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F-7P and F-7PG

Jan 3, 2020
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People of Defence PK, I want all of us to get together and list out why the F-7 appears to be a problematic topic in the community.

Over here we will critically analyze the F-7 Variants operated by the P.A.F and if the F-7 Variants operated by the P.A.F are relevant in the coming decades.

I humbly request all participants to specify the variant of the F-7 "P or PG' they wish to discuss, share thoughts or simply vent about.

Hopefully this thread receives a warm and positive response of the community members.
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Jan 3, 2020
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radar range up-to 35kms or more ? Does it carry any fox3 ? or only fox 1s ?
Hi the Radar in the F-7s are I believe to be 50km + and it can carry a mix of west and locally produced A-G and Aim-9 sidewinders as the primary A-A load out for which the brevity code is Fox-2.

F-7P&PG was not a BVR design and neither it needs to be.

In order to focus one has to start with the Roles of the F-7P&PG.
 

alphapak

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Has PAF not phased out the F7's with over 100 JF17 Thunders? How many F7's are left
in the PAF?
 
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How many F7P and how many F7PG is the PAF currently operating? I was thinking that
they have been phased out by the JF17's.
From what I gather F-7P: CCS and LIFT so 2 squadrons for sure possibly 1 more.

F-7PG is at its original strength: Talons, Cheetahs and Tigers so 3 squadrons where I am sure there are 42-45 in T strengths.
 

Khan vilatey

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Those eagles are so awesome 😎



how many f-7pg were inducted I thought it was 60 can someone confirm ?
 

Gripen9

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According to Wiki PAF had a total of 180.
That is total F-7s. we have 3 sqn of PGs so around 60. These were inducted after 2001 I believe and are fairly potent point defense fighters with the double cranked wings and Grifo-7 AIR. I see them still in service for another 5-8 years.

Order of phase out will be (in my opinion)
Non rose mirages (8sqn) & F-7p
rose 1 (7 sqn)
F-7 PGs
Rose III (25/27 sqn)
 

nangyale

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The F-7s are the birds of the past. I believe PAF is only keeping them because they have airframe hours left and can thus be utilised for pilot flying hours.
Also can be utilised as wartime reserves
 

Windjammer

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People should remember that the PGs were acquired during middle of crisis with India in 2002.
Hence they weren't bought just to fire sidewinders as we had plenty other fighters with this capability.
The PG is much more capable aircraft than the earlier P version and are known to spoil the day for F-16s.

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There is a Sufficient number of F-7PG in the service of P.A.F to let go to waste. The last time I checked P.A.F was still indecisive about the LIFT for its trainee fighter pilot flying officers.

Since the Induction of the F-7P in 1988 the role of the F-7P was passed on from frontline to fast jet trainer of the P.A.F.

F-7P has been used in the later above domain for quite a while now....young trainee Fighter pilots go on and learn how to Fly a Mach 2+ capable plane and all it can encompass.....From BFM - Strafing - Bombing - AA work - operating Radar - using Afterburners - battle formations - First mock missions and so on.

We all should know by know that the F-7P was not meant to train novice Fighter pilots with barely 200 hours.

We should also know that the F-7P is a rather challenging air craft to master mostly because of its D-Delta layout/design making it like the F-104 in most ways.

PAF over the years had inducted up-to 143 F-7P and 17 FT-7P since 1988.

TODAY
The F-7P is very active in the Training role .

The F-7P is also very active with the CCS.

The F-7P is no longer at frontline roles and it has been replaced by the JF-17 block i & ii with a new role.




What we need to understand is that there is a Fighter jet in the P.A.F still at large and from what I gather has not been used to its full potential and the name of that crazy old goose is the F-7PG.

The F-7PG is rather mysterious Fighter flown by many a young.

Couple of things are going on for the F-7PG compared to the F-7P starting with the most obvious-

The wing

Retaining the center portion of the wing with the old Mig-21F13 sweep of 57 degrees the wing was then clipped or almost halved at the end to sport a new 42 degrees outer wing.

Over all area increased by 8% - 267.8sqft

Over all wingspan increased by 3 feet.

This allowed up to 45% increase in combat agility + satisfactory improvements in all other flight characteristics and a impressive high altitude performance.

The engine

The engine was also upgraded to a more power full variant of the WP-13 with (44.1kn and 66.7kn) the difference was not more than +2kn which logically should be disregarded as the F-7PG is also a heavier plat form.

Avionics

  • Rockwell Collins ARN-147VOR/ILS​
  • ARN-149 Automatic direction finder​
  • Pro Line 2 DME-42 Distance measuring equipment​
  • Thales Frequency hopping UHF radio​
  • Grifo radar - multi-mode pulse Doppler all weather fire control radar ( look down shoot down + ECCM ) >= 55 km.​
RWR + CM
HOTAS

Performance envelopes
  • Max indicated speed 1200km/h (745mph, 648kt).​
  • Min indicated speed 210km/h (130mph, 113kt) in level flight.​
  • Max initial rate of climb 38,400ft/min (195m/s).​
  • Operational ceiling 57,414ft (17500m). Hi-hi-hi air superiority mission with five minutes combat time in full a/b 850km (528 miles), with two AIM-9P AAMs, three 500-litre fuel tanks.​
  • Lo-lo-hi attack mission 550km (342 miles) with two Mk.82 bombs and two external tanks.​
Empty 5350kg
Max takeoff 8888kg (19,577lb) somewhere around those figures.

point intercept TW is 0.99 where ( 2 Fox2 + Pilot + 1000kg of fuel) with loiter time of 25 min

Air superiority / CAP TW is 0.85 were ( 4 Fox2 + Pilot + 1000kg fuel + 500L drop tank) loiter time of 45 min

Max weight TW is 0.74 were load and loiter depends.



Conclusion: There is heavy potential in this Platform to Act as a proper LIFT and an unforgiving Red Air but there needs to be a major change to the Powerplant and avionics.
The F-7s are the birds of the past. I believe PAF is only keeping them because they have airframe hours left and can thus be utilised for pilot flying hours.
Also can be utilised as wartime reserves
NO read my post.
 

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