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Gomig-21

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Love it. We knew they were going to work something out with the French but 30 is a very off number. We need details on if that included the option for 12 which really makes this an 18 aircraft deal which explains the pretty decent deal since those 12 were bought for the original price is my guess. And you're right, it seems that all the Mubarak decades created great negotiators in the EGY military if you look at the MASSIVE amount of armament they're buying in just the past 8 years. Hard to believe that we're the 3rd largest importer of military equipment around the world with all these mega shmega deals worth hundreds of billions of dollars and Euros.

Now the count is 54 Rafales if the rumor was that the one that crashed has been replaces. That is a much better count of those magnificent aircraft whish should be the R now, no, which should be automatically set up to fire the Meteor which according to the source is part of the $200 million allotted for weaponry for this deal. Weapons for 30 Rafales you would think with the Meteors going at $20 million a piece should be easily somewhere around 500 Euros.

Now we'll have to see how that affects the certain beautiful potent aircraft in the Italian deal.

Is Typhoon deal off?
According to Reuters, they certainly are still on. :-)
 
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Gomig-21

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I say still get they Typhoons and who gives a flying rigging pile of steaming fresh cow patty what the expert PDF members think and keep repeating the same BS about logistical nightmares and all that frankly idiotic mumbo jumbo jively blibley.

For close to 40 years, the EAF operated 20 of the first batch of Mirage 2000 export models and kept them in full secrecy for specific mission which two were fully armed about to make sure the Sirte Red Line was obeyed by Egyptian powers AND, the subhuman cretins in Sinai whom are filming old stuff and have been tremendously and VISCIOUSLY subdued (unfortunately at a very high human cost which is another factor and subsect we should discuss because I really don't like how many great men and soldiers they've lost to these simpleton lowlife creeps and why they don't accept the US offered COIN training and are doing it on their own and getting excellent results al be it at a VERY high and unacceptable cost but I'm not happy why they refuse the best help in that field to reduce the unexpected casualties.)

Back to on point, they last pics released by the cretin scum of being swarmed by Egyptian forces was a picture of 2 Mirage 2K flying super fast and low and probably dropping all sorts of ordinances to blowing them and their huts to pieces.

That means the EAF has a long, long long time standing and adopted a certain doctrine that only 20 jets are put aside in a super elite squadron or two for these ultra special missions. You rarely see them performing joint missions with other types and not even the Mirage Vs.

So, that is a GREAT role for the 24 Typhoons to replace the Mirage 2Ks. Think about that for a minute. I'm telling you, the Typhoons will be part of this order and the $2000's might end up being part of the deal to Pakistan along with the Vs, or stay where thy are but I think it's time for even them to go. Typhoons are much better than those older version of the first Mirage 2000s ever built. Hard to believe that even 15 of them are still flying.
 
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Gomig-21

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Check out this radar cross section for these specific aircraft. The Typhoon is stealthier than the Rafale?

1620094409282.png
 
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Gomig-21

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1620159641712.png


Interesting where they place the Meteors. In this case they've installed MICA IRs but that is the mounting spot for the Meteors. Those missiles have to drop considerably away from the aircraft before igniting their rockets given that indent slot at the engine nacelles and so tightly placed between the fuel tanks as well.

1620159775352.png
 

Philip the Arab

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According to Vergennes on Defenceh*b

"The contract also includes the upgrade of the Rafale currently in service within the EAF to the F3R standard."

I asked him for a source and he said this

"Someone very close to Dassault (in fact working for it) on a French forum. Egypt planned for a long time to upgrade them to the F3R standard anyway."

@The SC @Gomig-21
In case you guys didn't see this post.
 
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Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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I say still get they Typhoons and who gives a flying rigging pile of steaming fresh cow patty what the expert PDF members think and keep repeating the same BS about logistical nightmares and all that frankly idiotic mumbo jumbo jively blibley.
IMO ... it'd be better to use the Typhoon money to build the Rafale fleet into an even larger force.

I get the rationale of maintaining diverse supply lines, but having more of a certain fighter could give you a deep support chain in terms of spare parts, engines, weapons, etc. You would also build a stockpile of reserves for attrition, losses, downtime, etc.
 

Gomig-21

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I hope Egypt contracts UAE to install weapons if the French allow it.

What I really wish for is a non MTCR cruise missile for deepstrike that is a joint program between all major Arab countries.
That would be quite something, wouldn't it. I doubt les Francais would approve the integration of other weapons' from another manufacturer and lose out on selling theirs, that's usually the @#$#$% problem.

question is TRANCHE 3 OR TRANCHE 4 TYPHOONS for Egypt ? it is an excellent air-air platform

decoy on the typhoon
View attachment 740427
TRANCHE 4, my friend. CAPTOR-E AESA radar AND, I will look into it some more because according to my post with the CG image of the radar and its connections to the canards of the EFT, they might be installing L-band AESA radars in the leading edge of the little wing so that when the mechanically steered CAPTOR turns left and is within line of sight of communicating with this supposed, unknown item in the canard, I'm only assuming that it increases the CAPTOR's azimuth to that one direction and the other. In other words, the radar turns maximum to one side, L-band AESA on the leading edge of the canard picks it up and increased the azimuth of spread of the radar even more to that the pilot can see even further behind him on each side with the help of this new thing that is going on. Or, I could be wrong about the whole thing but I don't think so, As soon as I have some time, I'll find out and let you folks know.

IMO ... it'd be better to use the Typhoon money to build the Rafale fleet into an even larger force.
Well, I see your point and I hate to admit this, but most Egyptians agree with you that the Rafales are better to have at least 80 of them but look at this contract for example. The first aircraft is due to arrive in 3 years!!!! How long do you suppose between the years of negotiating with the French and Dassault to come to an agreement and then wait 5 years for all the aircraft to be delivered and probably without the Meteor? I know my bro @The SC will disagree and say they are a already part of the first order but the French are a bit sneaky and say they need their government approval for the best A2A missiles available to be installed on 54 EAF aircraft that, with all the Russian weapons we're supposed to get probably neutralizes 3/4 of Israel's air force inventory and the Jews are not happy about that and have been strongly lobbying France against providing that missile to Egypt. (PS, when I refer to them as "Jews" it's not out of any form of disrespect or anything like that. When we were fighting them and peace dealing with them, everyone always referred to them as the Jews and sometimes Israelis. Nothing derogatory whatsoever.

So, the Italians are very eager to make mega deals and they DID NOT remove the VLS launcher spaces in the two magnificent Berghamini FREMMs for Egypt like the French who BLOCKED the entire room because it can be used to install land attack VLC missiles. The Italians said we will leave them empty and we assume you will request VLS cells for Aster 30 ship to air missiles and if you do something different.........we don't know anything about it al bruta facha!

That said, they are a pleasurer to work for and the Typhoon, look at my post with the RCSs for each aircraft and while that is almost impossible to calculate without millions of dollars of equipment and testing each aircraft, the Typhoon is considerably stealthier than the Rafale!!?? 2.0 Meters squared for the Rafale against 0.5M squared for the EFT!!!?? That is a HUUUUUUUUGE difference when we get to these miniscule numbers amd all the other fusion electronics to fool even the best radars out there.

I get the rationale of maintaining diverse supply lines, but having more of a certain fighter could give you a deep support chain in terms of spare parts, engines, weapons, etc. You would also build a stockpile of reserves for attrition, losses, downtime, etc.
Here's what I would do and I could be right but most likely wrong lol. Keep making the Rafales the priority, but get on the Tyhoon band wagon. Order them with all that radar stuff I listed and the awesome decoy you pointed out which I do believe the Rafale and some other Russian & American jet deploy similar decoys (I believe the F/A-18 Growler has a similar decoy) which I think shakes the PKZ to the core, especially on the AIM-120's but the AIM-9X has super anti jamming and decoy separation technology in it. It is probably the BEST short range missile out there closely followed by the MICA ER and the MICA NG (next generation will be as good if not better Thant the AIM-9X) Naturally with all this stuff, of course the Americans don't want to give us any of their powerful missiles, it will make us a regional powerhouse possibly leveling Israel even if we offered them (the Americans) our daughters, our camels and flying carpets.

Back to my point, take the 24 EFT, retire the 20 Mirage 2000 that have been around since 1986 and whatever secret role they were involved in would now become the EFT's role. Easy-peasy. No one says the EAF order of fighter jets has to follow a common strategy that most air forces INCLUDING Pakistan uses. I love the fact that they kept the 2Ks out of the limelight for decades because guess what, with 80+ Mirage with 30 upgraded with the HORUS upgrade in France with an Excellent new radar but I bet those Mirage 2Ks that are flyable are probably down to a lower count or so by now. Probably between 10 and 15 at the most.

Their plan, at least to me because of the way they kept them in total secrecy was as a fighter jet special operations unit designated for certain combat missions that they're tailored for and if one of them gets lost or shot down, it would be less impactful than say a Rafale or MIG-29M/35 or Su-35S. I would LOVE to see them replace the Mirage 2000s as an elite, super secret unit and even promote their numbers and I bet the Italians can strongly leverage a powerful weapons package for them including the Typhoons. TRUST ME, logistics and maintenance issues will be NOTHING believe me PDF members just think that all air forces should have the same 1 or 2 or 3 maximum aircraft or it will be a (the most famous words "a logistical nightmare" and a disaster. Says who? We've been doing it with older platforms for decades and are VERY experienced at it, What's your and other members' opinion of that tactic, Typhoon for Mirage 2K?
 
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The SC

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According to Vergennes on Defenceh*b

"The contract also includes the upgrade of the Rafale currently in service within the EAF to the F3R standard."

I asked him for a source and he said this

"Someone very close to Dassault (in fact working for it) on a French forum. Egypt planned for a long time to upgrade them to the F3R standard anyway."

@The SC @Gomig-21
In case you guys didn't see this post.
Those are known news Bro..

This deal of 30 Rafale fighters between Egypt and France, which was announced today, is a cause of concern in many countries, especially in India and Greece, and people were left with a piece of paper and a pen and a calculator.
Also, the doors were opened to many words about France and the countries that bought the Rafale, especially that in countries among them there are great suspicions of corruption, such as # Qatar.

Qatar bought 24 fighters for 6.3 billion euros, meaning one for 263 million euros.

India bought 36 fighters for 7.87 billion euros, which means 219 million euros each.

Greece, France’s ally in NATO, bought 18 fighters, including 12 users, and only 6 grandfathers, for 2.5 billion euros, meaning in the hearts of some of them, it falls to them at 139 million euros.

Egypt still bought 30 fighters for 3.7 billion euros, meaning one at 123 million euros, but I mean, not even the price of the user who bought Greece, nor even the price of half one of the Qatari deal.

The most important clause of the agreement: the deal comes with a French government loan that is not commercial, and the payment over 10 years, with negligible interest, and the first installment to be paid after receiving the first batch of the fighters.

Factors for the successful Egyptian negotiation:

- Egypt's name in the arms market. (As always on time in its payments)

- Egypt was the first to open the Rafale door to the global arms market, so India, Qatar and Greece deals followed.

- The maneuvers of the Egyptian negotiators and negotiation on other airplane types (Typhoon in this instance) at the same time to obtain the best prices.

- Expanding the negotiations circle at the level of companies and heads of boards of directors to the ministerial and then the presidential level.



* And this is just the deal with Dassault, there are other deals with Airbus and Naval Group to be heard about soon..
 
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