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Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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That list is LOVE


Bus aircraft carrier ki hi kami hai lol. Is there a viability in having a drone carrier? Have a squadron of drones similar to Boeing's Wingman drone. The drone carrier would also be cheaper to build and operate, and could also be considerably smaller in size.
I get that would probably be a more realistic option, but the prestige lies in a carrier with manned fighters. It's totally NOT on the PN's roadmap, but I wish for it: 45,000-tons, nuclear reactor, CATOBAR, and 2 fighter squadrons comprising of a marinized variant of AZM. But it's just a wish.
 

FuturePAF

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That list is LOVE


Bus aircraft carrier ki hi kami hai lol. Is there a viability in having a drone carrier? Have a squadron of drones similar to Boeing's Wingman drone. The drone carrier would also be cheaper to build and operate, and could also be considerably smaller in size.
Supposedly, The Next generation Chinese LHD; Type 076 maybe a drone carrier with an EMALS catapult system

 

Cookie Monster

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I think it's probably to have enough space in the ship for AShW, ASW and AAW (i.e., VLS) modules. So, they'll buy and induct the ships as OPVs, but later on, add AShW/ASW/AAW so that the ships can offer a wartime role.
I just read the article about PN's LRMPA plans on ur website...and there's this question I've been wanting to ask since it became known that Embraer Lineage 1000 is selected for that purpose...
...from what I've read...this aircraft has not been made in large quantities...iirc I think only 50 or so were produced. Could u or someone shine some light on the ease of serviceability of this aircraft? Are the major components like engine, flight control system, etc. shared by other aircrafts(that were produced in sufficient quantities)? Or is it possible that the manufacturer is willing to allow Pak to set up an MRO facility(any precedence of Embraer setting up such facilities in other countries or allowing other countries to set those up)?
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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I just read the article about PN's LRMPA plans on ur website...and there's this question I've been wanting to ask since it became known that Embraer Lineage 1000 is selected for that purpose...
...from what I've read...this aircraft has not been made in large quantities...iirc I think only 50 or so were produced. Could u or someone shine some light on the ease of serviceability of this aircraft? Are the major components like engine, flight control system, etc. shared by other aircrafts(that were produced in sufficient quantities)? Or is it possible that the manufacturer is willing to allow Pak to set up an MRO facility(any precedence of Embraer setting up such facilities in other countries or allowing other countries to set those up)?
There are only 28 Lineage 1000E. However, the Lineage 1000E is technically identical to the Embraer E190 (a few hundred are out there), except it has additional fuel tanks (added to the cargo area) for range.

But the Lineage draws on the exact same maintenance/support channel as the E190. So, if the PN chose the Lineage 1000E, then it shouldn't have any trouble supporting it with the existing commercial base.

It'd be nice if we could set-up a domestic MRO facility and then an assembly and partial / co-manufacturing set-up. Basically give a semi-local regional jet for our local airlines. However, I doubt we'd think that far or as ambitiously.

I'd like us to carve a niche as an independent mid-sized power with strong bilateral ties with 'peer states' such as Brazil, South Africa, Turkey, Ukraine, Sweden, etc, but our nation and its leaders are stuck on catch-all buzzy slogans, like CPEC.
 

Cookie Monster

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There are only 28 Lineage 1000E. However, the Lineage 1000E is technically identical to the Embraer E190 (a few hundred are out there), except it has additional fuel tanks (added to the cargo area) for range.

But the Lineage draws on the exact same maintenance/support channel as the E190. So, if the PN chose the Lineage 1000E, then it shouldn't have any trouble supporting it with the existing commercial base.

It'd be nice if we could set-up a domestic MRO facility and then an assembly and partial / co-manufacturing set-up. Basically give a semi-local regional jet for our local airlines. However, I doubt we'd think that far or as ambitiously.

I'd like us to carve a niche as an independent mid-sized power with strong bilateral ties with 'peer states' such as Brazil, South Africa, Turkey, Ukraine, Sweden, etc, but our nation and its leaders are stuck on catch-all buzzy slogans, like CPEC.
I vaguely remember there being news about Pakistan wanting to create a regional jet(whether through JV or not...I can't recall). I was hoping that going forward this jet would serve as the basis for AWACS, MPAs, EW(like HAVA SOJ), VIP transport, and also be put to civilian use by domestic airlines.

This alone would have created enough local demand while streamlining maintenance and lowering the cost overall. Export orders(if any) would've been icing on the cake.

Anyways...not sure what became of that program. It could've worked well IMO.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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I vaguely remember there being news about Pakistan wanting to create a regional jet(whether through JV or not...I can't recall). I was hoping that going forward this jet would serve as the basis for AWACS, MPAs, EW(like HAVA SOJ), VIP transport, and also be put to civilian use by domestic airlines.

This alone would have created enough local demand while streamlining maintenance and lowering the cost overall. Export orders(if any) would've been icing on the cake.

Anyways...not sure what became of that program. It could've worked well IMO.
It was a turboprop commuter aircraft. I think it may still be about, but they didn't set a real vision for a jet airliner.
 

Falcon26

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It depends on the size of the ballistic missile. It can be as compact as the SY-400 -- i.e., a variant of the CM400AKG. If the JF-17 can carry the CM400AKG, then the Type 054A/P could possibly carry the SY-400. This is the SY-400. It could potentially fit in an existing VLS -- the HQ-16 has a length of 5.2 m, the SY-400 a length of 5.1 m.

View attachment 680951

Anyways, a more general point, let's keep things relatively realistic based on the actual info available. Until the PN says so, the Type 055 -- or any true destroyer -- isn't on the cards.

If the CNS can clearly confirm to us that the Jinnah-class is separate from the 4 MILGEMs, then I am sure he'd clearly tell us a destroyer was on the cards.

There's no reason for him to be cryptic to the extent of continuing a point about the Yarmouk-class with a subtle comment about a destroyer the Chinese didn't even clear for export.
The outgoing navy chief mentioned a missile belonging to the “hypersonic domain,” isn’t that an indication it’s a different these these Chinese supersonic missiles? A hypersonic missile is distinctly different from a supersonic missile, why would the chief conflate the two?
 

Fighting Falcon 01

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The outgoing navy chief mentioned a missile belonging to the “hypersonic domain,” isn’t that an indication it’s a different these these Chinese supersonic missiles? A hypersonic missile is distinctly different from a supersonic missile, why would the chief conflate the two?
There was a supersonic missile mentioned in the MODP yearbook... we have heard about the hypersonic anti ship ballistic missile for the first time ...
 

Cookie Monster

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It was a turboprop commuter aircraft. I think it may still be about, but they didn't set a real vision for a jet airliner.
Well in absence of any real private companies making a foray in these things...it's too much to expect all of this coming from the military. If Pak government/ppl(the elites with money) set up companies like what Hyundai once was...then there's no reason why such a company can't grow to eventually make a push in the defense sector(when their R&D budget is large enough).

In case of a jet...Pak gov could provide incentives either to foreign companies to set up shop in Pak with local partnerships involved(and manufacture parts of the plane even if at a limited scale)...then purchase these planes for VIP transport, military use, civilian use, etc.

Or alternatively provide tax breaks and guaranteed sales for military and civilian use...to some local companies. The up side of this preferential treatment is that it would encourage investment from Pakistani elites...the down side is that if they are given a leg up on the competition...they might just deliver a subpar product.

In any case...something needs to be done about the private sector in Pak...it is severely lacking in its involvement in the defense related R&D.
 

mzain

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I think it's probably to have enough space in the ship for AShW, ASW and AAW (i.e., VLS) modules. So, they'll buy and induct the ships as OPVs, but later on, add AShW/ASW/AAW so that the ships can offer a wartime role.
I totally agree with you on this. Whatever PN consider, it must have at least 32 vls space to fit various kinds of missile in future.
 

Zarvan

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It depends on the size of the ballistic missile. It can be as compact as the SY-400 -- i.e., a variant of the CM400AKG. If the JF-17 can carry the CM400AKG, then the Type 054A/P could possibly carry the SY-400. This is the SY-400. It could potentially fit in an existing VLS -- the HQ-16 has a length of 5.2 m, the SY-400 a length of 5.1 m.

View attachment 680951

Anyways, a more general point, let's keep things relatively realistic based on the actual info available. Until the PN says so, the Type 055 -- or any true destroyer -- isn't on the cards.

If the CNS can clearly confirm to us that the Jinnah-class is separate from the 4 MILGEMs, then I am sure he'd clearly tell us a destroyer was on the cards.

There's no reason for him to be cryptic to the extent of continuing a point about the Yarmouk-class with a subtle comment about a destroyer the Chinese didn't even clear for export.
That I agree on. I am most curious for the missile. Once they reveal the missile we would know what kind of ships wold be inducted. Also USA Tomahawk has length on 5.56 Meters without booster and 6.2 meters with booster. What if go for Type 52 D destroyers with with those VLS which are on Type 55 destroyer.
 

Zarvan

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It depends on the size of the ballistic missile. It can be as compact as the SY-400 -- i.e., a variant of the CM400AKG. If the JF-17 can carry the CM400AKG, then the Type 054A/P could possibly carry the SY-400. This is the SY-400. It could potentially fit in an existing VLS -- the HQ-16 has a length of 5.2 m, the SY-400 a length of 5.1 m.

View attachment 680951

Anyways, a more general point, let's keep things relatively realistic based on the actual info available. Until the PN says so, the Type 055 -- or any true destroyer -- isn't on the cards.

If the CNS can clearly confirm to us that the Jinnah-class is separate from the 4 MILGEMs, then I am sure he'd clearly tell us a destroyer was on the cards.

There's no reason for him to be cryptic to the extent of continuing a point about the Yarmouk-class with a subtle comment about a destroyer the Chinese didn't even clear for export.
Although I think the ballistic missile which we would develop will be at least 2000 KM range. I am also expecting Pakistan to come up with 1500 KM Naval version of Babur. Plus a super sonic cruise missile.
 

HRK

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Guys who are debating on what those six ships will be, are asking wrong question. Even if that ship is just slightly bigger version of Yarmook class, it doesn't matter. The real thing to focus on is as former CNS mentioned that Pakistan is developing a hypersonic ballistic missile which can be fired from ships as well as submarines. The real question is let say that hypersonic missile has range of 2000 KM than which ship we have which is big enough to carry and fire those ballistic missiles ?? And answer is until now is that we don't have any such ship. Which automatically raises the point that which kind of ship would be able to carry that kind of missile and right now in entire world only Type 55 Destroyer is said to have that capability. This also means Pakistan will go for destroyers as well as SSBN Submarines.

@Falcon26 @Armchair @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @HRK @araz @CrazyZ @Yasser76 @Cool_Soldier @mzain @Signalian
bhai PN Chief only disclosed those programs which either he initiated in his tenure or were active in his tenure so what is hidden in future is open for speculation but we can only get glimpse when Current Chief would deliver his speech in next change of command ceremony .....
 

maverick1977

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More has been left unsaid then said
1. Much expanded surface fleet= means an A/C carrier is very likely. No point otherwise.

2. Marines expanded to a division sized force....thats too big for a coastal defence force. It means expeditionary capability. Means a LHD is also likely.

3. Nothing about strategic deterrence? I suspect a SSBN class is also in the future.
i have been vocal on Marine force beyond brigade size force. a Div size will for sure have LHD to be inducted in PN. i forsee LHD to be inducted around 2030. At the same time i do for see announcement of heavy strategic lift capability by airforce, most likely to supplement the Div size marines. if that happens rest assure, PN fleet will expand significantly in next 10 years.
Even if it was offensive, the PN isn't going to capture Indian territory. The PA and PAF on the other hand do have that mandate (re: Kashmir).
i will contest that. with rapid expansion if Pak Marines, we can forsee new warfare tactics being deployed to rapidly capture indian territory vis sea to move their reserves around
flanking gujrat is one example, from south move north towards dehli ..
 
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