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Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

AZADPAKISTAN2009

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Well Argentina has had a weak Airforce for long while so it makes sense for them to collaborate with China , who are 50% stakeholders in the Thunder Project

At somepoint they do have to protect their own land and natural resources without a proper airforce it is tough
 
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MastanKhan

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Hi,

Many a moons ago, I stated on this forum that the failure of UAE to get onboard the JF17 aircraft program right from the gitgo was a complete case of short sightedness and arrogance---.

If Qatar is begining to be a part of the team @ Kamra---it is a major first to enter into the field of military aviation.
 

TopGun786

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You could be right but I would tend to think they want PAF walas to train their boys and PAF walas have stipulated that they buy the B variant so training regimes "similar to PAF" can be setup in house. The Qataris on their part also want to establish local industry and a small plane from an easy source remains a good bet. The West is now an unreliable entity for all and sundry. And when you start seeing red the Habibis turn to Pakistan for help.
I could be totally wrong but I could bet you a cup of tea the truth lies somewhere in what I have written. They can get Western platforms but will not get TOT from anywhere and independence from Western clutches is becoming a matter of survival of these regimes. The russian door is closed for the moment so where else can they go to?
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Highly agree.
 
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Beast

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Like I’ve always said it is more than just a simple warplane deal. It is about Argentina providing for China’s mineral and agricultural needs in exchange for tech and defense. Unless Russia could stomach 300k metric tons of beef a year I don’t see the Mikoyan offer as very competitive.
Its not only about the barter trade. But argentina see JF-17 Blk III more suitable for Argentina AF with lower operating cost, more widely used (Myanmar, Nigeria, Pakistan) as proven unlike Mig-35 which looks good in paper but nobody wants it,

One thing to take note, Russia didnt block the RD-93 engine deal which proves China can come up an alternative engine if happened.
 

baqai

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well it's not a total loss for Russia TBH, look at it from this one way if they ban the engine from export we can simply export it with the Chinese option so I think rather banning the engine they will let it go so they are getting some revenue out of the deal
 

Beast

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well it's not a total loss for Russia TBH, look at it from this one way if they ban the engine from export we can simply export it with the Chinese option so I think rather banning the engine they will let it go so they are getting some revenue out of the deal
Precisely. JF-17 is directly compete with Russia product. By right, Russia would have block the engine re export option to save their sales. But it didn't, not becos it can't but it's futile. China and Russia are alliances but business is business.

Ukraine is friendly to China and close ties in the 2012 but that didn't stop them from blocking Peru VT1 tank engine re export as it clash with their Oplot T-84 sales to Peru.
 

araz

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Its not only about the barter trade. But argentina see JF-17 Blk III more suitable for Argentina AF with lower operating cost, more widely used (Myanmar, Nigeria, Pakistan) as proven unlike Mig-35 which looks good in paper but nobody wants it,

One thing to take note, Russia didnt block the RD-93 engine deal which proves China can come up an alternative engine if happened.
Russia has no interest whatsoever in blocking RD93 to Argentina. Its a/win win for them in any case.
A
 

Beast

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Russia has no interest whatsoever in blocking RD93 to Argentina. Its a/win win for them in any case.
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Not when China can provide the alternative engine that blockage is useless. Selling the whole plane(Mig-35) is more profitable than just engine. And I dont know if Argentina will opt for Chinese engine instead of Russia.
 

War Eagle

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I'm honestly surprised how little interest there seems to be for the JF-17 by Egypt. It seems to be a good fit for them. A low cost multi-role that complements the F-16 would be a shoe in to replace the mirages that Egypt operates. Egypt could get a pretty big order especially considering how large their Mirage fleet is. What's holding them back? Idk, it seems pretty straightforward.
 

GriffinsRule

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I'm honestly surprised how little interest there seems to be for the JF-17 by Egypt. It seems to be a good fit for them. A low cost multi-role that complements the F-16 would be a shoe in to replace the mirages that Egypt operates. Egypt could get a pretty big order especially considering how large their Mirage fleet is. What's holding them back? Idk, it seems pretty straightforward.
They already got Rafael and Mig-29s to replace their legacy jets. Can also acquire more of the same as needed. They were never a good candidate for JF-17 imo.
Same with Malaysia. It makes more sense for them to buy F/A-18C and D that Kuwait is retiring to compliment their existing fleet of twin engines jets.
 

Ali_Baba

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The performance of severly downgraded Russian export variants is now starting to bite the Russians in the *** interms of military sales. Russian systems perform poorly, we can all see that in the middle east. Look what Israel does to Russian systems ... almost daily..

And why would you want to risk making a decision of investing in a product whose pedigree has such poor performance from all previous instances of combat where Russian equipment have been involved and have been cannon fodder? Pakistan shot down a Su30MKI and a Mig21 not so long ago ... This is why I never understand the logic of people who think the Su-35 has relevance inthe world we live in given their performance and the state of what passes for Russian electronic systems.. Russian systems are only good against other Russian systems because they will both be equally bad and therefore equal in performance.

It is also something the Chinese need to think about when creating their "export" variants - as the performance of their export variants reflect the brand quality of Chinese military products. It is pointless to say that the Chinese version is fantastic when the export variant is massively compromised etc. Time will tell.

As yet - most of chinese systems are untested but if/when they are tested in military combat by countries that import chinese systems - they will need to work well otherwise those profits will dissappear as quick as they are starting to for Russia.
 
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Meliodas

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Why didn't the Su-35 equipped with AESA? and seems like no buyer for Mig-35 too.

Seems like nobody trust Russian AESA.


There is no need to sceptical about Chinese AESA. Russian has talk about fighter jet AESA for long like Mig-35 and yet to have any potential buyer going for AESA.

While it's strange why Russian Su-35 is using PESA despite your claim Russian possess AESA tech for fighter jet.

There is no doubt China semi industries are far superior than Russia. We produced design and produced our own chips for our military industries and even in civilian level, Chinese presence is felt while no where Russia to be seen.

As for Japan AESA, from a simple google. The AESA for their F-2 is nothing but failure. Japan maybe pioneer but they are definitely not leader in AESA and behind China. There is reason why China is the only Asian countries able to land a rover on Mars and not Japan.
It's going to be first aesa outside the close curtain of china, so it will be upto paf and other buyers of B3 to tell if Chinese aesa are worth their salt. So let's wait before boosting of superiority. Also as discussed by many on this forum regarding limitation of radar performance based on engine power, initial results might not be very positive.
 

Beast

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It's going to be first aesa outside the close curtain of china, so it will be upto paf and other buyers of B3 to tell if Chinese aesa are worth their salt. So let's wait before boosting of superiority. Also as discussed by many on this forum regarding limitation of radar performance based on engine power, initial results might not be very positive.
Nobody is boasting but no one really believe the improvement of China technology despite China has proven on many front of our technology prowess. If not how did we put a rover on Mars while Russian and ESA are still scratching their head on how to get it done?

There is a limit to boasting and those airforce interested in China military technology are no idiot. They have their trial to extensively tested China product before confirming their order. They dont buy blindly.
 

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