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Embargoed F-16s: The untold story.

Donatello

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This statement is in correct. Pakistan never ordered 77 F-16. The order was for 36 Block 52’s. This was to be paid for from PAF funds. Musharraf visited China and on return he reduced the order to 18 aircrafts and the funds thus released were supposed to be spent on purchasing Chinese J-20 which was considered a more advanced plane than F-16 Block 52. There is thread in this forum where this matter has been discussed.

People may have forgotten that Musharraf book “In the line of fire” published in 2006 was No.3 on the best seller list within the first week. More than 70,000 hard copies were sold within a couple of months and it is still among one of the bestselling history books. Understand that more copies of this book were sold in India than in Pakistan and he was paid $1-million and some percentage from the sales.

What I’m saying is that no one has ever accused of Musharraf stealing PAF funds to finance his farm house. You can arguably accuse him of breaking Pakistan’s constitution & usurping power, but certainly not pocketing PAF funds. Please be clear that I am not a diehard fan of Musharraf but governance during his era was far better than during Zardari and Nawaz Sharif regimes.

PAF funds were not for earthquake relief. I have heard rumours that many countries didnot fully pay what was pledged for the earthquake.I know many from Mirpur and all say that Mirpur is now almost as it was before the earthquake. Cant' say the same about other places as I have no info.
Just a clarification, the talks were done for 72 BLK52s around 2004-5, and it was agreed (back channel, as usually it is done) that congress would pass the notification. However, PAF requested that the notification be sent for only 36 F-16s, which were then approved and out of those approved, PAF finally purchased 18. The reason given, at least to the public, was that in hard times of the Earthquake, spending billions on F-16s alone didn't make any sense.
 

TOPGUN

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Just a clarification, the talks were done for 72 BLK52s around 2004-5, and it was agreed (back channel, as usually it is done) that congress would pass the notification. However, PAF requested that the notification be sent for only 36 F-16s, which were then approved and out of those approved, PAF finally purchased 18. The reason given, at least to the public, was that in hard times of the Earthquake, spending billions on F-16s alone didn't make any sense.

The question remains is that is PAF going to go for further 18 blk 52's ?
 

Donatello

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The question remains is that is PAF going to go for further 18 blk 52's ?
The approval was there, but i do not know exactly if that approval is still valid with the new congress or has it expired. It would be nice to see 18 new BLK52s of course, along with sizable spares and armament so in case of embargos/relations going south, we can still have fleet ready for a full war. Just get them while you can......we can pick used MLUs later on as Turkey/Egypt/Jordan etc de-commission them.
 

Luftwaffe

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If PAF funds were not confiscated than why did PAF cancel even extra 18 orders when those funds were not meant for equake relief? It was Mush govt to seperately arrange monry to such relief efforts not take it from PAF....niaz relief apni jagha aur procurnment is at its place again I would blame musharraf or some one close to him as stupid advisors. Whatever one may have the opinion we lost golden opportunity to equip PAF with those extra 18+ F-16s. Once again...@MastanKhan

But personally I would like any govt to do audit of equake relief money being secured by musharraf govt lets be fair mush did not even release audit of it that any govt is bound to do.
 
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salman-1

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Musharaf did its best to open closed gates for F-16 and bought minimum quantity to safely ride with it, as Pressler could be imposed at any stage again if any more terrorist attacks happen. But US charged us $2.5 billion for 18 F-16 that was the main problem. We also had to MLU our old fleet and alot of spares and kits have to be imported from an un- trusted friend, so they got approval of 18 another by congress when ever safe. After that Mush gone the Bad Z shb came in and never gave funds to our Air Force. The Plan for our Air Force 2005-2025 upgrading was abandoned by Tahir Rafiq shb as IMF made condition for No deals more than $300/- for military purchase. Till now PAF is looking for cheap deals and asking for more funds for PAF.
 

Luftwaffe

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Musharaf did its best to open closed gates for F-16 and bought minimum quantity to safely ride with it, as Pressler could be imposed at any stage again if any more terrorist attacks happen. But US charged us $2.5 billion for 18 F-16 that was the main problem. We also had to MLU our old fleet and alot of spares and kits have to be imported from an un- trusted friend, so they got approval of 18 another by congress when ever safe. After that Mush gone the Bad Z shb came in and never gave funds to our Air Force. The Plan for our Air Force 2005-2025 upgrading was abandoned by Tahir Rafiq shb as IMF made condition for No deals more than $300/- for military purchase. Till now PAF is looking for cheap deals and asking for more funds for PAF.
Please do not say unreliable source some country is giving F-16s to Pakistan and you call them unreliable that is unfair they even sold you large quantities of AMRAAMs. As for IMF poor foreign policies of GOP, Armed Forces budget should not come under any imf/world bank deals/negotiations it is matter of national security this has to be put into Air Chief's mind and his so called senior advisors. Guess what Chief sahib met PM third time in 2 years PAF really been deprived of funds. It is ACM job to convey strong message demands to GOP not being weak in apologitic manner.
 
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syedali73

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Please do not say unreliable source some country is giving F-16s to Pakistan and you call them unreliable that is unfair they even sold you large quantities if AMRAAMs. As for IMF poor foreign policies of GOP, Armed Forces budget should not come under any imf/world bank deals/negotiations it is matter of national security this has to be put into Air Chief's mind and his so called senior advisors. Guess what Chief sahib met PM third time in 2 years PAF really been deprived of funds.It is ACM job to convey strong message demands to GOP not being weak in apologitic manner.
Problem is, while it may not be as true for Army, but the appointed Chiefs of the Air force and Navy are usually 'apndey bandey', hence expecting them to give a strong message to the GoP is perhaps expecting too much from them.
 

Luftwaffe

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independentpost: 6753491 said:
Problem is, while it may not be as true for Army, but the appointed Chiefs of the Air force and Navy are usually 'apndey bandey', hence expecting them to give a strong message to the GoP is perhaps expecting too much from them.
Strong independent ACM should lead Organization who can demand and convey message clearly in a commanding manner not like woh Badshah salamat ji agar pason ka bandobast ho jays to shukaria which is currently taking place.
 
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Najam Khan

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The question remains is that is PAF going to go for further 18 blk 52's ?
No more Bk52s; However PAF would love to get cheaper F-16A/B airframes (provided they have 50% life remaining before any upgrade.)

Strong independent ACM should lead Organization who can demand and convey message clearly in a commanding manner not like woh Badshah salamat ji agar pason ka bandobast ho jays to shukaria which is currently taking place.
Unfortunately CAS can't dictate Govt if funds are not made available on time. These are long-term projects broken into four QPRs for one year, if allocated funds in some cost-heads are not made available in one QPR they arrive in latter ones.
But to get things speed up; they do lobbying with CJSC/COAS to put some extra pressure. They formal meetings of COAS/CAS with PM sahab is not just *chaaey paani* its more related to update PM on the needs of forces & requirements/availability of funds.
 

Ind4Ever

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Who is this air attaché Shahid? What is his full name? I hope it is not AVM (rtd) Shahid Lateef.

Has this been discussed with reference to the information given by Mrs Abida Hussein in her biography? And who you want to learn from the history? Us? or the corrupt politicians and civil/military bureaucrats whose 'black hole' stomachs never get filled with haram money?
Sir can you tell me what really happened ? Corruption on procurement ?
 

Luftwaffe

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Unfortunately CAS can't dictate Govt if funds are not made available on time. These are long-term projects broken into four QPRs for one year, if allocated funds in some cost-heads are not made available in one QPR they arrive in latter ones.
But to get things speed up; they do lobbying with CJSC/COAS to put some extra pressure. They formal meetings of COAS/CAS with PM sahab is not just *chaaey paani* its more related to update PM on the needs of forces & requirements/availability of funds.
Lets hope this time this is the case but my opinion whether it matters or not ACS must have a strong voice/presence it is he who is going to lead air force into the air war and future not Army Chief ...Thunder and F-16s are one of most imp programs and should be funded without if buts or keeping economy into perspective nobody wants to see another Argentinean like Govt.
 

MastanKhan

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Strong independent ACM should lead Organization who can demand and convey message clearly in a commanding manner not like woh Badshah salamat ji agar pason ka bandobast ho jays to shukaria which is currently taking place.
Hi,

For that the military would have to select its leaders----can't let the politicians do that.
 

Luftwaffe

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Hi,

For that the military would have to select its leaders----can't let the politicians do that.
Unfortunate part is an incompatent PM has pick a candidate and he and his new brotherhood zardari likes to pick jee hazoor ppl or atleast someone who doesn`t want to lose job. As for military they could if they become independent and not let politicians run the show. Up till early 80s ACMs were with strong identity for an organization but that has gone...Army Chief has his domain he shouldn't`be consultant or boss for AF and Navy pathetic for Air Force to ask army chief to request funds for Air Force or navy from GOP.
 
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Donatello

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No more Bk52s; However PAF would love to get cheaper F-16A/B airframes (provided they have 50% life remaining before any upgrade.)
Are you sure about that? Because the recent news is that PAF is looking to procure 8 more BLK52s, think about it, if FBR managed to collect Rs 200 billion in additional taxes this year and next, they can procure a 18 BLK52 batch right away.

Secondly, used MLUs with 50% life will be extremely hard to find. Why would anyone have kept F-16s and still have 50% life on them?
 

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