• Wednesday, July 8, 2020

Egypt’s MiG-29M vs. Turkey’s F-16C: Which Fighter Would Prevail in a Clash Over Libya?

Discussion in 'Military Forum' started by Austin Powers, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. Austin Powers

    Austin Powers BANNED

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    https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...h-fighter-would-prevail-in-a-clash-over-libya

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    As long-standing tensions between Egypt and Turkey worsen over their ongoing support for opposing sides in Libya’s civil war, Cairo has threatened military intervention which could bring it into direct conflict with Turkish forces already deployed on Libyan territory. The Turkish military presence in Libya has seriously undermined the war effort of the Libyan National Army, which is receiving support from Egypt and the United Arab Emirates and has been bolstered on the battlefield by Russian military contractors. Turkey has also deployed a number of Syrian jihadist militant units to the Libyan front, after these units received training and support in their attempt to overthrow the Syrian government over the last decade, and their campaign in Libya has been backed by Turkish officers and drone units which have taken a heavy toll on the national army.

    With reports that Turkey could deploy F-16C fighter jets to support its war effort in Libya, an Egyptian intervention would likely require the Egyptian Air Force to tackle this threat. The vast majority of Egypt’s fighter fleet is effectively obsolete for high intensity air to air combat, and while it is itself one of the world’s largest operators of the F-16C Egypt has not been provided with access to AIM-120 active radar guided missiles forcing them to rely on obsolete AIM-7 missiles from the 1980s. Turkey’s F-16s, too, use dated missile designs from the 1990s - the AIM-120B. These are considerably superior than the AIM-7 deployed by Egypt and benefit from active rather than semi-active radar guidance, but their electronic warfare countermeasures are limited and their range is restricted to just 75km. The majority of F-16 users today such as Pakistan, Morocco and South Korea deploy the AIM-120C which is considerably more capable with a range exceeding 100km.

    While Egypt’s F-16s are poorly suited to engaging Turkish fighters, its most capable aircraft for air to air combat, the MiG-29M, is more likely to be used. Following the overthrow of Egypt’s western aligned islamist government in 2013 the coutnry notably moved to enhanced its Air Force with new fighter classes, most notably the MiG-29M, small numbers of the French Rafale and more recently the Su-35 heavyweight air superiority platform which has yet to be delivered. Egypt’s Rafale jets have yet to be equipped with modern long range air to air missiles, making the MiG-29M the most suitable fighter to engage the Turkish Air Force. When comparing the fighter’s air to air engagement range with that of Turkish F-16s, the Egyptian fighter can engage at up to 130km with the R-27ER missile and up to 110km with the R-77 missile. Both of these are much newer and carry heavier warheads than the F-16’s AIM-120B and have much longer ranges.

    Beyond their missile capabilities, the Egyptian fighters hold very significant other advantages. The aircraft can operate at much higher altitudes of around 19km, compared to the F-16’s 15km flight ceiling, and are faster with the ability to reach Mach 2.25 where the F-16 cannot exceed Mach 2. The Egyptian fighters are also a lot more manoeuvrable with a superior thrust/weight ratio, and can accommodate slightly larger radars. Perhaps the most significant advantage Egyptian fighters will have in a clash over Libya its their ability to undermine the Turkish Air Force’s ability to operate in the theatre, deploying advanced standoff missiles capable of striking possible airbases while Turkey’s ability to strike the far more numerous airfields on Egyptian territory will be limited. Turkish fighters will also be forced to rely on aerial refuelling to operate over Libya, which given Egypt’s very large range advantage when looking at its air to air missiles represents a significant vulnerability, as Turkish fighters will struggle to protect their refuelling tankers without long range air to air missiles of their own. Ultimately Egypt can be assured of a qualitative advantage in the air if deploying the MiG-29M, although this could change should Turkey attempt to purchase the AIM-120C missile for its American made fighters in the near future which would reduce the discrepancy favouring MiG-29. The Egyptian advantage is set to grow considerably by the end of 2021 as the country looks to field its first Su-35 squadron, with the fighters coming from a much higher weight range, being much more modern and fielding far superior capabilities to either the F-16 or the MiG-29.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
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  2. Austin Powers

    Austin Powers BANNED

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    MiG-29 is more like F-18, bigger and twin engined compared to F-16. Turkey has AESA AWACs. Egypt does not. Egypt would have to rely on UAE and Greece's AESA AWACs in the event of war with Turkey since both UAE and Greece hate Turkey.

    @IAU @Figaro @vostok @Yaseen1 @KAL-EL
     
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  3. Ultima Thule

    Ultima Thule ELITE MEMBER

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    Tell me how many kills your beloved MIG-29M at his sleeve???, F-16 is second best kill rate after F-15 in the world 50 and a 0
     
  4. Austin Powers

    Austin Powers BANNED

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    MiG-29M easily outmatches F-16C. In terms of avionics and weaponry.
     
  5. Ultima Thule

    Ultima Thule ELITE MEMBER

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    in your point you Yes but in reality No, Mig-29M avionics and man machine interface, cockpit design is quite backward from F-16C
     
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  6. KAL-EL

    KAL-EL PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    I happen to like F-18s
     
  7. Austin Powers

    Austin Powers BANNED

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    MiG-29M has more advanced avionics than F-16C. Quadruplex FBW compared to triplex FBW.

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/fighters/mig-29m/

    MiG-29M has 3 LCDs

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Ultima Thule

    Ultima Thule ELITE MEMBER

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    And F-16 is first fighter jet in the world that utilized FBW tech (first analog then digital) and F-16 has also Quadruplex FBW
     
  9. Yaseen1

    Yaseen1 ELITE MEMBER

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    it will depend on pilot capabilities and training
     
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  10. Ultima Thule

    Ultima Thule ELITE MEMBER

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  11. The SC

    The SC ELITE MEMBER

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    Forgot the Rafale and Mirage 2000?
    Turkey said it won't commit its armed forces anyway.. .. so this tread is empty of any sense..
     
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  12. XTQ1999

    XTQ1999 FULL MEMBER

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    None of your aircraft have BVR missiles, while each Turkish F-16 can carry 6 AIM-120C-7s
     
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  13. LeGenD

    LeGenD MODERATOR

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    Much like Su-30 MKI was supposed to be better than F-16 MLU (Block 40) but Operation Swift Retort established otherwise?

    Why do you subscribe to these childish comparisons?

    I also noticed another thread in which you were comparing J-10C to F-16 Block 70/72? Like seriously? Both are remarkable deigns but let me tell you something.

    There are domains in which USA utterly outclass Russians and Chinese; domains which include aviation-related considerations including design of high performance microprocessors, sensor systems, engines and LO principles. These minute details make considerable difference in the overall output of a combat aircraft.

    There are aspects to American combat aircraft which cannot be overcome through kinematics where Russian and Chinese offerings usually shine. This isn't to say that American airframes cannot match them in this area, these are capable of remarkable maneuvers as well and without TVC.

    Of even greater significance is the netcentric warfare considerations of NATO which put everything Russian to shame and even Russian leaders have begrudgingly admitted as much in their reports.

    Russia's most powerful weapon is this: PROPAGANDA

    In a hypothetical war between Turkey and Egypt, Turkey is very likely to come out on top because it has NATO-standard equipment and netcentric warfare capabilities, and very good pilots. Even Russians will not dare invade Turkey like they did to Ukraine.

    Don't be under any illusion.
     
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  14. Philip the Arab

    Philip the Arab BANNED

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    All new aircraft have BVR, what are you talking about?
     
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  15. Tom_Cruise

    Tom_Cruise FULL MEMBER

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    He's a kid, he's been doing these childish comparisons for months now. He thinks hes an aviation expert by saying ridiculous things like oh Mig29 is similar to F18 and has 2 engines so its superior to the F16! And now he's posting cockpit pictures to suggest Mig29 is superior :laugh: He is an absolute toad.
     
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