I believe Morocco needs them more.. Egypt need some for sure like another squadron ..and it has the infrastructure for them already.. While Morocco can get an Usraeli AESA radar on them so they will be even more advanced than now.... Maybe they will go half and half.. but the RMAF is small and might need more than the EAF .. it is not like EAF by any means..
Egypt does have alot of bulk tho since there is not need for moreI believe Morocco needs them more.. Egyptt need some for sure..and it has the infrastructure for them already..While Morocco can get An Usraeli AESA radar on them so they will me even more advanced than now.... Maybe they will go half and half.. but the RMAF is small and might need more than the EAF .. it is not like EAF by any means..
The transfer won't be easy neither for Morocco nor Egypt..Egypt does have alot of bulk tho since there is not need for more
How come the transfer won't be easyThe transfer won't be easy neither for Morocco nor Egypt..
It was a very ambitious programme : Mirage 2000-9
In some ways, this version is similar to those of the last generation of the Rafale. To confirm this, we just need to look at the list of capabilities that are currently being developed or integrated.
■ Mobility / Attack System:
Modular avionics, new RDY-2 multi-mode radar, digital terrain tracking system, new IMEWS countermeasures, Thomrad radio with frequency evasion and improved coding, glass cockpit with new LCD vision plus night vision goggle compatibility, data link, navigation system Inertial gyroscopic laser, infrared forward navigation (NAHAR) system.
■ In-flight refueling and autothrottle (automatic cruise control).
■ Air Strike: Mica IR and EM.
■ Ground Air Strike:
Conventional bombs, bombs, laser-guided bombs, Black Shaheen cruise missile, reconnaissance pod, and Shehab laser identification pod.
In this program, two specifications are particularly noteworthy in view of the modular avionics of an unusual nature and countermeasures. Aside from the Mirage 2000-9, only the Rafale, F-22, and F-35/JSF aircrafts are equipped with this type of ground-breaking IT architecture. When it comes to countermeasures, it opens up new horizons by adopting interference technology.
Unprecedented conversion process
Production and retrofitting in France and the United Arab Emirates
The upgrade of the UAE AF&AD Mirage 2000 to the Mirage 2000-9 at Al Dhafra called for an unparalleled industrial action plan. Conversion involves two different processes, an overhaul and the retrofit itself, that are combined simultaneously. The retrofit of the first two aircraft was carried out in Istres, France, between 2001 and 2003 in order to validate the industrial process in conditions similar to those to be established at Al Dhafra. Since April 2002, these teams left Istres and were gradually transferred to the United Arab Emirates to begin the conversion of the remaining 28 aircraft.
An ambitious combat program such as the Mirage 2000-9 naturally includes a major component of logistical support. Besides Dassault Aviation, Thales and Snecma Moteurs, many companies such as Smiths, Elettronica, MBDa France / UK / US and Sogitec are directly involved in the following services:
■ Test equipment and spare parts.
■ Prepare task / response systems.
■ User documentation in paper and electronic form.
■ Practical and theoretical training for pilots and mechanics in France and Abu Dhabi.
■ Training Resources - 6 flight simulators and 140 training modules.
This already impressive list would however be incomplete if Level 3 maintenance were not included. As part of the agreement, all necessary resources (boxes, tools, spare parts, documentation) have been installed on the premises of the UAE company, Jamco. Since 2000, this company has been concerned with the maintenance of the third level of airframe equipment (hydraulics, flight controls, oxygen, landing gear, etc.).
The company has created a real transportation program thanks to the "door to door" service. Logistics also includes secure communications between our various establishments and the Al Dhafra region.
Exceptional collaborative effort for success
You've got to transfer their specific logistics and simulators with them.. meaning new training for both Moroccan and Egyptian ground crews.. it might be easier for Egypt since it owns the Rafale.. but much more difficult for Morocco..How come the transfer won't be easy
Could be a logistical nightmare in that wayYou've got to transfer their specific logistics and simulators with them.. meaning new training for both Moroccan and Egyptian ground crews.. it might be easier for Egypt since it owns the Rafale.. but much more difficult for Morocco..
More or less..because by that time the Moroccan Mirage F1s will be retired..they are upgraded to the level of Mirage 2000-5..Could be a logistical nightmare in that way
It would probably even be best to skip it all together or sell it forwardMore or less..because by that time the Moroccan Mirage F1s will be retired..they are upgraded to the level of Mirage 2000-5..
Mirage F1 MF2000 ASTRAC
In 2005, the RMAF started the 350 million euro MF2000 Dassault Mirage F1 upgrade program, which has overhauled 27 Mirage F1s (F1CH, F1EH and F1EH-200) to the level of Mirage 2000-5 to improve survivability for the MF2000..
It is not something to skip.. it is in fact a very valuable and potent fighter...It would probably even be best to skip it all together or sell it forward
Honestly, the EAF needs to do what it needs to do for itself without any regard to the UAE and the UAE's dealings. If the UAE is doing X, that's fine, the EAF can and should do Y if that's the better option for the EAF as it stands. The EAF has been way ahead of the UAEAF since 2013 as far as acquisitions. And it's quite obvious that Egypt's heavy and assertive procurement of the Rafale opened the door for that aircraft in all markets it's currently flourishing in, including India which named the Rafale as the winner of its MMRCA contender but never was able to establish a contract until well after the EAF had bought its first batch of 24 in 2013-15, which then spawned Qatar's purchase of 36 and then almost simultaneously, the EAF buys 30 more of the F-3R Standard almost right along the same time India finally settles its MMRCA contract.
I'm with you on most and disagree on some!Honestly, the EAF needs to do what it needs to do for itself without any regard to the UAE and the UAE's dealings. If the UAE is doing X, that's fine, the EAF can and should do Y if that's the better option for the EAF as it stands. The EAF has been way ahead of the UAEAF since 2013 as far as acquisitions. And it's quite obvious that Egypt's heavy and assertive procurement of the Rafale opened the door for that aircraft in all markets it's currently flourishing in, including India which named the Rafale as the winner of its MMRCA contender but never was able to establish a contract until well after the EAF had bought its first batch of 24 in 2013-15, which then spawned Qatar's purchase of 36 and then almost simultaneously, the EAF buys 30 more of the F-3R Standard almost right along the same time India finally settles its MMRCA contract.
Now the UAE goes out and buys 80 F4 Rafales because you know there is some issue with that POS F-35, without a doubt and suddenly we're begging to be recipients for their fleet of left-over Mirage-2000/9's?
What Egypt and the EAF need to do ATM is essentially look within, not look to what the UAE is going to be scrapping off. There are some MAJOR issues at hand in the EAF that need addressing immediately before one even thinks outside of anything involving the EAF specifically..
1) The current, and future acquisition status of the SU-35's to me, is the most concerning question at hand. The answer to that is the most important at the moment, not who's going to get the UAE's M2K's/9?! Once that's figured out, then the rest can be decided but IMO, even with either SU-35 scenario, I can confidentially say that the UAE Mirages 2Ks do not belong in the EAF even if they are offered for 0 $.
The old school would undoubtedly say "oh the EAF doesn't owe anyone any explanation and in the military we trust blah blah blah. Well, guess what bro, I call bull shit and a half! These aren't the old days and what we were promised as a fully purchased fleet of anywhere from 26 to 29 or even 30 of the latest and greatest SU-35SEs which were not only painted and tested, they were supposedly in the process of delivery!!!! A7A!? Eh el 5alwassa el metnaka de? lmao!?!??! I mean seriously?! WTF is going on with those aircraft? We even saw the news of Shoukry going to the US to meet that little scrawny rat Blinken specifically about CAATSA and they never gave us a single bit of news regarding the outcome?! I looked in every single trustworthy Arabic source and there was NOTHING! Shame on them. This is the crap of the old days we despised with a passion and never thought we would see that crap again. That is the number 1 priority right now is to figure out where the EAF stands with the procurement of the 29 Su-35SE.
2) For the sake of discussion, let's assume that they're still in the works (which I do find a bit hard to believe at this point and am quite disappointed that the brass wasn't able to work the US out of the grips it had on it) and that the EAF has lost quite possibly its best, or 2nd best aircraft which was going to open the door wide open for much bigger and better things. Ultimately, those were the much more important elements to the Su-35SE deal than the aircraft itself. So the EAF has lost A LOT in this by succumbing to the US. Shame on them again. The hypersonic missiles, weapons in general, 5th and 6th gen technology and aircraft, drones, lasers, ToT, Su-57/75 and the list is beyond impressive, all lost because of the lack of leadership. Shameful and when we praise, we praise and defend and give them their due. But when they fail so extraordinarily like this, they need to be piled on like they deserve it, especially when they don't have the courage to tell us what the status is. And before anyone gets on their high horse, yes, we do deserve to hear the status because we support them.
3) Now that we know the Su-35SE has most likely canned and was buried in the desert sand, it's time to look at other alternatives. While the EAF is still no slouch as far as the Rafale is concerned and will in fact end up with 54 aircraft which is no small amount either, they don't need the UAE's charity of the 2009s. And I'll tell you why.
Another member who was pretty knowledgeable but had a bad attitude before he left made a very important point regarding the EAF's procurement of the MiG-29M/M2. He questioned the future outlook of that aircraft. We knew it was morphing into the MiG-35 and eventually absorbing 5th generation elements etc. and that at the time, it made a very, very, very decent and rapid replacement for the old MiGs and F-7s and such aircraft that needed quick modernization in the fleet plus open the future doors we just mentioned. The F-16 has similar qualities as well, obviously since both were molded around the same time and from almost the same cloth. Not to mention that along with the Rafale, it suddenly gave the EAF BVR capability. An important factor but I don't give that much credence as many on this forum do. After decades of understanding numerous factors and tactics in the field while at the same time, talking to actual pilots, BVR is great but it's not the do all end all. That said, at least the question of where was the MiG-29M/M2 going within the EAF's future was answered and satisfactorily.
Now we knew where the EAF was moving and structuring which was an excellent plan of action and coming together very nicely until the Su-35 FIASCO! And I'm putting that lightly TBH with you, my bro. It's a disaster of epic proportions but just like almost anything else, when one door slams shut, another almost always opens up.
I'm sure you remember my insistence on retiring the entire current fleet of EAF Mirage 2000s (which IMO, if they even reached 15 active ones would be a miracle in its own. I honestly think the number is barely around 10 active units. That said, why put so much stock into such an old platform? Even the UAE ones coming in (if that is the case), why accept them if even the UAE is pushing them aside?
Yes, there's a major reason for that in that the platform is literally obsolete in more ways than one. Yeah I know we all love the old delta beauty and all that good stuff but why is our direction lower in aspect ratio than the UAE's? Wasn't it bad enough when our F-16s were pushed and relegated to recon duties in Yemen because the block 40s they sent there were so missing & lacking compared to the Saudi F-15s, the UAE's block 60 and especially the Saudi Typhoons? That was a MAJOR kick in the teeth and a huge embarrassment to the EAF. Now had they sent the Blck 52s, they would've had a lot more to play with, but they didn't for certain reasons and those reasons show them as not nearly at the same level interoperability-wise to the RSAF and UAE platforms. They had the Rafales to send but they didn't and were probably weary of throwing that bird in the furry at the time as they probably weren't ready, as well as the GCC birds in general were all US-built ones including the E3 Sentry AWACs the RSAF AND the UAE were probably using that as well and it made for a little difficult EAF integration, including with the Rafale into a series of war dangerous war sorties without a lot of preliminary work that they just didn't have the time for.
So, that brings me back to my suggestion to you and anyone else interested here in this critical subject about what to do with the 10 EAF Mirage 2000s (0) and I say 0 because they were the first to be built. They simply get folded in half and put away for a rainy day if needed and now without the loss of the monetary aspect of the $2.2 billion dedicated to the Sukhois or maybe less because the EAF will have to assume some responsibility for the cowardness they've displayed against the US and lost the SU-35 and will have to pony up some percentage of cash to the Russians, but still, will save some money and we can guess somewhere around half.
Ok, now with $1 billion saved and the Italian offer of 24 Eurofighter Typhoon Tranch 4 with the latest and greatest equipment (including the terrific IRST-SL A2A BVR missile AND METEOR) and AESA radar in the CAPTOR E and a slew of deadly weaponry including the terrific, towed decoys and EW suite and PLUG THEM RIGHT INTO THE MIRAGE 2000 CAVE!!!! That is what they need to do and do it immediately along with the rest of the Italian mega deal to take advantage of any and all the superb, priced down equipment Italy was willing to offer in that deal.
THAT is where the EAF needs to smarten up and go out and get the BEST, just like the UAE and Saudiya (and even Egypt) does except every once in a while, you hear these stories about going BACKWARDS and nothing drives me crazier!
This is what they need to do and let Morrocco be more than happy to absorb the entire fleet of UAE M2Ks from the UAE (if it wants and makes more sense to them) and stay away from the mentality of scraps. Be on par or better and now the EAF can get in there and be interoperable on several levels, not just in one. This is the answer now with the SU-35SE blown to smithereens thanks to the disappointing lack of solid and strong leadership.
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These are mostly all the British ones which are no good and we would want nothing to do with them, sorry. But their Google pics are nice enough. These Brit platforms are half used and old Tranches that negate a huge part of the primary concept I am trying to convey of the "latest and greatest" in all aspects of acquiring the latest and greatest in aviation technology aspect ratios to your surrounding peers.
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The Saudis were on it from the start. The way they crossed their Typhoons with their huge fleet of F-15s and their ELINT/SIGINT/AWACs was remarkable to say the least and THAT is EXACTLY what the EAF needs to do, not accept charity just for the sake of charity or adding to current rosters (which at first makes a lot of sense but is the WORST thing to do) or expanding a dying breed? De 7agat men khara ya3ni bsra7a.
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And the best part of all this is the specific duties of the Egyptian Mirage 2000s as special operations fighter units engaged in secret warfare and unknows to many missions (especially headed westward) etc. will be taken over about as easily and simply as chewing bubble gum with these beauties in the Typhoons. (How many times have we seen them without their colors and insignias? Because they're actively doing the really dirty work. So why not award them with the best of the best? And then some! Then in one hour, they can be retrofitted to engage in large, 20-ship formations with Rafales and AWACs and interoperable IFF and SATCOMs as well as share pods and several links for missile course adjustments with just about any local or GCC aircraft. This is what needs to be done. Sorry for the lengthy post, but who's with me and if you're against me, please do say why.
Yeah no, egypt ain't giving up the su35 se all for nothing, wouldn't make sense since Russia is the closest to egypt militarily speaking. Egypt is one of only 2 nations in the world to have top access to Russian military news and tech, the other is China. The top brass knows more than us, so they probs have an ace up their sleeves. Possibly gonna take em in once things get more dicey in the political world as a distraction.I'm with you on most and disagree on some!
First of all I'm not that pessimistic about the SU-35 SEs.. Maybe Sisi wants to show them at the opening of new capital.. or many other valuable reason(s)..Unless the US have agreed on the sale of the F-35 to Egypt.. which sounds and seems a lil" farfetched ..
There is also the K-52K, the T-90 MS, the Mistral equipments that we haven't heard more of for a while, but we do know one thing is that the Egyptian armed forces are very discreet about their systems, sometimes for years.. till they appear in exercises and fully operational.. The Tor and the Buk are good examples.. I see the delay concerning these (delayed deliveries) systems is primarily due to integration in the C-4I and C-5I.. This alone takes hundreds of thousands if not millions of programming lines..
Second The Emarati Mirage 2k9 are very modern and quite sophisticated (but the rumors about Morocco getting all 68 of them might have been initiated by the refusal of Egypt to show interest in them..).. I would be good to see the EAF with 2 squadrons of the Mirage (if the EAF see it fit).. especially for those anonymous missions.. this will not take from the value of procuring the Italian Typhoons who can be used in more demanding missions.. it is just a positive plus..