• Wednesday, January 23, 2019

Elon Musk asks Trump to kill American auto companies in China

Discussion in 'China & Far East' started by qwerrty, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. qwerrty

    qwerrty SENIOR MEMBER

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    Tesla chief Musk says China trade rules uneven, asks Trump for help


    WASHINGTON/SHANGHAI: Tesla Inc Chief Executive Elon Musk took to Twitter on Thursday (Mar 8) to call on US President Donald Trump to challenge China's auto trade rules, which limit foreign ownership of Chinese ventures and impose steep tariffs on imported cars.

    In a series of tweets aimed at the president, Musk said he was "against import duties in general, but the current rules make things very difficult. It's like competing in an Olympic race wearing lead shoes."

    Tesla has been pushing hard to build cars in China, the world's largest auto market, but has hit roadblocks in negotiations with local authorities, in part because Musk is keen to keep full control of any local venture.

    "No US auto company is allowed to own even 50 per cent of their own factory in China, but there are five 100 per cent China-owned EV (electric vehicle) auto companies in the US," Musk wrote in another tweet.

    Do you think the US & China should have equal & fair rules for cars? Meaning, same import duties, ownership constraints & other factors.

    — Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 8, 2018
    Tesla "raised this with the prior administration and nothing happened. Just want a fair outcome, ideally where tariffs/rules are equally moderate. Nothing more. Hope this does not seem unreasonable," he said.

    Trump quoted one of Musk's tweets in his announcement on new tariffs and said American automakers have not been treated fairly by trade rules around the world. Trump announced steep tariffs on steel and aluminum imports on Thursday.

    Politicians "have known it for years and never did anything about it. It's got to change," Trump said, saying he plans to impose a "reciprocal tax" on other countries. "We're changing things," Trump added. "We just want fairness."

    Tesla has sought to build a factory in the Chinese financial capital of Shanghai, and last November Musk said he hoped the plant would be operating within three years. However, Tesla and Chinese authorities have yet to announce an agreement.

    The Shanghai Municipal Commission of Commerce did not immediately respond to calls and faxed requests for comment. Telsa officials in China declined to comment.

    China has said it will look to lower import taxes for cars and carry out a pilot scheme to loosen foreign ownership rules for new energy vehicles, a term China uses to refer to fully-electric and plug-in hybrid cars.

    FAIR OUTCOME?

    Late Thursday, Musk struck a more hopeful tone. "To be clear, I think a fair outcome for all is quite likely. China has already shown a willingness to open their markets and I believe they will do the right thing," he said on Twitter.

    Tesla shares closed down 1 per cent on Thursday and were off nearly another percent in after-market trading.

    China, which is making a major push toward electric cars, requires foreign automakers to build factories in 50-50 joint ventures with domestic Chinese automakers and not allowed them to establish wholly owned factories.

    Trump told Reuters in an interview in January that "we have helped to build China because they have taken out so much money in terms of trade deficits with this country."

    He added that "when China or another country charges us 50 percent tariffs – more than that in some cases – and we charge them nothing, that's not fair. That's not fair."

    China levies a 25 per cent duty on sales of imported vehicles. Those are problems for Tesla, which wants to expand its presence in China's growing electric vehicle market without compromising its independence or intellectual property.

    Musk noted that a US car "going to China pays 25 per cent import duty, but a Chinese car coming to the US only pays 2.5 per cent, a tenfold difference." He asked Trump: "Do you think the US & China should have equal & fair rules for cars? Meaning, same import duties, ownership constraints & other factors."

    Trump said the United States plans to charge countries a "mirror tax" for what American products face.

    Musk has met with Trump on several occasions since his election in November 2016. In June 2017, Musk withdrew from a pair of White House advisory councils after Trump said he would withdraw from the Paris climate accord.

    Source: Reuters/zl


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    china’s car market share in the US is zero. this elon musk is very bad guy. if he can’t have the chinese market, he won't let GM and ford enjoying all the profit :D
     
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  2. TaiShang

    TaiShang ELITE MEMBER

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    One brilliant mind deploring to another one, which is good. China has a good trump card at hand called GM and Ford, and, indeed, this guy is very smart putting those companies in jeopardy in China's market.
     
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  3. My-Analogous

    My-Analogous SENIOR MEMBER

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    China should put banned on Telsa. Market lost put him back to senses.
     
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  4. Ryuzaki

    Ryuzaki SENIOR MEMBER

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    How many China made vehicles are sold in the US?
     
  5. powastick

    powastick FULL MEMBER

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    Musk can forget about China. Not like his car were great.
     
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  6. AMCA

    AMCA SENIOR MEMBER

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    Ban on what grounds? that he tweeted advocating for fair rules?

    International Trade Organization: Umm Lets see, Elon questioned china, so lets turn a blind eye on the ban.
    China: Hurraaaay !!
    United States/Elon: Wait! what? WTF????
     
  7. rizhussain44

    rizhussain44 FULL MEMBER

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    Please help me understand. If China already has strict rules for US companies operating in China, what else can it do to make it further difficult for any US auto makers in China? I am trying to understand what move from China can effect companies like GM or Ford and their business in China
     
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  8. TaiShang

    TaiShang ELITE MEMBER

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    That's the gist of the matter. In fact, China is a much bigger market for GM (and probably for Ford, as well) than the US is.

    And they complain they have to start joint ventures to sell cars in China. In fact, they can import and try to sell cars not made in a joint venture, but that will be very expensive and will be sidelined -- especially given that China's companies are now producing Euro-NCAP 5-star cars at affordable prices.

    I guess the joint venture rule is not limited to China. Many developing countries observe similar rules.

    So, that snake-oil salesman can perform stunts on gullible people back home by selling his debt-ridden company like a success, but, his smart does not cut in China.

    No strict rules on specifically US companies. The rules are universal, applying to Japan or Germany. Yet, they do not whine, but go with the law of the land. Just as probably GM or Ford do. They will likely ask that Musk to shut up because his demand does not make sense and risky for US auto companies in China.

    China does have rules, not strict rules. Just as any country has various rules/laws. Japan is another case. No one in East Asia is willing to become plundering ground for foreign companies with no value added and real benefits.

    In China, one of the laws goes that to benefit from China's market, you need to set up joint ventures (at least 50/50) with a domestic investor. Then the company will benefit from all the tax breaks etc. Otherwise, imported autos will be taxed heavily.
     
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  9. Zsari

    Zsari FULL MEMBER

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    National security ground? It's not like US is the only one who can use that to their advantage. Just take some imagination.
     
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  10. Actuary

    Actuary FULL MEMBER

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    Asians cry out in pain as they strike you.

    Time to cut off all contact.
     
  11. Chinese-Dragon

    Chinese-Dragon PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Tesla made a $2 billion net loss in the last year ALONE.

    They will never turn a profit without the largest consumer market on the planet, i.e. China.

    We should straight up ban these companies from China like they banned Huawei in the US.
     
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  12. Actuary

    Actuary FULL MEMBER

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    Tesla will eventually become profitable once the US uses its influence to ban gas cars.

    Also, Huawei is sketchy with deep ties to the Chinese government. Get Huawei off the Chinese government's control and maybe the US will allow it.
     
  13. Chinese Commie

    Chinese Commie FULL MEMBER

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    every other countries in the world has allowed Huawei to participate in its market, but why only the US hasn't? Huawei has passed all the EU regulations. Can you specify any US laws that were broken by the Chinese phones? There is no logical explanation to this other than this simply being a petty little witch-hunt.
     
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  14. HannibalBarca

    HannibalBarca SENIOR MEMBER

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    Old cases of Phones being "insecure" for the US ppl...
    Meaning "China could have info via those phone"...

    They were case of CN made phones with embedded software to send datas, they weren't Huawei though in those cases...but still for that particular case... they were Chinese...

    Does Huawei harmful? Maybe Yes or Maybe not... In the End the Question is not really that... it's mostly to let you know... " That if China do not open her Market to Foreigners/US, Why should the US keep opening his for China?"

    I think it's fair game... The EU want to impose more regulation in that matter... Per exemple France, where they gonna ban Chinese investor in Farmlands... You may see it as unfair... But you have to understand...That China DO NOT ALLOW foreigners to invest/own farm lands...

    When you want something... The basic respect is to give the equal/same...opportunity in return.

    PS: China did the same with Apple and their Iphones back in the days...
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  15. Chinese Commie

    Chinese Commie FULL MEMBER

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    Apple has all the market it needs in China.

    The specific question is why Chinese phones, and only Chinese phones?

    There is not a single evidence that Huawei's current phone lineup has any spying capability that is against the US law. No evidence.

    Any electrical products from China can have added "spy" capability. Why not ban all of them?

    If you talk about "equal/same...opportunity" then I could also argue that the state right now is not equal and China has to ban Apple in return to make this equal. This is clearly not productive, and frankly, a shitty argument.
     
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