Couldnt agree more.
Sadly our poeple get very emotional most of the time and loose the ability to rationalize and think properly. Couple that with 5th gen warfare and you have a society which is so divided that our enemies, who regularly used to bark, have stopped realizing they dont even need to fight us anymore, we will kill each other ourselves.
Every incident that occurred in Pakistan's history can be looked at and analysed from every point of view. That will take time and dedication to reach a conclusion if and how democracy or dictatorship helped or destroyed Pakistan and in what ways. Who benefited whom. Approaching USA by Jinnah after 1947. The growth of military power in Pakistan and why public accepted that growth of power till now. The threats that Pakistan faced from 47 till now, how they were manged and how they were curbed. The important part is public perception regarding Government, Army and their own life. Pakistani public is corrupt to the core, there is no denying this. That's why a corrupt system has survived and will survive in Pakistan. Then the party-worshiping because there are jiyalas and what not of PPP, and then the youthias of PTI and the tigers of PMLN. There have been leaders in past which had a personal impact on Pakistan, like Z A Bhutto, and maybe Ayub before that. One has to see how and when Pakistan flourished economically, under which Governments. Industrial setups and other progressions.
To see the replies, in this thread and even before also, these PDF members don't even know what they want. They are speaking what media is speaking. Tell me how many PDF members are directly affected by floods right now ? The daily attendance shows that same faces post everyday. They are sitting in their bedrooms, couches in lounges, working stations etc and posting curses like bots on endless loop. They are here to comment and commenting they are, but if you ask about knowledge, all the information is from media. No analysis from any book. No sound argument, just blind following of certain agendas and the oath to protect that agenda till death. That is the average Pakistani member sitting on PDF right now. If somebody is in Pakistan, its due to Military that they are sitting freely and posting online on PDF, thats enough for me to credit to Military. As for conspiracy theories, these members forget that there were many before them in the 60's, 70's, 80, 90's, 2000's who talked of conspiracy theories against Military - the Military survives and stands and there is no force that can ever undo Military. Its such a strong functioning paradigm that it has absorbed, survives, progressed, lost, won - under numerous COASs.
The video I posted about no help arriving from Australian Govt or Australian Army was to show that even in developed countries, a lot of politics, mismanagement etc happens. I was here, I saw it. Pick up any country in the world - the public dislikes its Government, many loved Trump, many hated him. Some think Republicans are saints, others worship democrats. Sooner or later, other factors start popping up, which differentiate a country from another. These can be circumstances, enemies, public, economy, geography, weather, GDP, and many other factors. Public of other countries cannot have the leaders they want too. Some can get back in power, there are chances that Trump may return as POTUS, who knows.
Coming back to cursing military - will that effect Military? No.
Military is a system that has been here before these PDF members were born and it will stay here after they die. Generals are corrupt, well so is the Pakistani public. Take out statistics, you will be surprised. Police is corrupt, so is public. Judges are corrupt, so is public. Government is corrupt, so is public. After all, aren't Pakistanis serving in these departments or were martians called upon to serve Pakistan ? DHA is a thorn in the neck for many, Army doesn;t care. DHA is not for these PDF members, its for members of the military who served the nation. DHA itself gives tax back to Pakistan. The public can judge every officer and say the worst about those officers, but military holds their career records and OEI. Accusations will get these PDF members nowhere, but it will build a negative environment on PDF. Some senior members, including me had to wake up mods to throw these members out of military discussion threads and allow them to thrive in the political cesspool, where they can throw dirt and eat dirt as much as they want.
As for slavery of USA, the dependency of a country on other countries is a reality. China cannot trade with in itself and become powerful globally. Tough decisions are taken as compromises due to own lack of resources and technology and other circumstances. That is a reality. Pakistan became nuclear power so India doesn't capture large parts of it and keeps them after war. However, being nuclear isn't a guarantee in other aspects. Most members are unaware or dont want to know but IAF doesn't give two hoots about JFT and J-10. The only pain for IAF is F-16 and PAF knows it.
Then another important point is "extremism". You will see extremism in PDF members. Stop everything with USA, cut off from USA, don't send officers to USA, USA is a devil, USA is evil etc. An ordinary lives with his devil everyday, doesn't he ? Can you cut off from your own devil ? NO. This is extremist thinking which is a part and parcel pf Pakistani public. Yes, USA has an attached-strings policy, but then there are ways around it. Military is handling USA quite well. Civil Government also handles USA in some way or another.We do not know what happens behind doors. We will never be told. But then things won't happen 100% as PDF members here want. So thats when the cursing and swearing starts. Is that how these members solve things in their lives ? is this what has been taught to them by their parents ? I mean they are showing their family values.
There are operational procedures, procurement procedures, course/officer transfer procedures etc that these members will never understand. Either their IQ level wouldn't allow them or their biased povs. Like I said, military functions in a certain way and its functioning successfully. If it needs a change, it brings that change through a certain procedure. Not through public pressure. This cannot be digested by members here. Who cares.
One thing that I have seen is that personality worshiping can end up as iconoclasm. They may worship IK but he is constantly making mistakes in his political career. These mistakes are allowed to IK, but as hell they can't be allowed to a General or any other political entity or party. A human makes mistakes, only God is perfect. IK may have given everybody a chance to throw mud at Military, but how is it useful ? Its not. He is creating a divide which is actually disastrous for Pakistan in general. In my books, IK is proved wrong, time and again. Its the Military that is on the forefront helping the public. The divide that IK tried to create gets narrower through a disaster. It may be Army's responsibility but Army can shrug it off too, just like Australian Military did a times. Now Australia is just one example. Pakistan Army didnt shrug it off. Army is handling it using its military resources. Give credit where due. IK failed at his attempts. Blind worshiping of IK is not healthy, no matter how you put it. Some say he opened eyes of public about Military, well if your eyes are open then look at sacrifices of Military for the floods too. High ranking officers have been lost, but close your eyes instantly. That didnt happen, IK says turn a blind eye, lol just like Simon says.
The Civil sector has to be made strong, in fact stronger, than the Military. Civil defense, police, judiciary, civil Government departments like irrigation, transport, commerce etc, they all have to be top notch. Only then the long lost dream of a prosperous Pakistan can be achieved. Military is a system, it has strengthened itself to such a degree that Civil system fails in front of it. Military is about COAS, but they change. PTI is just about IK, who will take over after IK. This is why I called military a system. PTI isn't a system, nor is PMLN. well PMLN or PPP are systems of "Gaddi nasheen". They will have a new heir ready just like Military has a COAS. The difference between political heir and military COAS is massive. For one, military COAS's are not heirs of COAS's, not even same blood line. and there are many more.
I can go on and on and on, but for me PDF is a learning portal. There is no learning when I repeat the same things as I already know them. How can somebody learn from extremism and cursing as well as tunnel vision. At least if I talk about military, I have been very close to them system, much closer than 95% of PDF. I can open a topic on every point I made, but I find that there is no learning for me then. I stopped replying to many also as one cant learn from them. I can engage thoroughly but as soon as I see they know nothing in reality but just garbling from hear say and from news/analysis of media, I lose interest as their foundations are weak.