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Evergrande: Every year billions of dollars in profit, huge short-term assets, why is it still on the verge of bankruptcy?

ChinaToday

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doing a hell of a lot better than VN ?? dude, CN GDP per capital in 1978 before Deng came and begged for some cheap Yen from JP and US was just 156.40 USD, even lower than India's one.

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What CN can do better is begging better than VN for money from the Jap who massacred 16 miilion CNese in ww2 :lol:

Thats why Evergrande collapse when daddy JP and US stop helping CN :lol:
What is your little Vietnam standing in the world Lmao a f@ck up no body and is just that. Until your country is in the top ten economy in the world then we might take what you said seriously.
 
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Hamartia Antidote

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US had enron too
Yes, and when a Wallstreet banker tipped off the US government of some Enron book cooking unlike the Chinese Government the US Government response was to go after Enron instead of the whistleblower...and when they determined the fraud accusations seemed legitimate...paid the whistleblower a $1.1 million reward!!


Guess what China will do to thank Citron...probably the usual deny...deny..deny..deny right to the very end. Any Chinese Evergrande whistleblowers are probably rotting in jail now.

AND to give future US whistleblowers more of an incentive to come forward they will receive 30% of the fraud amount...which could be in the billions.
 
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Viva_Viet

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The company is a Ponzi scheme. It takes money from one person and pays to another. Ccp becomes annoyed and stops it. It collapses.
The only person that gets rich is the boss. Chinese police should arrest him before he flees to Canada.
CN is just like Lybia when reaching GDP per capita of $10,000, they both don't know how to create enough good jobs for their people anymore, while factories (textile, auto parts, tire, electronic assembling etc) keep leaving bcs the bosses never pay 1,000 USD per month for workers who just do the same jobs like workers in VN where bosses only need to pay 430 USD per month.

So, CN and Lybia has no choice but relying on Ponzi scheme companies to creat jobs...and Evergarde is the first big Ponzi scheme company went busted while we all knew what happened to Lybia.

CN simply can't survive without help from daddy JP-US like in 1979.
Yes, and when a Wallstreet banker tipped off the US government of some Enron book cooking unlike the Chinese Government the US Government response was to go after Enron instead of the whistleblower...and when they determined the fraud accusations seemed legitimate...paid the whistleblower a $1.1 million reward!!


Guess what China will do to thank Citron...probably the usual deny...deny..deny..deny right to the very end. Any Chinese Evergrande whistleblowers are probably rotting in jail now.

AND to give future US whistleblowers more of an incentive to come forward they will receive 30% of the fraud amount...which could be in the billions.
After US Govt paid the whistleblower a $1.1 million reward!!, then it make US economy get better , but what happen after CN govt paid the whistleblower a $1.1 million reward ?? Nothing change. her economy is still in turmoil and falling bcs Biden still refuse to stop Trade war and lift 25% tariff, millions Chinese still remain jobless and still cant afford to buy houses :lol:

CN economy is just like Huawei and Evergrande, it relies deeply on US's mercy. If CN can't get technology and failed to make Biden stop santion, then theyw illl not survive in international market anymore :lol:
 
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MH.Yang

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A group of desperate losers climax in this theme.
They don't even know that Evergrande's crisis was deliberately triggered by the Chinese govt. And Evergrande's main debt comes from Wall Street. The Chinese don't care about Evergrande's bankruptcy at all, while Wall Street does.
 

Mista

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What is your little Vietnam standing in the world Lmao a f@ck up no body and is just that. Until your country is in the top ten economy in the world then we might take what you said seriously.
Don't know man, the irony. A Vietnamese consistently mocking China for slowing down after reaching $10K GDP per capita. Or someone with 430 USD pay mocking someone else with 1K USD pay for not having a good job.


CN is just like Lybia when reaching GDP per capita of $10,000, they both don't know how to create enough good jobs for their people anymore, while factories (textile, auto parts, tire, electronic assembling etc) keep leaving bcs the bosses never pay 1,000 USD per month for workers who just do the same jobs like workers in VN where bosses only need to pay 430 USD per month.
 

Viva_Viet

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A group of desperate losers climax in this theme.
They don't even know that Evergrande's crisis was deliberately triggered by the Chinese govt. And Evergrande's main debt comes from Wall Street. The Chinese don't care about Evergrande's bankruptcy at all, while Wall Street does.
Actually, Evergrande's bankruptcy is just like the fall Nanjing in WW2. Xi see no hope when Biden didn't stop trade war making million CNese remain jobless or salaries are reduced to half . Deliberately triggered or not doesn't change the fact that Xi can't save Evergrande, just like Chiang could not save Nanjing .:cool:
Don't know man, the irony. A Vietnamese consistently mocking China for slowing down after reaching $10K GDP per capita. Or someone with 430 USD pay mocking someone else with 1K USD pay for not having a good job.
Then tell me why CN bosses must pay 1000 usd per month for CN workers when they only need to pay 430 usd for VN workers ?? What can CN workers do after the bosses sacked them ?? the only thign they can do is just going out the streets and protest like those jobless and hopeless Lybian when bosses sacked them and hire foreign workers with just half of salaries compared to Lybian workers :pop:
 

MH.Yang

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Actually, Evergrande's bankruptcy is just like the fall Nanjing in WW2. Xi see no hope when Biden didn't stop trade war making million CNese remain jobless or salaries are reduced to half . Deliberately triggered or not doesn't change the fact that Xi can't save Evergrande, just like Chiang could not save Nanjing .:cool:

Then tell me why CN bosses must pay 1000 usd per month for CN workers when they only need to pay 430 usd for VN workers ?? What can CN workers do after the bosses sacked them ?? the only thign they can do is just going out the streets and protest like those jobless and hopeless Lybian when bosses sacked them and hire foreign workers with just half of salaries compared to Lybian workers :pop:
The Chinese CPI is 0.8%, and the unemployment rate is 5.2%. We should now be the country with the best economic situation in the world.

The world is counting on China to produce crazily and get them out of inflation. Why do you think China's unemployment rate is high? Our factory is short of manpower now.

You can Google how many times the price of containers in China has risen. This is because China has received too many orders.
 

MH.Yang

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Actually, Evergrande's bankruptcy is just like the fall Nanjing in WW2. Xi see no hope when Biden didn't stop trade war making million CNese remain jobless or salaries are reduced to half . Deliberately triggered or not doesn't change the fact that Xi can't save Evergrande, just like Chiang could not save Nanjing .:cool:

Then tell me why CN bosses must pay 1000 usd per month for CN workers when they only need to pay 430 usd for VN workers ?? What can CN workers do after the bosses sacked them ?? the only thign they can do is just going out the streets and protest like those jobless and hopeless Lybian when bosses sacked them and hire foreign workers with just half of salaries compared to Lybian workers :pop:
1, Evergrande's crisis was initiated by the Chinese govt. In August 2020, the Chinese govt required the asset liability ratio of real estate companies to be less than 70%. This led Evergrande to sell assets urgently and reduce the asset liability ratio.
2, The Chinese govt banned Evergrande from listing and raised funds through the stock market to reduce the debt ratio. This has exacerbated Evergrande's crisis.
3. The Chinese govt is cracking down on pseudo technology companies such as the real estate industry and DiDi, and guiding capital into the manufacturing industry. Moreover, the Chinese govt suppressed Chinese house prices by means of purchase restrictions and so on. This made Evergrande's asset sale not smooth.
4, By August 2021, Evergrande has 1.95 trillion CNY of debt, but they have 2.3 trillion CNY of assets. If they can sell 320 billion CNY of assets at the normal price, they can tide over the crisis.



Do you know why the Chinese govt refused to save Evergrande, even prevented Evergrande from listing and lending? And why western media keep sending articles ask China to save Evergrande?


According to Chinese law, the order in which the bankrupt company pays off its debts is as follows:
1st. Employees' wages.
2nd. Taxes,
3rd. Bank loans,
4th. Customer rights and interests.
5th. Debts of domestic enterprises.
6th. Debts of foreign enterprises.
7th. Shareholders' equity.


With regard to Evergrande's corporate debt, the top eight are Wall Street companies, including the US Department of defense pension fund and the federal pension fund. No. 9 is the Japanese Pension Fund.
Now it is not the Chinese who are most afraid of Evergrande's bankruptcy

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Viva_Viet

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The Chinese CPI is 0.8%, and the unemployment rate is 5.2%. We should now be the country with the best economic situation in the world.

The world is counting on China to produce crazily and get them out of inflation. Why do you think China's unemployment rate is high? Our factory is short of manpower now.

You can Google how many times the price of containers in China has risen. This is because China has received too many orders.
In 2020, Evergrande recorded revenue of about USD 106 billion, ranking 2nd in China, and its collapsing now, so pls don't give me any data from CN. CN CPI is 0.8%, and the unemployment rate is 5.2% , but next year, suddenly the unemployment rate is 50% and u will have another excuse for it again and keep saying CN economy is still fine again.

The world is NOT counting on China to produce anything except Rare earth, they only care if the products are good and cheap enough . Thats why Shenzhen has to tamps down wages to avoid China's manufacturing exodus.


CN factory is short of manpower now bcs the boss don't wanna pay 1000 usd per month for CN workers while they only need to pay 430 USD/month for VN workers to do the same jobs.CN bosses can not move all factories out of CN now just bcs CN govt forces them to stay in CN, not bcs they (bosses) want to keep their factories in CN now.

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But what Trump is doing now is making everyone panic, especially the smaller firms,” Zhou added.

Companies are also fearful of growing hostility from local governments in China, should they announce their plans to relocate. Officials do not want to lose the tax revenue, nor the employment the factories bring to local communities.

“I invested 3 million yuan (US$436,140) with a partner in 2017 to rent a 2,400-square-metre factory in Thu Dau Mot City, in the Binh Duong province of Vietnam, transferring four production queues and recruiting 80 workers there. The rent was already 22 yuan (US$3.20) per square metre and has now gone up to 28 yuan,” Zhou said.

“At that time, the economic atmosphere in China was still very good, and everyone was eager to expand investment. The local government in Dongguan was relatively relaxed and supportive of us relocating production to Vietnam. Now, several friends of mine are planning to move. Their costs will be definitely much higher than they were in 2017. Moreover, the local [Dongguan] government is not as nice as it used to be.”

Procedures are now strictly enforced by the local government in Dongguan,” Zhou added. “If you do not pay a large compensation package to make up for workers’ social security fees and other taxes, they will not let you move the machinery and equipment.


 
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MH.Yang

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Evergrande is a private company. CCP will bankrupt it.
One of the few times I agree with you. Obviously China's state-owned companies are going to swallow up the pieces.
Although the Chinese govt will not save Evergrande, it will not frame Evergrande. Evergrande has enough opportunities to save itself. It only needs to reduce the debt ratio to less than 70% to restore bank loans and return to A shares. Evergrande has no reason not to do what other real estate companies can do.
 

Hamartia Antidote

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including the US Department of defense pension fund
I don't think so. I believe Defense pension funds don't "grow". The amount paid every year is determined by Congress. So you don't get a statement every quarter saying your fund is up/down 30% because it wouldn't matter since you get paid whatever the predetermined amount is.

With regard to Evergrande's corporate debt, the top eight are Wall Street companies,
Now it is not the Chinese who are most afraid of Evergrande's bankruptcy

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I wouldn't worry about Wallstreet too deeply.


"Even as China Evergrande Group's bonds have fallen toward 25 cents on the dollar amid worries the developer will default, fund managers including BlackRock, UBS and HSBC Holdings have been increasing their holdings of the debt.

Some funds have added Evergrande bonds "given widening spreads and attractive valuations," said Patrick Ge, a research analyst at Morningstar. "This is in line with what we have heard from some managers where they said that at its current levels, they believe Evergrande is a buy."

As of June 30, BlackRock, UBS, HSBC and Ashmore Group were the biggest holders of Evergrande's international bonds, data compiled by Bloomberg shows, with a combined stash worth $1.3 billion at that time."

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BlackRock has Trillions under management. Increasing from just a Billion is a worthy gamble for some of their high risk investor funds if it pays out.
$1.3Billion in June was not much exposure.
 

Viva_Viet

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You can Google how many times the price of containers in China has risen. This is because China has received too many orders.
Its easy to explain. CN bosses don't wanna pay 1000 USD/month for CN workers to manufacture new containers, CN workers don't wanna work when they can not get 1,000 USD per month. CN govt forces the boss to keep the container factories in CN instead of moving to VN.... so, the consecquence is the price of containers in China has risen bcs CN bosses don't wanna make new containers when they don't get enough profit.
 

MH.Yang

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I don't think so. I believe Defense pension funds don't "grow". The amount paid every year is determined by Congress. So you don't get a statement every quarter saying your fund is up/down 30% because it wouldn't matter since you get paid whatever the predetermined amount is.



I wouldn't worry about Wallstreet too deeply.


Even as China Evergrande Group's bonds have fallen toward 25 cents on the dollar amid worries the developer will default, fund managers including BlackRock, UBS and HSBC Holdings have been increasing their holdings of the debt.

Some funds have added Evergrande bonds "given widening spreads and attractive valuations," said Patrick Ge, a research analyst at Morningstar. "This is in line with what we have heard from some managers where they said that at its current levels, they believe Evergrande is a buy."

As of June 30, BlackRock, UBS, HSBC and Ashmore Group were the biggest holders of Evergrande's international bonds, data compiled by Bloomberg shows, with a combined stash worth $1.3 billion at that time.

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BlackRock has Trillions under management. Increasing from just a Billion is a worthy gamble for some of their high risk investor funds if it pays out.
$1.3Billion in June was not much exposure.
It means that Wall Street knows that Evergrande will not go bankrupt, and you know. Then why send this thread? The Chinese government will not save Evergrande, and Evergrande must rely on itself, and Evergrande also has the ability to save itself.
 

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