What's new

FA-50 and JF-17 are the finalists for Malaysian Air Force's Deal: Korea Times

FuturePAF

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 17, 2014
4,119
19
5,063
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
In terms of the LCA requirement, the official noted that the selected platform must be able to conduct air-to-air and air-to-ground missions effectively, with a future maritime strike capability; that it must be able to conduct counterinsurgency operations; that it be “economically viable”; and that enough be bought to be able to conduct operations in two theatres simultaneously, and at very short notice.

Economically viable ??

time will tell 😉
Pakistan should showcase all these capabilities in a “Mission X” similar to what the X-35 did when competing against the X-32 in the “Battle of the X-Planes”. Carry out a mock dogfight (after a rules of engagement based intercept and “interrogation” using an IRST Pod to show off its WVR and BVR capabilities) with PAF F-16s (in a scenario where the JF-17 is defending its home base’s port city from the F-16 carrying PGMs) to get to a point where it can bypass/defeat them (kinetically and with electronic jamming) and deliver PGM on an enemy ground force; Sam battery, munitions dump or command post.

Then land on a road base (preferably at night) and take off towards the sea after a quick turn around (goal should to get the JF-17 to show it can generate a high sortie rate of at least 3-4 sorties per day if not 5; because the JF-17 is a warbird and not a ramp queen). defeating a ships air defense to deliver an Anti-Ship Cruise missile strike, while on its way back to base it flys (30-40 km) along a border and uses its long range targeting pod and AESA radar to monitors a suspicious convoy., feeding that information back to a base command post in real time, and getting the permission to knock out a key bridge to prevent enemy/terrorist movement over the bridge. If the JF-17 can demonstrate it can carry a relatively large number of small diameter precision weapons for taking out a large number of “pop-up” targets it would also help its case. 4 pylons with 3-4 CM-506KG SDB style glide bombs or CS/BBM2s each would help make the case for a great CAS as well as electronic attack platform.

some sections of this should be done at night to show its a true day and night fighter/CAS platform, especially in the long range PGM strikes and monitoring of enemy air and ground movements. Data linking to other assets like UAVs and controlling from Within the plane would be a plus. An advanced and secure datalink is also a very marketable asset. Allowing tactics to minimize risk to the JF-17 and carry out a multi-axis attack. Drones to be used as standoff jammers or ISR assets. Also, the JF-17 should try to demonstrate ways it can use its AESA radar or EW systems in electronic attack (or cyber attack via it’s datalink or some such method) on enemy forces, so in a scenario it can’t be seen as carrying out a kinetic attack it can still cause an effects based attack from stand-off range.

Besides the plane it should feature competitive weapons and associated training equipment. Similar to the American LRASM, a Chinese equivalent or the Turkish SOM missile should be offered because the Koreans have a 500 km cruise missile on offer (a future NATO system that is/was planned for the F-35 and possibly also comes in a jammer variant? Similar to Mald-J).

Pakistan should also share its road map for the future development of the JF-17, especially how the transition from the RD-93 to the RD-93MA will offer improvements in flight performance when it becomes available in the not to distant future. It should also show how it foresees engine development beyond that, from both the Russian and Chinese manufacturers, especially if it shares the same engine as a future Chinese stealth fighter that will see growth for the next 30-40 years.

Training equipment, even if from a foreign supplier, should be shown if customized by Pakistan in the training of JF-17 pilots. Something similar to the “Griffin-2 Visual display system” dome shaped simulator by Collins Aerospace.
Something like what Gripen showed in its marketing video “Gripen NG. a New Generation is ready. Are you?”
 
Last edited:

Farhan Bohra

FULL MEMBER
Jul 5, 2016
364
-1
372
Country
India
Location
India
I don't fancy the chances either. I was just saying if FA 50 is an contender or let's say frontrunner despite Israeli electronics, then Tejas has an chance too. Still not saying Tejas is gonna win. But if it comes down to cost with let's say FA50 and Tejas share the same capabilities then we have a chance.

Moreover FA50 doesn't even has sufficient numbers with Korean AF. They have 60 with no more orders. While we have 123 on order with around 23 delivered to IAF. They have a trainer version T50 more numbers but not the FA50 which still can't fire BVRAAM nor do air to air refueling. Their version of FA50 in service is Indian Version of IOC Tejas. And they have to order American missiles to go with it. While Tejas can be integrated with Russian , Indian and Israeli missiles. Malaysia already has Russian missiles with them.

Quite honestly India can't offer with any other radar as of now. It's not really an plug and play situation. If it's a new radar, then again integration tests, missiles test has to take place. French won't allow their radar to mate with Russian missiles nor Israeli ones. This will increase the cost. The advantage of FA50 is their unveiling of KF21 prototype last week. Which they can entice them to join. But other than that, I don't see any real advantage, capabilities wise, KA50 has over Tejas. And as usual political leanings will also come into play.
Ohh, Tejas is actually way ahead.

Even the integration problems can be solved with a new mission computer. But problems remains the same,
 

Yasser76

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 28, 2017
2,073
1
3,178
Country
United Kingdom
Location
United Kingdom
Ohh, Tejas is actually way ahead.

Even the integration problems can be solved with a new mission computer. But problems remains the same,
Its the time, cost and effort that will be required, and Malaysia will have to pay. Secondly after the move India pulled on the Malaysians a year or so back do not expect any love lost between them both. It is still a Muslim majority country with great sympathy for the Kashmir cause.

The above two issues will be the reason Tejas never will win In Malaysia. In face I really do not see Tejas prospects going well in any Muslim country.
 

Farhan Bohra

FULL MEMBER
Jul 5, 2016
364
-1
372
Country
India
Location
India
Its the time, cost and effort that will be required, and Malaysia will have to pay. Secondly after the move India pulled on the Malaysians a year or so back do not expect any love lost between them both. It is still a Muslim majority country with great sympathy for the Kashmir cause.

The above two issues will be the reason Tejas never will win In Malaysia. In face I really do not see Tejas prospects going well in any Muslim country.
Facepalm, this obsession. People here just living in another world, all things are religion. Mahathir is gone bud.

And even Malay and Pakistan relations going to become strained in the coming months because of several reasons (if you don't see it coming, then you living in la-la land). But still, I believe like in the case of Burma they go with FC-1 to get favors from China).


Also who saying even India allows it, till now it is not cleared by any ministry (like the case in Phil over BrahMos), it is just a proposal from HAL. I don't think in any circumstances, MoD/PMO/CCS clears it for export.

To wo kya lenge, hum khud na bech rahe.
 
Aug 29, 2018
1,369
-3
579
Country
India
Location
India
Its the time, cost and effort that will be required, and Malaysia will have to pay. Secondly after the move India pulled on the Malaysians a year or so back do not expect any love lost between them both. It is still a Muslim majority country with great sympathy for the Kashmir cause.

The above two issues will be the reason Tejas never will win In Malaysia. In face I really do not see Tejas prospects going well in any Muslim country.
After Mahathir stepped down as PM, Malaysian govt has not mentioned Kashmir even once
 

Farhan Bohra

FULL MEMBER
Jul 5, 2016
364
-1
372
Country
India
Location
India
Hi,

Thank you---well thought of comment.

JF17 is the tip of the spear that the PAF would carry into future real time air combat---.

For that reason---the JF17 will do the job with no excuses. Neither the Korean aircraft or the Indian aircraft have that position laid up for them---. They are just the second or the third line of defence aircraft---.

But then---in major weapons procurement---there are other factors involved as well.
Countries don't buy aircraft by seeing it is the third or fourth line of defense.

And I don't know what the first/ fourth line of defense means.
Are you suggesting aerial battles are like medieval fighting where new recruits go first and Vets go in last?

Modern aerial warfare or combined ops doesn't work like that.

Do the countries buy F-16 based on their second or third line of defense? What an idioticness.
 

Yasser76

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 28, 2017
2,073
1
3,178
Country
United Kingdom
Location
United Kingdom
After Mahathir stepped down as PM, Malaysian govt has not mentioned Kashmir even once

Not the point, India threatened them and cut Palm Oil imports, do not expect any country to fall over themselves and entrusting you with their key defence projects after that. The price you pay for clumsy diplomacy. Tejas has zero chance of winning this. Absolutely zero.

Combine that with the fact that the plane you are pitching may rely on years of HAL led integration work on new sub systems, I am confident you have been laughed out of town already....
 
Aug 29, 2018
1,369
-3
579
Country
India
Location
India
Not the point, India threatened them and cut Palm Oil imports, do not expect any country to fall over themselves and entrusting you with their key defence projects after that. The price you pay for clumsy diplomacy. Tejas has zero chance of winning this. Absolutely zero.

Combine that with the fact that the plane you are pitching may rely on years of HAL led integration work on new sub systems, I am confident you have been laughed out of town already....
It does not matter what chances Tejas have. Fact is Malaysian team is set to visit HAL for evaluating Tejas on 18 May 2021.
 

Yasser76

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 28, 2017
2,073
1
3,178
Country
United Kingdom
Location
United Kingdom
Facepalm, this obsession. People here just living in another world, all things are religion. Mahathir is gone bud.

And even Malay and Pakistan relations going to become strained in the coming months because of several reasons (if you don't see it coming, then you living in la-la land). But still, I believe like in the case of Burma they go with FC-1 to get favors from China).


Also who saying even India allows it, till now it is not cleared by any ministry (like the case in Phil over BrahMos), it is just a proposal from HAL. I don't think in any circumstances, MoD/PMO/CCS clears it for export.

To wo kya lenge, hum khud na bech rahe.
Again, there is a cognitive habit by Indian members to see every scenario working out as best case for India and worse case for Pakistan,. Reason why you guys end up embaressed here all the time.

You have imagined up strains in Malay-Pak ties. Literally made them up so below is some real evidence for you





This is how India treated Malaysia




As you say, India may not approve a plane that has not even flown yet for a country that it tried to economically threaten. You realise the fantasy world you and Indian posters are living in now?
It does not matter what chances Tejas have. Fact is Malaysian team is set to visit HAL for evaluating Tejas on 18 May 2021.
No, this was fake Indian news, nothing confirmed by RMAF.
 

Farhan Bohra

FULL MEMBER
Jul 5, 2016
364
-1
372
Country
India
Location
India
Again, there is a cognitive habit by Indian members to see every scenario working out as best case for India and worse case for Pakistan,. Reason why you guys end up embaressed here all the time.

You have imagined up strains in Malay-Pak ties. Literally made them up so below is some real evidence for you





This is how India treated Malaysia




As you say, India may not approve a plane that has not even flown yet for a country that it tried to economically threaten. You realise the fantasy world you and Indian posters are living in now?


No, this was fake Indian news, nothing confirmed by RMAF.
Let's see, 2-3 years ago. The strain between Saudi/UAE-Pak was also made up by Indians until that actually happened.

This obsession with the Muslim majority not going to work.

People assume throwing your barader mulk under the bus will have no consequences.
 

Yasser76

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 28, 2017
2,073
1
3,178
Country
United Kingdom
Location
United Kingdom
Let's see, 2-3 years ago. The strain between Saudi/UAE-Pak was also made up by Indians until that actually happened.

This obsession with the Muslim majority not going to work.

People assume throwing your barader mulk under the bus will have no consequences.

Please, do not pretend you are a fantastic geo-poltical analyst and can predict the future. Anything can happen in the future, any idiot knows that, but right now the playing field is firmly against major big ticket buys of any defence equipment from India. Mathirs rage against Indian actions of citizenship and Kashmir did not come from nowhere, he is a poltician and was playing to strong public sentiment.

An Islamic association of Malaysia on Friday called on the international community to stand up in solidarity with the Kashmiri people and stop human rights abuses by the Indian security forces who are enjoying “impunity for crimes” committed in the Indian-administered Jammu and Kashmir.


Furthermore, as I mentioned, politics will play a part, and a JF-17 buy would indicate a pro-China slant.
Just wait til 19th May. I have already set a reminder on my mobile for this.
Glad you have so much spare time.
 

StormBreaker

SENIOR MEMBER
Nov 18, 2019
5,044
16
8,879
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
However, the FA-50 is reportedly behind the JF-17 in the race as the latter possesses a better mid-range weapons capacity which is a requirement of the Malaysian Air Force.
F the political angle. If Pakistan can slap KSA just to side with Malaysia in KL Summit, Malaysia must also slap all the political angles and get Thunder. Warna baat bas lafzon ki hi hai sari
 

Farhan Bohra

FULL MEMBER
Jul 5, 2016
364
-1
372
Country
India
Location
India
Please, do not pretend you are a fantastic geo-poltical analyst and can predict the future. Anything can happen in the future, any idiot knows that, but right now the playing field is firmly against major big ticket buys of any defence equipment from India. Mathirs rage against Indian actions of citizenship and Kashmir did not come from nowhere, he is a poltician and was playing to strong public sentiment.

An Islamic association of Malaysia on Friday called on the international community to stand up in solidarity with the Kashmiri people and stop human rights abuses by the Indian security forces who are enjoying “impunity for crimes” committed in the Indian-administered Jammu and Kashmir.


Furthermore, as I mentioned, politics will play a part, and a JF-17 buy would indicate a pro-China slant.


Glad you have so much spare time.
Again foolishness, he wants to replace IOC and want to become its leader. he don't gives shit about Kashmir. That's the problem with Pakistanis. Leaving in a dream world.

And the way you guys treated your fraaand Malaysia, God bachaye aise friends se.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom