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F-7P and F-7PG

Yasser76

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Eh. Not in 2021. Not when it can be shot down without getting within visual range of the aircraft it’s going to intercept. Would much rather send any other aircraft than this thing. The F16 and the JF-17 are much better interceptors than an F7PG, we just use it in that role because it’s the only role it can still be decent in. In an ideal world we would have never bought the PG and retired the P variant in 2005. I don’t know why people keep trying to hype up an ancient aircraft, we use it out of necessity, not out of choice.

I’m not saying the aircraft is inherently bad, when it was new it was the most cutting edge thing in the sky and it has served Pakistan very well, but compared to literally anything that came after it, it’s just too old, the sooner we get rid of it the better. No Air Force with a choice would pick this over a 4th gen, BVR capable aircraft.
Partly true, but for a simple air policing role this aircraft of just fine. Many rich countries like Austria, or Mexico do not want a fully fledged fighter but something simple that can just do routine policing duties (intercept drug runners, stray airliners etc). In this sense it makes perfect sense PAF keeps these by the Afghan and Iran borders and not particpate in Swift Retort or have an Indian facing role. Much better we send up these to overwatch those borders then say a F-16
 

iLION12345_1

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Partly true, but for a simple air policing role this aircraft of just fine. Many rich countries like Austria, or Mexico do not want a fully fledged fighter but something simple that can just do routine policing duties (intercept drug runners, stray airliners etc). In this sense it makes perfect sense PAF keeps these by the Afghan and Iran borders and not particpate in Swift Retort or have an Indian facing role. Much better we send up these to overwatch those borders then say a F-16
That’s what I said as well, my issue is not with the aircraft being in service, it’s with the fact that the aircraft is touted as being “a good interceptor”, which is simply untrue. As I said, we use the aircraft out of necessity and not choice, if the PAF or any Air Force could afford to replace their F7s with JF-17s, F-16s or any other modern aircraft they’d do it in a heartbeat, but they can’t afford that yet, they need the numbers, so they use them in the role they can do best, point defense interception. That doesn’t make them good aircraft, it just makes them good enough to be useful.

I don’t think Mexico and Austria are good examples, despite them being richer countries, they don’t invest as much in their militaries as Pakistan does. Austria spends about 1/3 and Mexico spends about the same as us despite having a much larger GPD. Moreover they’d never buy or consider a MiG-21 variant for purchase after the 2000s, there are modern options that would be a lot more cost effective in their case. Super Tucanos, broncos, FA-50s and other trainer aircraft come to mind. Pakistan bought these when it had no other option and they served their purpose, the sooner they are retired now the better.
The F7Ps were retired because we lost 3 pilots in a single year to them, not because the PAF just thought it was time to retire them, I do not want the PGs to reach the same stage.
 

m52k85

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It's designed to be an interceptor, and it is very very good at that role.
I have yet to see another airframe that does that one role without compromise.
It is a rocket, simple, yet effective design.
Yet its rate of climb and 'reach' for interception is inferior to Jf-17. 'Reach' being AAM range plus combat radius with intercept loadout.

The only relevant parameter for interception it beats the Jf-17 on is top spead, but in the words of Kaiser Tufail, that is only for a straight dash from one air base to another, so it hardly plays a part in the interception calculus. Please do correct me if you see any flaw in argument. Thanks.
 

Sinnerman108

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Yet its rate of climb and 'reach' for interception is inferior to Jf-17. 'Reach' being AAM range plus combat radius with intercept loadout.

The only relevant parameter for interception it beats the Jf-17 on is top spead, but in the words of Kaiser Tufail, that is only for a straight dash from one air base to another, so it hardly plays a part in the interception calculus. Please do correct me if you see any flaw in argument. Thanks.
There is decade upon decade of data available in favor of Mig21.
It is not right to compare and win from a 1950s design.

and if that vintage design still gives your enemy a pain in the *** .. well you know.
 

Akh1112

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There is decade upon decade of data available in favor of Mig21.
It is not right to compare and win from a 1950s design.

and if that vintage design still gives your enemy a pain in the *** .. well you know.

The days of interceptors are gone. Nobody Pakistan is fighting is flying long range bombers into our airspace.
 

Sinnerman108

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The days of interceptors are gone. Nobody Pakistan is fighting is flying long range bombers into our airspace.
Right, so that means enemy aggression will go unpunished and only point defense will be used
which will sooner rather than later get overwhelmed and eventually the sky will be lost to the enemy.

Did you think your argument through before you posted it ?

As soon an an enemy bogey is spotted, the first thing to do is the get your own plane there as fast as possible and hopefully higher than the enemy.

now go figure.
 

Akh1112

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Right, so that means enemy aggression will go unpunished and only point defense will be used
which will sooner rather than later get overwhelmed and eventually the sky will be lost to the enemy.

Did you think your argument through before you posted it ?

As soon an an enemy bogey is spotted, the first thing to do is the get your own plane there as fast as possible and hopefully higher than the enemy.

now go figure.
Interceptors are literally point defense?????????

no, you dont get your own plane 'there', you take it out if deemed hostile from as far as you can possibly get a kill, this isnt the 40s and 50s.
 

ziaulislam

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Eh. Not in 2021. Not when it can be shot down without getting within visual range of the aircraft it’s going to intercept. Would much rather send any other aircraft than this thing. The F16 and the JF-17 are much better interceptors than an F7PG, we just use it in that role because it’s the only role it can still be decent in. In an ideal world we would have never bought the PG and retired the P variant in 2005. I don’t know why people keep trying to hype up an ancient aircraft, we use it out of necessity, not out of choice.

I’m not saying the aircraft is inherently bad, when it was new it was the most cutting edge thing in the sky and it has served Pakistan very well, but compared to literally anything that came after it, it’s just too old, the sooner we get rid of it the better. No Air Force with a choice would pick this over a 4th gen, BVR capable aircraft.
True however as pure interceptor which requires visual confirmation it still is good aircarft

But not a reason to keep it around for that

Should be retired ASAP ..even if some life is left in these airframes they should be retired so man power can focus on jf17
 

khanasifm

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Few more years and pg will be gone as well [emoji6]

Infant with 112 “A” model 26 dual seater and 30 block 3 equals 168 which will be almost same number as f7p and pg fleet so end of f-7s

Remaining 100 or so will replace mirages about 5/6 sqdn, no need to count Ccs mirage sqn the 7th

Not counting the j-10 which may happen after block 3 in limited number 1 at most 2 sqn

All guessing based on open sources from paf
 
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