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F-16 Rolls While SU-30 Crawls

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Big_bud

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Check out the difference in how the SU-30 of the Indian airforce and F-16 belonging to the Pakistan airforce perform the same maneuver during their respective day occasion. The IAF uses it's SU-30s in what it calls vertical Charlie while PAF calls them Vertical Rolls.

IAF SU-30MKI performing vertical Charlie Rolls at the end of the flypast. (Max-3 Rolls)


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PAF F-16 executing 12 High G Vertical rolls.



I think you have made the wrong conclusion here. SU30 with its twin engine and thrust vectoring technology can run circles around F16. Not vice versa. You can see WVR fight enactment between the two on DCS simulation videos online. I think what IAF with its SU30 is trying to show is the low stall speed of SU30 MKI. They are showing that the aircraft has a thrust so high that it does not need momentum & inertia to perform such an aggressive maneuverer. If the same was tried on an F16 at same speeds, it would just fall out of the sky. SU30 has more than double the thrust of F16. There is no comparison between nose authority of an SU30 MKI vs F16. SU30 can point its nose at F16 at anytime at wish and command.

123 KN x 2 = 246KiloNewton vs 106KiloNewton of PAF PW powered F16s.

The following video is of a SU35 I know its better than SU30MKI. But of the same family. Results wont be much different with SU30. F16 would struggle to keep up. Not saying it can't be done. But advantage is with SUs.




And what happens when JF17 goes WVR with SU30MKI
 
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baqai

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i think unfair to compare them both in a clean config when it comes to tight turns? am i wrong?
 

Windjammer

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I think you have made the wrong conclusion here. SU30 with its twin engine and thrust vectoring technology can run circles around F16. Not vice versa. You can see WVR fight enactment between the two on DCS simulation videos online. I think what IAF with its SU30 is trying to show is the low stall speed of SU30 MKI. They are showing that the aircraft has a thrust so high that it does not need momentum & inertia to perform such an aggressive maneuverer. If the same was tried on an F16 at same speeds, it would just fall out of the sky. SU30 has more than double the thrust of F16. There is no comparison between nose authority of an SU30 MKI vs F16. SU30 can point its nose at F16 at anytime at wish and command.

123 KN x 2 = 246KiloNewton vs 106KiloNewton of PAF PW powered F16s.

The following video is of a SU35 I know its better than SU30MKI. But of the same family. Results wont be much different with SU30. F16 would struggle to keep up. Not saying it can't be done. But advantage is with SUs.




And what happens when JF17 goes WVR with SU30MKI
Yes we saw all this on 27.2, it just took one AMRAAM to break the myth so much that none of the others in the air didnt even stick around to launch a single missile of their own.
Anyways the topic is not about respective aircrafts combat prowess.
BTW, talking about stall speeds, ever seen the Viper doing the high Alpha pass.
And I have seen the older F-16 roll down the runway and then pull up vertically.... In dry thrust.
 

serenity

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Original video comparison is stupid and inaccurate. How do you know Su-30MKI in that video is doing everything it can and the purpose of that move was to maximize the roll rate. To maximize roll rate, it would need to approach that climb with much greater speed but the pilot and program of display decided not to do that maybe and certainly the Su-30 can fly at least as fast as F-16 too and handle a higher speed turn into vertical climb.

This is like choosing the most impressive Su-30 video and then comparing it with a footage of F-16 in low energy state and then pilot doing a very relaxed turn. Then saying look F-16 turns slower than a packed bus.

We don't know what the Su-30 in the video can do because that video doesn't show it. Maybe the Su-30 there was only rolling at 20% what it is capable of while the F-16 is giving 100%.
 

Big_bud

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Yes we saw all this on 27.2, it just took one AMRAAM to break the myth so much that none of the others in the air didnt even stick around to launch a single missile of their own.
Anyways the topic is not about respective aircrafts combat prowess.
BTW, talking about stall speeds, ever seen the Viper doing the high Alpha pass.
And I have seen the older F-16 roll down the runway and then pull up vertically.... In dry thrust.

PAF performed better yes. PAF had better utilisation of its assets. The EW warfare and jamming capability was the thing that out the nail in the coffin. But aircrafts of IAF are better than PAF is no secret. They always have been, and will be. PAF trains to fight bigger and better air force. However as I have said before in various posts, in a full scale war PAF would be at disadvantage if they don't start aggressively destroying enemy runways from early days. And how reliably PAF can pull it off with mirages? I'm not sure.

P.S. I don't know why the obsession with F16s still exists in PAF pilots. Its like an uncle can't stop talking about his good old car he bought brand new after marriage, still thinks its the best car ever!
I am sure the test pilots are well aware of capabilities of other modern aircrafts. But normal pilots who have just flown 1 type of aircraft will usually only tell you how great their memories are with that 1 aircraft they have flown.
 

MilSpec

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Does that restricts it to execute just 3 rolls.


Empaths. Who make an appearance even though they are unable to comprehend the phyche of the subject.
India bashing in poor English, rise above the stereotype. But then again, as I have always maintained - conduct is an outcome of upbringing, remember?
 

Windjammer

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India bashing in poor English, rise above the stereotype. But then again, as I have always maintained - conduct is an outcome of upbringing, remember?
Pretty tall talk from someone who lost his title... due to habitual mud slinging and postings of no value.!!!
It's all good to act all civilised here but one's real mentality and upbringing shines through in their own echo Chambers where it's considered a sin to even call a Pakistani in a proper manner.
Even here most of Indians contribution is to act between a clown and a dallal.

Original video comparison is stupid and inaccurate. How do you know Su-30MKI in that video is doing everything it can and the purpose of that move was to maximize the roll rate. To maximize roll rate, it would need to approach that climb with much greater speed but the pilot and program of display decided not to do that maybe and certainly the Su-30 can fly at least as fast as F-16 too and handle a higher speed turn into vertical climb.

This is like choosing the most impressive Su-30 video and then comparing it with a footage of F-16 in low energy state and then pilot doing a very relaxed turn. Then saying look F-16 turns slower than a packed bus.

We don't know what the Su-30 in the video can do because that video doesn't show it. Maybe the Su-30 there was only rolling at 20% what it is capable of while the F-16 is giving 100%.
I think in one of the Indian videos, you are asked to use head phones... if nothing else, it would help you understand that the commentator announced that what you describe as an idle run in by the SU-30 was in fact being executed at 900 Km speed.
 

VkdIndian

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@serenity and @MilSpec see the logic of this super expert here.

Su-30 starts crawling as it enters Indian border while F-16 develops psychic capabilities as it enters some other borders.

This guy is a pathetic troll. He can come up with most weird logic but falls short every time.
 

Windjammer

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@serenity and @MilSpec see the logic of this super expert here.

Su-30 starts crawling as it enters Indian border while F-16 develops psychic capabilities as it enters some other borders.

This guy is a pathetic troll. He can come up with most weird logic but falls short every time.
Please don't try to grow a brain as you might become dangerous.

Just stick with your habbits of patting and rubbing others backsides and amusing yourself with cartoons. You are not worth my time.
 

MilSpec

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Pretty tall talk from someone who lost his title... due to habitual mud slinging and postings of no value.!!!
It's all good to act all civilised here but one's real mentality and upbringing shines through in their own echo Chambers where it's considered a sin to even call a Pakistani in a proper manner.
Find me one such post that I have written... title or no title, my take has been always the same.

Even here most of Indians contribution is to act between a clown and a dallal.
That would make you an honorary Indian I guess as you described your entire conduct across your existence on this forum.
 

Windjammer

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Find me one such post that I have written... title or no title, my take has been always the same.


That would make you an honorary Indian I guess as you described your entire conduct across your existence on this forum.
Comprehension issues.....I suggested you visit your own forums to understand what's a common Indians upbringing and back ground....something you keep repeating here.
No Sherlock.....if that was the case, i would be championing, boxing above weight and riding the Moral Mule on some Indian forum....like most of your country fellows do and behave on our forums.
 
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