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Ghostkiller

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@Gomig-21 @The SC @Hydration @MXX_13 @sami_1 looks like FA-50 won the deal and not the Tejas MK1A


Egypt, China, and PL-15 BVRAAM talks
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The Egyptian Ministry of Military Production (MoMP) is reported to be close to finalizing a deal with China for the procurement of PL-15 beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles (BVRAAM).Egypt is said ...
And mount them one what hahaha?
 

sami_1

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We have another point of view on the news, especially that the announcement of the winner of the tender will be in 2023. There are also other developments related to the problems of Korea winning the Malaysian tender, in which complaints were submitted, and there are investigations in the Malaysian government against the South Korean winning the missing prize after the objection of India and China, each of whom is considered to have submitted a better offer than the Korean. Artistic and financial

 

sami_1

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Regarding the news of Egypt, China, and PL-15 BVRAAM talks

The point here is related to the Chinese PL-15E missile propulsion system, which made the cost of the missile much lower than that of competing missiles such as the Meteor and even the guided missile under development, the Astra Mk3.
Which India also decided to go for another version
DRDO plans to develop a new air-to-air missile that has traditional solid fuel propulsion but with a wider dimension that will allow it to reach the 280km+ mark while costing half as much that could have cost for an Air-breathing ramjet propulsion BVRAAM.
J-20_PL-15a.jpg

This shows that the main factors will be cost and technology transfer
Any country will benefit from Egypt obtaining production licenses from them, because Egypt will supply fighters and drones with them, and also even air defense copies of them. Therefore, the required numbers will be large, unlike the high-cost European Meteor missiles, whose performance is not equal to the high cost of them.
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There is a history of cooperation between Egypt and China in air-to-air missiles
Starting from the production of the Chinese version of the PL-7 of the French MAGIC-II missile, to the attempt to produce the MICA missile in 2009.
To illustrate a simple example, the price of the Chinese missile is half the cost of the price of the French missile, which makes Egypt able to meet the requirements of the required numbers of local production by making there an ability to develop the missile to increase the range in case of need and not adhere to any export restrictions.

There is a global tendency to move away from the American and European restrictions in armaments. The Japanese themselves have failed to cooperate with the American company Lockheed Martin in the Japanese next-generation fighter.

And Europe turned to South Korea in the self-propelled gun, and no one cares about America and its weapons and restrictions.

There are indications that China is offering ammunition solutions for old fourth-generation fighters such as the F-16 & Mirage-2000 to raise their efficiency away from the original producers who use this aircraft as a means of political and armament pressure for the countries that operate it, and it makes countries turn to Chinese solutions and ignore the American and European restrictions

Possession of countries such as India with AESA radar technology and other countries makes the establishment of AESA radar production projects to develop other fighters available, such as Russian fighters that serve many countries at a low cost. The future is for Asia, not for Europe and America.
 

Ghostkiller

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Regarding the news of Egypt, China, and PL-15 BVRAAM talks

The point here is related to the Chinese PL-15E missile propulsion system, which made the cost of the missile much lower than that of competing missiles such as the Meteor and even the guided missile under development, the Astra Mk3.
Which India also decided to go for another version
DRDO plans to develop a new air-to-air missile that has traditional solid fuel propulsion but with a wider dimension that will allow it to reach the 280km+ mark while costing half as much that could have cost for an Air-breathing ramjet propulsion BVRAAM.
View attachment 901986
This shows that the main factors will be cost and technology transfer
Any country will benefit from Egypt obtaining production licenses from them, because Egypt will supply fighters and drones with them, and also even air defense copies of them. Therefore, the required numbers will be large, unlike the high-cost European Meteor missiles, whose performance is not equal to the high cost of them.
View attachment 901987


There is a history of cooperation between Egypt and China in air-to-air missiles
Starting from the production of the Chinese version of the PL-7 of the French MAGIC-II missile, to the attempt to produce the MICA missile in 2009.
To illustrate a simple example, the price of the Chinese missile is half the cost of the price of the French missile, which makes Egypt able to meet the requirements of the required numbers of local production by making there an ability to develop the missile to increase the range in case of need and not adhere to any export restrictions.

There is a global tendency to move away from the American and European restrictions in armaments. The Japanese themselves have failed to cooperate with the American company Lockheed Martin in the Japanese next-generation fighter.

And Europe turned to South Korea in the self-propelled gun, and no one cares about America and its weapons and restrictions.

There are indications that China is offering ammunition solutions for old fourth-generation fighters such as the F-16 & Mirage-2000 to raise their efficiency away from the original producers who use this aircraft as a means of political and armament pressure for the countries that operate it, and it makes countries turn to Chinese solutions and ignore the American and European restrictions

Possession of countries such as India with AESA radar technology and other countries makes the establishment of AESA radar production projects to develop other fighters available, such as Russian fighters that serve many countries at a low cost. The future is for Asia, not for Europe and America.
The problem is that USA will refuse to let us mount Chinese armaments on F-16 and same thing with France. Plus Mirage 2Ks are going to be retired this decade. So let's hope for the best.
 

Foinikas

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100 T-50s?! 😮

 

sami_1

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The problem is that USA will refuse to let us mount Chinese armaments on F-16 and same thing with France. Plus Mirage 2Ks are going to be retired this decade. So let's hope for the best.
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The F-16 planes in Egypt began entering service 40 years ago. We are not talking about a modern plane, and therefore you find development programs for the F-16 from multiple countries that have nothing to do with the United States, which reduces the importance of upgrading them or considering them essential to US military sales, as their era has ended

Accepting or rejecting America is not an area of importance, in fact, weapons are used to defend the interests of countries and their national security, and it will not be an area of blackmail from the United States or accept it. All countries that establish and develop a military industry without American desire, acceptance or consent in the first place When America refuses to supply the development of a major fighter program in the Air Force, it is well known to the American side that there is an alternative that will enter, even if America refuses or agrees. American companies such as Lockheed Martin have a policy which is to allow some developments to pass on condition that they are not made public, because in the event of the American refusal it is unacceptable for any country to contract on an American weapon in the future knowing full well that it is an American means of pressure in the future, so America loses its international markets, so in this case there is flexibility In disregarding developments or updates on the plane, we will illustrate a simple example: America accepts the development of the Turkish F-16, because it knows fully that if it refuses, the Turks will not care about them. That is, America will also be forced to agree to development programs So why does America agree to extend the life of the F-16 fighters in countries like Egypt simply because it is a source of income for American companies, whether PW or GE? The search for an inevitable alternative, which will also be reflected in Egypt's purchase of an aircraft such as the T-50, as it is a joint venture between Lockheed Martin and KAI. EGYPT has entered into war and conflict with any country, starting from Israel, passing through Turkey, to Iran or Ethiopia. Egypt will wait for America's approval to load air missiles. Joe, of course, not the planes. Egypt bought them, whether with cash or with military aid. Egypt has the right to use them whenever and however they want to protect Egyptian national security. When Egyptian national security conflicts with America's desires or American restrictions, it cannot be taken into consideration. We clarify another point. America objected to the sale of Rafale & Eurofighter Typhoon fighters to Egypt or even the T-50 The solution will be alternatives to other Russian MIG-35/SU-57 or Chinese J-10/30/31 and the same thing as the Indian TEJAS with other engines such as the RD-33. The result is that America will lose more. America’s acceptance of the sale of RAFALE & EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON planes or even 120 T-50 planes. What does it mean? The astronomical cost of purchasing these fighters affects the Egyptian military budget and increases the size of the Egyptian Air Force as a result of the huge cost that the Egyptian budget will bear. It is also a means of pressure on the armament and ammunition provided to Egypt, and we see reluctance American and European METEOR & SCLAP missiles And he is leading on the numbers that Egypt can obtain, that is, the sales of European fighters achieve America’s interests in weakening the ability of the Egyptian Air Force with limited numbers of fighters, ammunition, and a means of pressure on Egypt by imposing forces on it that Europe will inevitably adhere to in the end, which makes Egypt in this case its ability to carry out a war Long, low and very weak Egypt will not leave 200 F-16 fighters without good arming or even developing their avionics to be effective in any war in which Egypt enters. It will not give up half of the air force. The same thing, the MIRAGE-2000 fighters were developed with electronic warfare systems from Italy without the consent of France, simply because the French development doubled the cost of the Italian development, and Egypt did not ask France for permission. Rather, we clarify a more important point, for example, in the RAFALE aircraft deal. Whenever the number of aircraft increases,

Egypt obtains French approvals to integrate other ammunition for it that is not of French origin, because this increases the aircraft’s export attractiveness. We have seen that India, in order to buy a new batch of RAFALE aircraft, requested the integration of Indian ammunition, and France agreed. Even before signing any deals or contracts, because any contract order has conditions required by the buying country, the exporting country, if it does not accept the terms of the importing country, the importing country will be directed to another source. The West also has many problems related to the confiscation of Saudi weapons. For example, it turned to the FC-31 plane and financed the plane's development program in exchange for its local production. Therefore, it did not find a need to contract on Rafale & Eurofighter Typhoon planes and requested the production of Spanish ships armed with Chinese ammunition. Saudi Arabia and the UAE are negotiating the purchase of a quantity of BARAHMOS missiles and Russian hypersonic missiles. Was any of them interested in accepting America or Europe? The European temptation is to sell arms to Egypt with loans to ensure the operation of their factories with the least amount of technology transfer or development of their equipment. To clarify a very simple point, China sells the FC-31 fighter for $100 million with ammunition that Europe has no equal in the field of various missiles, including Surprise Sonic missiles of various types and models, without any acceptance of the required quantities, while European fighters were sold at prices between $225-250 million to the Gulf and with restrictions. On ammunition and missiles, then they implemented a ban on selling ammunition to Saudi Arabia later, so Saudi Arabia turned to the Chinese source. Did the Saudis care about America’s opinion or objection to it?
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One last point, we assume that America refused to integrate the PL-15 missile into the F-16 plane. Not only is it a loss for the reputation of the American weapon, it has become America's tool and restraint for pressure against Egypt, but simply Egypt will not buy any major weapon from America again and many other countries, and it will later get rid of the fleet of thousands 16 Starting with taking out the old one and using part of it as spare parts for the rest of the fleet and buying alternative aircraft such as the J-10/31. This is what happened with the Soviets in the past. Egypt in the end does not place any value on the superpowers in front of its interests.
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America actually refuses to supply any advanced or important weapons to the Egyptian army, simply rejecting multiple American deals such as the CH-47/C-130J AIM-120D and even sufficient numbers of Hellfire missiles or American ammunition such as AGM-158 JASSM / JSOW AGM-154 / HARM- ER Therefore, what is the value of Egypt completing it with the consent of America, when it has not really reached what it wants, and its relationship with America in the field of armaments is a loss for Egypt?


The United States is already taking hostile steps against Egypt, as the rise in the American interest rate has led to disasters facing the Egyptian economy. Has America cared about the interests of Egypt and other countries, of course not? Egypt and many countries of the world insist on that, and no one will care about America, as it declared an economic war on the countries of the world so that the American economy that consumes does not fall
 
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Ghostkiller

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100 T-50s?! 😮

It is logic because we have at least 100 of old K8 and Alpha Jet aircraft plus some other aircraft.
 

sami_1

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It is logic because we have at least 100 of old K8 and Alpha Jet aircraft plus some other aircraft.

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There is a point absent from consciousness, the K-8E plane will not be out of service soon at all. The plane has already undergone a upgrade program with China, which is the program that China is offering a derivative version of as the K-8NG.
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It is called the mid-life development program and is related to the development of at least 118 aircraft until 2030. The aircraft will serve 14,000 flying hours or 40 years of continuous service if the life of the aircraft is not extended.
To illustrate a simple example, the Alpha jet plane has been operating since 1983 and will be permanently removed from service in 2030 after the entry of the new plane.
Simply put, the K-8E will begin to phase out of service in 2040 to 2050, depending on the age of the plane and its flight hours.
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Regarding the tender for the advanced training aircraft, the final offers have not been submitted yet, and the tender has not yet been completed. However, preliminary agreements in the field of aircraft contracts are followed. For example, Indian companies have an agreement such as TATA with Lockheed Martin in favor of the production of the American F-21. Airbus is looking for a partner in the field. India is in favor of the Eurofighter typhoon, so did Lockheed Martin win the deal for the fourth generation Indian fighters, of course not, but there is a postponement of the settlement until next year
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Gomig-21

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Excellent stuff, @sami_1 . Very enjoyable reading all the details of your posts. I also have a habit of writing long posts lol but I think mine are a bit more boring than yours since I bring mostly technical stuff about certain pictures of certain platforms that some might not know about but most probably do. What you bring is stuff that is as if you are a part of the armed forces and know a lot of the details they are discussing and doing even though you won't let us in on your sources loool. That's ok, you make up for that and then some with the excellent and very reasonable information.

For example, this rather very interesting photo of US F-16 shows them carrying a pair of Russian Kh-31 missiles with the full complement of Russian pylons as well. This is what you call one of the most interesting and incredible integration of a foreign missile on an American f-16 which must also have the proper avionics aspect of the integration in order to fire them accurately since they are precision-guided munitions of the very heavy ordinance type. So what does that say about other countries using separate munitions than US made ones for example on our F-16s?

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Kh-31. Despite this one being inert, it's still the basic setup to use it on non-Russian aircraft as we see in the F-16s.

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So as @Ghostkiller astutely pointed out that the US would never allow any country (especially Egypt being such a threat to the Jewish state which is incomprehensible and super disrespectful as I've explained several times before as if the peace treaty we signed way back in 1979 and Egypt has fully adhered to it from not only a military standpoint, but from a full diplomatic and economic points that it outlined including allowing a large contingent of MFO observers on our land in Sinai means absolutely nothing to the Jews and especially the Americans. What disrespect. Why not station all those a$$holes in the Negev? Why the Sinai when we were the ones that were attacked by those Jews TWICE including once by the UK and France) and that isn't enough to allow the F-16s they supplied to the EAF to have the basic, first class avionics as well as some of the latest medium range missiles in order to have some decent BVR capability and deterrent besides the AIM-7 Sparrow as we don't know if those are the types that have been modified to shoot and forget like the US Navy uses, or if they still are the older style where the pilot or WSO has to constantly illuminate the target until the missile reaches close enough to detonate using its close proximity fuse, making it about as vulnerable for return fire without a question. If it's the former, then that's great! It's almost the equivalent as the AIM-120 C or thereabouts. But if it's the Vietnam era Sparrows, then that's such a brutal insult from the US to Egypt and the EAF MUST seek alternatives whether the Americans like it or not. And one of them is something exactly what we see in the picture you posted above.

They should have a VERY SERIOUS MEETING and have the head of the Egyptian Armu stand up in front of the US military representatives and rip the peace treaty binder in half, throw it into a large brass bowl and light it on fire. Then explain to all those disrespectful American representatives that this is how we feel about the document since you, the US completely disrespect is to no avail, and we've had enough. Not only are you holding back on the F-16 being mediocre at best, but you refuse to perform the Viper upgrade and don't want to supply us with the latest or second to latest BVR missiles and so why should we continue out relationship when you treat us with such filthy disrespect. Boy that would clearly send the message and most definitely don't EVER bring up the useless F-15s as if you're going to give us a birthday cake without candles.

Also, there are 17 Su-35SEs in our hangars already and we will be receiving the rest of them and will be putting them to use immediately and if you wish to impose CAATSA on one of your BEST Middle East allies because we wish to improve our air force and you are only catering to the chicken sh*t Jew state by truing to prevent that, well, we are prepared for any consequences since the last thing on our minds is to have anything to do with those Palestinian-killing thugs and are only interested in improving our self defense capabilities with all these acquisitions which you have NOTHING compared to the veritable Su-35SE, not even the lousy F-15 that is twice as incapable as our immense fleet of MiG-29s. That's what I would tell them at this point along with my famous KICK ROCKS on your way out the door,

Get the contract with China for the veritable BVR super medium to long range missile and with the Chinese-built interchangeable pylon that can be used on any aircraft and any munition out in the market and put them together while informing the US that is exactly what they will be doing because of their refusal to allow Egypt to obtain the AIM-120C-7 at least and if the US has a problem with that, then Egypt needs to stick to its guns and take the threats from the US to prove the point. @The SC posted a great thread on that Chinese interchangeable pylon that works with eastern & western aircraft and munitions that was very informative like all the material he brings. So this might be exactly what the EAF will be doing with the PL-15 and mount them on the F-16.

The other factor that we might not be aware of is that perhaps the US has given the EAF permission to install foreign munitions on a certain batch of its F-16s only because it doesn't wish to supply it with the AMRAAM because of previous 3rd party violations and that is exactly what the EAF is doing in this case. Instead of going out and begging for the Meteor (which I think we all know those days are OVER, there is no more begging of any kind and not that there ever was, but you get my point in that the first time they ask for a certain munition or platform --F-35-- and they get denied, they don't keep pushing the issue and immediately move on which is EXACTLY what the EAF did with the F-35. The minute it was refused. the next day the EAF approached the French and Dassault for the procurement of 24 Rafales, 8 EM single seater and 14 DM dual seater with the full complement of munitions from both types of MICA A2A missiles, both size AASM HAMMER PGMs and a full count of 50 SCALP cruise missiles and the French obliged.

Some don't realize that because of this deal with Egypt and the Rafales, it not only opened the door for Dassault to end up selling the Rafale to many other countries and militaries that could afford it, but it actually BACKFIRED on the US for refusing to sell the F-35 to at least some of these countries that the US really had no reason at all to refuse it to. So, Egypt kicked the door wide open and at the same time has allowed the F-35 to have serious competition in sales. This was nothing short of brilliance by the EAF as you know they were already prepared to deal with Dassault and had all their needed meetings, agreements and necessary paperwork ready so that as soon as the F-35 refusal letter arrived, the EAF chief at the time immediately picked up the phone and called Dassault and made the arrangements for the Rafale deal to happen. Many don't know that, but this is a great example of the brilliant work by the EAF
military personnel to start the great modernization of the EAF along with introducing BVR missiles from France and then later came Russia with the 46 MiG-29M/M2s and the wicked wide variety of weapons those came with including the R-77 and the high boresight R-73 which is a HUGE asset for close dogfighting.

Also, this could be specifically for the MiG-29M/M2. Since it appears the EAF bought a batch of the R-77 with a max range of 80km and for some reason did not purchase the R-77-1 or RVVSD with a max range of 180km and a huge NEZ (I still don't understand why maybe @sami_1 can explain that strange decision that perhaps the cost the Russians wanted was exorbitant) hence they passed for now and figured they would get a much better deal on a large batch with the acquisition of the Su-35?

Either way, with ToT on this incredible missile from China, not only will it replace the option of purchasing the RVVSD from Russia, but will also give the Egyptian military contingent tasked with making the deals for the Rafales and the possible 24 Eurofighter Typhoons that if we're paying 200,000 million Euros for each Typhoon, and Italy will not be able to supply the AIM-120 of course and maybe not even the meteor for obvious reasons, that in order to fulfil such a huge deal now and then add to the aircraft with another future order or insist on an option for 12 to 24 more like the Rafale deal, then the contract for the Typhoons MUST ALLOW the EAF to incorporate its own A2A missiles without any resistance from any of the 4 conglomerates responsible for the creation and approval of sales of the Typhoon. If that's the case, that would be tremendous to see Egypt not only build the missiles itself with small help from China and be able to mount them on the MiG-29M/M2s but also the Typhoons and maybe the Rafales and by the grace of Allah somehow the US agrees to allow them on at least the block 52s, that would be incredible! Sorry, another long post! :D

BTW, this is excellent news! Great choice by the EAF despite the US element but I do prefer to see the EAF deal with many other possibilities for munitions than being stuck with just US ones or in the case of the Tejas (which I really thought was going to win the LIFT competition and glad it didn't even though I am super impressed with what the Indians have done with that aircraft and we could've learned A LOT from them and that ToT) but sorry to say, that aircraft is ingested with Israeli punk junk baloney poney that would;ve created a lot more headaches than this KA-50 Golden Eagle from the excellent precision performers in the South Koreans, Maybe we can collaborate of other things with the Indians that are not infested with Israeli crap and that we know even if the Indians ratted us out to the Israelis that it wouldn't matter if we can make adjustments.

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They even look great!
 
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Gomig-21

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Medusa and now Mina 2022. Wow honestly @Gomig-21 @Foinikas

You know what, perhaps now that Medusa has gained so much popularity and the US has stuck itself into the exercise which really was only between Greece, Cyprus and Egypt that they created Mina and just called it a weapons school exercise with JTAC even though the EAF and the HAF performed JTAC exercises as a huge part of the exercise and they wanted to continue doing that without the participation of the others (maybe not Cyprus since they're almost always partners with these exercises) but wanted to keep the "others out" and so they created Mina? Possibility, right?

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Just to show how important these JTAC exercises are for these two Air Forces, they performed them in almost every Medusa and others like Bright Star and in both countries, Egypt and in Crete.
 

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