1Z Viper attack helicopter crashes outside of Marine Corps Air Station Yuma in Yuma Arizona. Both pilots die in the crash.
    March 31
    An Indian Mikoyan MiG-27 UPG crashes in Sirohi, Rajasthan, the pilot ejects safely.[364]
    April 9
    JASDF Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II 79-8705 disappears during a training mission with three other aircraft. [365] Some debris from the aircraft is found that night and some human remains were recovered on June 7 from the ocean floor. Reports released on June 10 and August 9 attribute the cause to spatial disorientation. All 12 (and a partially completed 14th) JASDF F-35As are temporarily grounded following the crash.
    May 17
    An U.S. Air Force F-16 crashed into a warehouse near the March Air Reserve Base in Perris, California. The pilot ejected before impact, and the small fire that broke out was quickly suppressed.[366]
    May 24
    Mexican Navy Mil Mi-17 ANX-2206 crashes in central Mexico while fighting a fire, killing six including five members of the Navy crew and an inspector with the national forestry commission.[367][368]
    May 25
    A U.S. Army Boeing CH-47 Chinook is destroyed following a hard landing in Helmand, Afghanistan. Passengers and crew on the board survived and sustained injuries.[369]
    June 3
    Main article: 2019 Indian Air Force An-32 crash
    IAF Antonov An-32 K2752 crashes near Pari Hills in the state of Arunchal Pradesh after losing contact with ground control leading to death of all 13 members onboard. [370] Wreckage was located on June 11 by a Mil Mi-17.
    June 24
    German Air Force Eurofighter Typhoon 30+48 collides with German Air Force Eurofighter Typhoon 30+55 near Müritz, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. Both pilots eject but only one survives. Both aircraft were of TLG73.[371]
    July 25
    Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet E F-UHRR of Patrouille de France overruns the runway at Perpignan Airport. The pilot ejects and survives.[372]
    August 8
    An IAF Sukhoi Su-30MKI crashes minutes after take-off, pilots eject safely. A Sukhoi-30 fighter jet of the Indian Air Force that had taken off on a training sortie on Thursday evening has crashed, an IAF official said. [373]
    August 26
    Spanish Air Force CASA C-101 E.25 Mirlo crashes into the sea in front of "La Manga", Region of Murcia, killing the pilot and member of aerobatic demonstration team Patrulla Águila.[374]
    September 18
    Spanish Air Force ENAER T-35 Pillán E.26 Tamiz crashes into the sea shortly after taking off from San Javier airbase in Region of Murcia. Both the instructor and the student die.[375]
    October 2
    Main article: 2019 Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress crash
    A Boeing B-17G Flying Fortress, registration N93012, "Nine-O-Nine" (former 44-83575), crashes while attempting to land at Bradley International Airport, Connecticut during an air show after the pilot reported a problem with the No. 4 engine, killing seven of 13 on board (including both pilots) and injuring one person on the ground. Aircraft burns out with only the left wing and tail intact. The aircraft was painted to represent the original Nine-O-Nine, B-17G 42-31909.
     
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  10. serenity

    serenity FULL MEMBER

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    Yes I think our objection is to the article's suggestion. They taking a tragic event and saying ridiculous things. To know whether China's airforce is really has big maintenance for something flaw, we need to see whole picture and carefully do statistical analysis. Just from one crash to say yes there are some mysterious big flaws is shit article. Maybe there are problems but we need to find the investigation and carefully analyze whole situation and airforce. Recently PLAAF does much more training and accident rate has also gone up similar rate.

    This article doesn't even say what the big issues are and how they effect the airforce and create this flaw. First define the flaw miss Chan and then investigate and provided accurate data to back up the theory. That's proper reporting. This article seems empty.

    The reality is Russian engines have been quite a lot of trouble. We cannot buy any western powerful turbofans for military so only our WS-10 for J-10 which is starting to begin now. Before our WS-10 early types had lower life and more mid air stoppage than AL-31 but now it has longer life, slightly more thrust but still mid air stoppage is a problem and was considered by PLAAF to be too terrible for single engine fighter. Understand this, mid air stoppage is a problem for even F110 and AL-31 and to fix it, just have to restart engine during flight. But early WS-10 had more than double the rate of occurrence than AL-31 and when single engine fighter lose thrust, it may get shot down by enemy before it gets chance to fully repower up again. So this was previous main reason WS-10 wasn't used on J-10 but on J-11 and J-16 it was used and now close to a thousand currently used and more than a thousand produced for spares and retired old A models.

    Soon future build J-10 will use WS-10 but AL-31 is still a very powerful and pretty good engine. China ordered few hundred more to support current fleet for spares. They break down often. I'm sure India airforce know well too. The Russians blame us for these problems but both PLAAF and IAF know.
     
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  11. beijingwalker

    beijingwalker ELITE MEMBER

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    Indian military planes top the crash list by a big margin, followed by US
     
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  12. ADIL SHERDIL

    ADIL SHERDIL FULL MEMBER

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    Loss of life is sad. But you have to look at the irony on this thread Indians talking about other countries Air force crashes. Planes crashes its a known fact. A simple question is how many Plane crashed in India and China? Let say in last 3 years.
     
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  13. maximuswarrior

    maximuswarrior ELITE MEMBER

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    LOL Exactly. The first thing crossing my mind. The IAF are experts at crashing aircraft.
     
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  14. ADIL SHERDIL

    ADIL SHERDIL FULL MEMBER

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    @maximuswarrior not just crashing but also downing their own. Indian Armed force is like a spoiled child which wants all the toys but cant take good care of it. Its like a Liar teaching the virtue of truth
     
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  15. maximuswarrior

    maximuswarrior ELITE MEMBER

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    After the devastating sub hatch incident Indians should not even be here on PDF.
     
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